POSTGAME: Rd 17 vs St Kilda

[kev martin 9,859]

Just started watching the pre-game and match from Ch 7. May and Melky having a laugh together, warms the heart.

Also, loved what May was saying about his relationship with Lever entailed.

Edited July 9, 2023 by kev martin

[Macca 16,958]

For the benefit of @DeeSpencer @Gorgoroth (and numerous others)

Clanger Count 57

Notables

Grundy 5

Viney 5

ANB 5

Sparrow 5

Jordon 5

Brayshaw 1

By the way, I reckon it's perfectly fine to point out the errors made by players but, context must be provided and a consistent argument put forward as well

Also, the good play from the players who make errors should be acknowledged as well.  Do that, and you will be applying fairness

Face it, it's an error filled sport and all the players make errors week to week.  There's a lot of pressure & congestion and clean disposal to another player is often a difficult task.  Plus, the coaching wants the players to take risks

So, in my view, kicking the ball down the line and not taking a risk inboard is in many ways a clanger.  It's certainly (often) a wasted disposal

Dump kicking the ball to the forward pocket instead of taking a risk and passing to a forward?  To me that's often a clanger and another wasted disposal

So the DE rating/clanger count is skewed anyway as not enough nuance is applied

Thankfully, our forward connection yesterday was improved.  However, we still have a long way to go in order to have a terrific forward connection

Against the best, our delivery into the forward line needs to be at least very good

Again, from an overall perspective Brayshaw played a very good game.  He was one of our best ... however, he's not perfect and makes the odd error

But those errors are often blown out of proportion and often exaggerated.  Other players get off the hook for making the same types of errors

[DeeSpencer 25,653]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Brayshaw 1

By the way, I reckon it's perfectly fine to point out the errors made by players but, context must be provided and a consistent argument put forward as well

Not sure I criticised Brayshaw this week but clearly hospital handballs don’t count as clangers.

Gus was so dangerous he was like a human eScooter out there early in the game, but overall played pretty well. And he certainly wasn’t the only one making errors. 

[The heart beats true 18,123]

Deleted

Edited July 9, 2023 by The heart beats true

[Macca 16,958]

Further to the skewed clanger count ... why should a player who is kicking the ball to his teammate be registered with a clanger if his teammate is outmarked in a contest?

It's a load of nonsense as the player kicking the ball often has no other choice but to kick it to that player (pressure/congestion etc)

Now, if it's a misdirected kick, that's a different story

So, often a so-called clanger should not even be registered as inefficient (to the disposer of the ball) The player who is receiving the ball (but not winning the ball) should be the one copping the heat

A great example are forwards who play from behind.  That is a massive error and if that was registered as a clanger, some of our forwards would have large clanger counts

[kev martin 9,859]

Thought Melky was still showing a bit of toe. Loved his speed and some of his forward craft when an open forward area. We seemed to have created that space after stoppages in their forward area and the backs kicking it around and backwards, pulling the game towards them before finding a corridor. 

Great that we have a few more clubs in the arsenal now. We'll done coaches.

Edited July 9, 2023 by kev martin

[kev martin 9,859]

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

 A great example are forwards who play from behind.

Thought we had a few more playing infront this week. Especially in the first half, as we got to the dump or short kick, first.

Much better than the last few games, where we were second to the ball. Must have been looked at in their reviews.

Edited July 9, 2023 by kev martin

[Macca 16,958]

23 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Not sure I criticised Brayshaw this week but clearly hospital handballs don’t count as clangers.

Gus was so dangerous he was like a human eScooter out there early in the game, but overall played pretty well. And he certainly wasn’t the only one making errors. 

See there you are doing it again ... exaggeration to try and prove your point

You are prone to exaggeration and embellishment

You're like Demonland's shock-jock

So would you like to point out all the errors made by all our players yesterday

One by one will be fine

I'd like you to do that as it would effectively highlight how Brayshaw is never our chief culprit with regards to errors

So do your best work, DS

Edited July 9, 2023 by Macca

[D4Life 2,469]

Saints are well disciplined, with a solid backline, within a goal per week of the best rated backlines. They definitely brought their best effort.

Demons below their best, down a little in confidence, but some positive signs: 
- Trac four straight,

- May rock solid,

- Saints only scored 58 points, our defence is finals strong,

- ANB strong start to game,

- Langdon a bit more involved,

- Sparrow, Rivers, Brayshaw, JJ through the middle, providing options particularly when Oliver gets back,

- Major room for improvement across the park. Kossie, Spargo, to lift, BBB show some positive signs,

- Max/Grundy combo can improve, but not as bad as many make out,
- JVR to come in with a little extra output for last 6 weeks,

We’ve got 6-7 weeks to bring it together!

[Macca 16,958]

Just now, kev martin said:

Thought we had a few more playing infront this week. Especially in the first half, as we got the dump or short kick first.

Much better than the last few games, where we were second to the ball. Must have been looked at in their reviews.

Yesterday was better but for the last 2 seasons, from an overall perspective, a number of our forwards have often played from behind

So it's about what is going to happen in the future.  Are our forwards going to be well equipped against the best teams?

And can we consistently deliver the ball well into the forward line? (again, against the best teams)

Time will tell, Kev

[Macca 16,958]

I also believe that many here view Brayshaw as a player who should not make errors

He's very sure with his disposals once he gets into the swing of things.  But he is often quite scratchy early (like a lot of other players)

But that's Gus, that's who and what he is.  He's not pure A grade so he's going to make errors like all the other players

But for whatever reason, his errors get called out more so than anyone else.  It's quite a perculiar viewpoint but it has happened to other players previously

Notably Sylvia (RIP), Moloney, Watts, Tyson, Toumpas, ANB etc etc.  None of whom who were ever A grade players

Just one out of the box at a time

[leave it to deever 17,511]

Given saints ruck had more disposals and marks than max and Grundy combined, do we need to play Grundy?

[DeeSpencer 25,653]

Is it possible Macca is Angus Brayshaw? Or maybe one of the brothers? Hamish, is that you? Hello Hamish?

He’s more fascinated with defending him than the AFL media are overhyping a good role player.

Edited July 9, 2023 by DeeSpencer

[kev martin 9,859]

1 minute ago, leave it to deever said:

Given saints ruck had more disposals and marks than max and Grundy combined, do we need to play Grundy?

Yes, Grundy is a needed player.

Come the finals, the talls get bigger as the games gets to the pointy end.

They are still trying out the best way to use Max and Grundy, so need to keep working on it.

[Macca 16,958]

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Is it possible Macca is Angus Brayshaw? Or maybe one of the brothers? Hamish, is that you? Hello Hamish?

He’s more fascinated with defending him than the AFL media are overhyping a good role player.

Hilarious

You're getting desperate now DS

I'm still waiting on your detailed error analysis.  And don't leave anyone out, even your favourites

Do you have favourites?  You certainly have a multitude in your gunsights

I'll remind you that you wanted to dump 7 players after the narrow loss last week

That's what is best described as a complete overreaction

But that's what you do

 

[titan_uranus 24,990]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

If you're not winning flags what's the point? This isn't an up and coming team where you can try to find the positives, we are smack bang in the middle of the premiership window and we are playing like also rans. Good to get the win of course but the way we're playing still worries me.

Losses to Cats and GWS let a lot of air out of the tyres after the great win against the Pies, they'll need to do more than just get past an undermanned Saints side to win back that trust, starting with the Lions on Friday.

 

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

This.

The acceptance of mediocrity by many here is alarming.

Our list is as good as it will be for at least 20 years, right now we are underperforming.

We need more flags to capitalise on this generational talent.

[censored] I hate these sorts of posts. 

For starters, @fr_ap didn’t say they’d be happy if we don’t win the flag. 

It’s not “accepting mediocrity” to enjoy a H&A win even if there is room for improvement.

If all you do is sit there and derive joy from flags, you are going to be disappointed 99% of the time as an AFL supporter because flags are so hard to win. 

It’s perfectly reasonable to enjoy a H&A win, still want us to do better, still consider our overall goal is to win the flag, and still be disappointed if we don’t win the flag. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by titan_uranus

[leave it to deever 17,511]

6 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Yes, Grundy is a needed player.

Come the finals, the talls get bigger as the games gets to the pointy end.

They are still trying out the best way to use Max and Grundy, so need to keep working on it.

Hi Kev. Appreciate the input.

In the pre season and early games, the combo was working well. 

It's true, finals are different beasts but do you think at present, they both need to lift?

[leave it to deever 17,511]

Just watched most of the replay and I've got to say credit needs to go towards the Saints intensity and tackling.

They played a very defensive game and shut down a lot of our handballing and kicking down the middle. Their kids did very well. 

Edited July 9, 2023 by leave it to deever

[The heart beats true 18,123]

I accept mediocrity all the time.

Right now I could be reading Ulysses by James Joyce. Instead I’m reading various opinions about Angus Brayshaw.

[kev martin 9,859]

5 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Hi Kev. Appreciate the input.

In the pre season and early games, the combo was working well. 

It's true, finals are different beasts but do you think at present, they both need to lift?

Brody needs to stop fumbling as much, ground balls and marks, and Gawns needs to get back to his marking best, supporting the backs, and can improve his tap work.

[whatwhat say what 22,732]

6 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I accept mediocrity all the time.

Right now I could be reading Ulysses by James Joyce. Instead I’m reading various opinions about Angus Brayshaw.

yeah, but which makes you happier

[The heart beats true 18,123]

Just now, whatwhat say what said:

yeah, but which makes you happier

Sadly we both know the answer.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

I don’t reckon Goodwin got enough credit for the win last night.

He backed in Viney, Brayshaw, Sparrow and Jordan, and kept Tracc forward for 80% of that game. With Oliver out that’s our 2 best midfielders down.

Simon held his nerve, and in the end Tracc was the difference in the game. 

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

1 minute ago, The heart beats true said:

I don’t reckon Goodwin got enough credit for the win last night.

He backed in Viney, Brayshaw, Sparrow and Jordan, and kept Tracc forward for 80% of that game. With Oliver out that’s our 2 best midfielders down.

Simon held his nerve, and in the end Tracc was the difference in the game. 

See, still inflexible and stubborn tho'.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Engorged Onion

[leave it to deever 17,511]

13 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I accept mediocrity all the time.

Right now I could be reading Ulysses by James Joyce. Instead I’m reading various opinions about Angus Brayshaw.

Gus in boots?