I want us to win a flag, not play tiddleywinks & just make up the numbers. We will never win a flag with players like Bruce who don't put their body on the line when it's required.

I worked very closely to the players for 6years of AFL & I actually know what the Difference is between the successfull sides & the also ran's.

What's your pedigree based in, Pal..............

I can see why u dont work with them anymore

Did he really get warning for saying "Bruce is a disgrace"?

No that's not the only reason jacka. And for the record, "Bruce is a disgrace" was only the beginning of the sentence which he was warned about. It's what followed that will not be tolerated on this site.

People forget that we're a self funded website and have standards to uphold. We've had issues in the past with ex and current players' lawyers giving us a call, and we will protect our interests vigorously.

thanks.

People forget that we're a self funded website and have standards to uphold. We've had issues in the past with ex and current players' lawyers giving us a call, and we will protect our interests vigorously.

thanks.

Timely advice Finks. Maybe some people need to go back and read the conditions they've agreed to abide by. This forum gives us all the opportunity to express our views, mostly in a civilised way - if you have to resort to abuse and personal denigration I would suggest its because either you lack the capacity to express your opinions coherently and succinctly or its because you are frustrated that others don't accept your arguments - which in turn may very well be a direct result of the previous cause.

Personally I have no problem with people expressing opinions that I don't agree with so long as they do so with courtesy and respect. Saying "player X is a disgrace" or "X doesn't deserve to play for the club" is not being courteous or respectful. Players try their best and I seriously doubt that someone like me is in a position to pass judgement on such things as the courage or commitment required to play at the highest level.

to anyone who thinks Bruce even has a remotely good kick, honestly, watch some games. The guy must drop the ball crooked on his foot or something.

Bruce + Miller + 1st rd pick for Judd

lol

serious...

How can one of our best players be a bad kick I dont get it? One of the biggest aspects of AFL is kicking so how can u be one of our best and be a shocking kick? Doesnt make sense

who said anything about him being our best player? I think he is far from it. He gets the possies, yeah, but I think that he has probably "won" a game for us maybe 1 or 2 times in his entire career. He just does nothing, as a leader should, when we are down. Yeah, he gets 25-30 possies, but how many of those are contested possestions, or handballs to a teammate running clear 40 metres out from goal, or a direct pass into our 50 to a leading foward???? Not many.

I do not go into bashing Melbourne players but u cannot seriously say Godfrey is better than Bruce. Godfrey is hard at the ball but his skills are nowhere near as sleek as Bruce's

i don't recall ever saying godfrey is better than bruce, but i will always say i believe that godfrey puts in more than bruce. as long as they show pashion for the jumper and each other i'm happy

who said anything about him being our best player? I think he is far from it. He gets the possies, yeah, but I think that he has probably "won" a game for us maybe 1 or 2 times in his entire career. He just does nothing, as a leader should, when we are down. Yeah, he gets 25-30 possies, but how many of those are contested possestions, or handballs to a teammate running clear 40 metres out from goal, or a direct pass into our 50 to a leading foward???? Not many.

umm look at last years stats..... he was in our top everythin

tackles disposals marks and goals.....

he wins us games in every department on the feild.... look at the sydney game he was like the only player leading and marking ....chased and tackled.... second efforts..true leadership

a

s for the tag... bruce cant be tagged.... his aerobic capacity is untouchable no player will go with him.... and u will notice he doesnt go put his body on the line that is not his role in the team e peels of and gets an easy possesion but has the smarts to be 10 metres in the clear.

"won a game for us"

well lets see who has won a game for us ? how many games has brock mclean everyones fav player won for us ? 1 game ..... praise the lord....

jones and bate none?

TJ none

green none

moloney none

Yze YES ... any everyone hates him tooo

neitz and robbo yes....

if its soo easy to get 25-30 possesions why isnt everyone playing footy....

all the experts they would put bruce in their top 50 players in the afl... think wat u like ....ill go with the EXPERTS after all..... we know ur not one

Trav has won us games and almost won the unwinable game against Adelaide in 2002 finals series, he was the one person that got us into this game. The forwards are only as good as their midfield when Trav palys well our forwards kick goals.

The inital post is spot on in regard to Cam Bruce. He consistently shirks going in for the hard ball when needed. This is the issue which stands in way of him being Captain of the club. May have increased since his major shoulder injury but he has always been an outside player.

The other criticism is his poor disposal and non passing to younger players in forward line over last 12 months.

I think both Cam andmost of the commentaors have got sucked in by him racking up lots of possessions each game (ala Joel Bowden). He is named in the best players for MFC almost every week based on high total possessions but being at the game he is not in our best players and has little influence on the performance of the side (tagging aspects aside) for the number of times he gets the ball.

Brad Green also a bit influenced by number of disposals rather than effective disposals.

Compare that with for instance the influence Nathan Jones had on the Game against Port on Sunday.

Cam is a very good player and very important contributer to the team. What is being noted is that he would be a super star if he stepped up in regard to the hard ball and that as one of the leadership group he needs to.

The inital post is spot on in regard to Cam Bruce. He consistently shirks going in for the hard ball when needed. This is the issue which stands in way of him being Captain of the club. May have increased since his major shoulder injury but he has always been an outside player.

The other criticism is his poor disposal and non passing to younger players in forward line over last 12 months.

I think both Cam andmost of the commentaors have got sucked in by him racking up lots of possessions each game (ala Joel Bowden). He is named in the best players for MFC almost every week based on high total possessions but being at the game he is not in our best players and has little influence on the performance of the side (tagging aspects aside) for the number of times he gets the ball.

Brad Green also a bit influenced by number of disposals rather than effective disposals.

Compare that with for instance the influence Nathan Jones had on the Game against Port on Sunday.

Cam is a very good player and very important contributer to the team. What is being noted is that he would be a super star if he stepped up in regard to the hard ball and that as one of the leadership group he needs to.

Do u not watch melbourne games? I have never seen him shirk anything he gives 110%. Nathan Jones is a great player but he is nowhere near in the same league as Bruce

who said anything about him being our best player? I think he is far from it. He gets the possies, yeah, but I think that he has probably "won" a game for us maybe 1 or 2 times in his entire career. He just does nothing, as a leader should, when we are down. Yeah, he gets 25-30 possies, but how many of those are contested possestions, or handballs to a teammate running clear 40 metres out from goal, or a direct pass into our 50 to a leading foward???? Not many.

Yeah ok u think that but know that most experts in footy consider Bruce to be ONE OF OUR BEST players so u are a small minority in that thinking. I dont think they would think that if he couldnt kick

bruce wins almost every 50-50 contest he is involved with and has done so consistently for 5 years now. that is his main asset as a player!

how people can suggests he shirks contests simply has no idea, and honestly must not be watching any of the melbourne games

"won a game for us"

well lets see who has won a game for us ? how many games has brock mclean everyones fav player won for us ? 1 game ..... praise the lord....

jones and bate none?

TJ none

green none

moloney none

Yze YES ... any everyone hates him tooo

neitz and robbo yes....

I seem to remember even if you cant a match not so long ago wherein Green kicked 2 late goals handing us the match...

"won a game for us"

green none

i suppose someone has forgotten the 2000 qualifying final, and i still believe the forward pocket is green's best position. essentially, this post was born of frustration at watching 21 melbourne players put their bodies on the line. in the end, that'd why the, meagre, crowd applauded so vigoursly. however the frustration was generated because while bruce is willing to get the ball, he is not willing to take the punishment. now i understand the benefits of a run and carry player with good disposal, which i reckon bruce usually has. and i can see the benefits to the team with his role, however this role goes out the window when you lead a 2 on 2 race to the ball in the centre of the g, and then go to ground and handball over your head backwards, putting brown against 2. when your number comes up in this game you simply have to go, ala daniel 'for all intensive purposes shaped like a feather' bell who was willing to put his body on the line to stop a goal. i'm not saying bruce is a crap player, and this has not come about because of one game.

I think I am going to puke if I read too many more people claiming Bruce is soft.

Why do people turn on the core nucleus of senior players as if they are the reason we fail. Yes, there are things Cam can improve on. You think he doesn't know that and spend 7 days a week working on it? You think Nathan Jones would be able to have an influence on games without blokes around him?

My favourite is the peanut coodabeens who come on here, put down every reason in the world why Cam is no good, then say trade him for Judd. Yeh, he's crap, but maybe WCE doesn't agree! Ok, ok, we will throw in Wheatley and Ward as a sweetener. John Worsfold would be frothing at the mouth.

Incidentally, how many "hard" balls does Judd get? No more than Bruce - IT'S NOT HIS PRIMARY JOB! Oh, and Cam has laid 25 tackles to Judd's 22, or is that also a cheap stat?

Get off Cam's back, he is easily in our top 5 players this year, and he is certainly not soft.

I think I am going to puke if I read too many more people claiming Bruce is soft.

Why do people turn on the core nucleus of senior players as if they are the reason we fail. Yes, there are things Cam can improve on. You think he doesn't know that and spend 7 days a week working on it? You think Nathan Jones would be able to have an influence on games without blokes around him?

My favourite is the peanut coodabeens who come on here, put down every reason in the world why Cam is no good, then say trade him for Judd. Yeh, he's crap, but maybe WCE doesn't agree! Ok, ok, we will throw in Wheatley and Ward as a sweetener. John Worsfold would be frothing at the mouth.

Incidentally, how many "hard" balls does Judd get? No more than Bruce - IT'S NOT HIS PRIMARY JOB! Oh, and Cam has laid 25 tackles to Judd's 22, or is that also a cheap stat?

Get off Cam's back, he is easily in our top 5 players this year, and he is certainly not soft.

Spot on Choko. I consistently am baffled with the critisicm of Brucey this year. I posted a thread here not long ago that outlined the clear lack of respect for him as a player and the role he plays in our team. He is certaintly not soft, and consistently will put his body on the line. Great stat with the tackles, shows that alot of morons on here know nothing about our team and who should be praised week in and week out for their efforts.

Cam Bruce, you star.

bruce wins almost every 50-50 contest he is involved with and has done so consistently for 5 years now. that is his main asset as a player!

how people can suggests he shirks contests simply has no idea, and honestly must not be watching any of the melbourne games

________________________________________________________

Were you at the Port game? Cam used to be my favourite player. I still like him, but he clearly shirked a contest in that match. I think it was the last qtr - ball kicked to forward pocket. He was opposed by 2 players. He was never going to mark it, but he didn't even make a contest. Effectively stood back and watched.

In that qtr he kicked to Aaron Davey at FF who was outnumbered 3/4 to 1. That possibly wasn't his (Cam's) fault because he looked up and no-one was there other than Aaron. I did think however that Flash made a better attempt to make a contest than his more experienced teammate in the incident referred to above.

bruce was playing with a very sore calf muscle against port and it couldnt have helped his game...

y won't people leave him alone for his performance against port, when he was playing injured, and look back at the past 3 seasons, (including the first 5 rounds of this season), when bruce has consistently been our best player, and has an uncanny ability to win almost every 50/50 challenge against any player in the afl.

bruce is a fantastic player, who would be considered in the top 10 in the afl if his kicking skills were as damaging as kerr, or dal santo. i feel blessed to have him at the club, and tho i rue the fact he doesnt have a fantastic kick, i feel lucky that we have atleast 1 player in our team that can win the ball consistently 25 times a game and consistently be one of the better players on the field.

honestly this 'bruce is soft and shirks contests' is just dispicable and must be coming from 12 year old pimple poppers who just started supported the demons this year...because clearly they arent taking the previous 5 seasons of bruce's performances into consideration!

not one person who has disagreed has yet to actual tackle the issue. you all rant about how commentators view him as great or that he gets touches, neither of which are my concern. i don't care what his tackle count is, a player in the midfield should average 4 a game anyway. none of you ave listed a time where he has put his body on the line for the team. he has been a performer for the club, but again this isn't what i'm bringing into question. and then to pull this stuff about us going for the dees just from this year reeks of someone who is simply here to launch into a fight for the sake of it, attacking those speaking (without any facts about us) and not the original topic.

claiming he 'would be in the top 10' is a useless frame of argument for this debate, as it is not what is in question. he does not win 'almost every' 50-50 contest put to him, his 'hard ball gets' are often handballs to him out of packs, and this is taking his whole career into context, not just the past three years when we have been in good form for the most

This is a little off-topic, but lets try and turn down the hyperbole.

I'm not sure why a player needs to either be brilliant or absolutely terrible in the eyes of many posters.

This thread is an example of that, but so are debates on Miller (if he's not a Riewoldt/Brown class CHF it means he is a complete dud) and every other player.

his 'hard ball gets' are often handballs to him out of packs

So what's the definition of a 'hard ball get' for AFL statistical purposes? Unless you know that we can't discuss the issue on the same basis.

Bruce is currently third on our stats for tackles and leads the 'hard ball get' stat by a fair margin.

This is a little off-topic, but lets try and turn down the hyperbole.

I'm not sure why a player needs to either be brilliant or absolutely terrible in the eyes of many posters.

No, you've got it all wrong! Players can only be stars or duds.

Plus the occasional category of 'good ordinary player'.

Do u not watch melbourne games? I have never seen him shirk anything he gives 110%. Nathan Jones is a great player but he is nowhere near in the same league as Bruce

I definitely attend and intensely watch many Melbourne games - including all the games at the G this year. All of the Demon faithful where we sit have noticed the same thing.Stating you have never seen him shirk anything begs the question whether you have been watching.

BTW I did not say either that Nathan Jones was a great player OR that he was in Cam Bruce's league. The point I was making is that a player's positive contribution to the side performance is properly judged on the result of what he does with the possessions he has not the number of possessions. (Joel Bowden got over 30 possessions against Dee last year in critical night game BUT he was pplaying on Robbo who was BOG!!). There are a lot of very cheap possessions in the backline with all the chipping backwards & tempo foortball. They do not count in determing who plays well.

One of the puzzling things about our team this year (& late last year) is why our experienced players with proven good foot skills continue to kick the ball out on the full along the wing when no pressue and no wind.

(Cam B, Greeny, Yze, TJ included). Is simply not logical at the G as they know it so well.

drop cameron bruce???

surely you are kidding. he has been one of our most consistent players all year. he runs hard all day to get the ball. The team is 0 and 6 and you want to drop one of our leading players? Who would replace him???

The reason he is in the leadership group is because he has played 4-5 years of consistent, high quality football. He is our fittest, most durable player. Perhaps the perfromance of Johnstone should be scrutinised more. Or Sylvia, who put in a number of pathetic attempts on the weekend. Bruce should not be dropped and merely suggesting it is foolish

This thread is laughable at best, who is going to be flavour of the week next week, Neitz back to sandy? Surely not you jest, i wouldn't put it past some.