Hawks on the Slide: How Mitchell is making life hard for himself

[rpfc 28,779]

6 hours ago, DEE fence said:

Bump, watching Mitchell this year, sadly (I hate the Hawks the way Jaded hates Geelong) must disagree. Mitchell going great guns  I think Hawks slide will be short and I think Mitchell is really showing some skills. Check out the latest F2F not just spin  demonstrayed some insight and nouse. If they can get ruck right top 4 next year 2023.

Really upset my hatred for Geelong is not as notable as Jaded’s.

[rpfc 28,779]

Also, Mitchell has won 3 games so let’s not raise our glasses too early…

We may be coronating the next SuperCoach but let’s not rule out a Red Wedding scenario.

[DEE fence 5,039]

2 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Also, Mitchell has won 3 games so let’s not raise our glasses too early…

We may be coronating the next SuperCoach but let’s not rule out a Red Wedding scenario.

Would love Hawks to have a red wedding, but Mitchell has learnt from Voss's mistakes, his leg chain though is ruck structure, McEvoy and Lynch not the answer. I still think Hawks are going to join Brisbane and Freo as principal threats. Saints to dependant on Paddy who is just too banged up for a full season, I think he is a great ruck though. Have done a table of where i think the coaches are at for a laugh. Dogs are done, defensive weaknesses. Collingwood needs someone other than Howe and Grundy also diminishing returns. Yze was just about anointed to a senior role listening to Goodwin the other day, if we get one more season from him we are lucky. Hardwick my longshot to slide. Some good names in the has beens just timexed.

PS your hatred of cats is now benchmarked!

Next Gen:

Goodwin/Longmuir/Mitchell/McRae/Yze 

Perrenial:

Clarkson/Horse/Scott/Beveridge/Fagan

Reserve Judgement:

Nicks/Voss/Ratten/Noble

On way out:

Hinkley/Cameron/Simpson/Dew/Hardwick/Rutten/Dew

[deejammin' 2,373]

9 hours ago, DEE fence said:

Bump, watching Mitchell this year, sadly (I hate the Hawks the way Jaded hates Geelong) must disagree. Mitchell going great guns  I think Hawks slide will be short and I think Mitchell is really showing some skills. Check out the latest F2F not just spin  demonstrayed some insight and nouse. If they can get ruck right top 4 next year 2023.

I’m not so convinced, sure the Hawks appear better than last year (although they won most of their last 5 games with Clarko) but in terms of long term success Mitchell is still relying heavily on an older core of players that are on the way down, the following are carrying them atm and will not be part of their next flag imo: 

McEvoy(32), Breust (32), Gunston (30), Shiel (32),  T Mitchell (29), J O’Meara (28), Impey (28), Wingard (28), Frost (27).

These players (with the exception of an injured McEvoy) are all playing close to the Hawks best players to carry the Hawks back to competitive footy. They are not the Hawks future, to the extent Mitchell tried to trade a few of them last trade period and I predict their form will slump this year or injuries will get them, hurtling the Hawks back down for more pain, with less quality draft picks due to the improved performance from this older brigade. It might be wishful thinking but I think Mitchell and the Hawks are in for more pain, the great pretenders!

[DEE fence 5,039]

30 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

I’m not so convinced, sure the Hawks appear better than last year (although they won most of their last 5 games with Clarko) but in terms of long term success Mitchell is still relying heavily on an older core of players that are on the way down, the following are carrying them atm and will not be part of their next flag imo: 

McEvoy(32), Breust (32), Gunston (30), Shiel (32),  T Mitchell (29), J O’Meara (28), Impey (28), Wingard (28), Frost (27).

These players (with the exception of an injured McEvoy) are all playing close to the Hawks best players to carry the Hawks back to competitive footy. They are not the Hawks future, to the extent Mitchell tried to trade a few of them last trade period and I predict their form will slump this year or injuries will get them, hurtling the Hawks back down for more pain, with less quality draft picks due to the improved performance from this older brigade. It might be wishful thinking but I think Mitchell and the Hawks are in for more pain, the great pretenders!

Is a good point about age profile. Just worried he is not the train crash we were hoping for.

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

52 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

McEvoy(32), Breust (32), Gunston (30), Shiel (32),  T Mitchell (29), J O’Meara (28), Impey (28), Wingard (28), Frost (27).

Breust, Gunston and for the 15 minutes he turns up each week Wingard - yes. The others, no.

He’s staggering Mitchell and O’Meara’s on ball minutes whilst investing in Newcombe and Ward (rested v us). Even using Nash as his tagger over Shiels. No longer just handing games to Shiels, Howe, Phillips and even Worpel. Only injuries are stopping Reeves solidifying the number 1 ruck role. There’s a clear shift from the way Clarko went all in on his imported/stale midfield.

Sicily, Scrimshaw, Day and when he’s back from injury CJ have been the mainstays of the backline. They’re one more younger tall away from a complete rebuild down back.

Up forward he has to bank on the veterans because there’s no substitute for class. But I’d imagine within 12-24 months it will be the Lewis and Moore forward line plus draft picks. 

The way he’s getting games in to kids, staying competitive and kept the veterans buying in despite changing their roles is really excellent coaching.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

3 hours ago, rpfc said:

Really upset my hatred for Geelong is not as notable as Jaded’s.

Nobody hates Geelong like I hate Geelong. 

[rpfc 28,779]

Just now, Jaded No More said:

Nobody hates Geelong like I hate Geelong. 

[Lord Travis 10,763]

The Hawks are on the right track. Mitchell has them playing attacking football and they’re further ahead of where most of us expected them to be. Though I never thought we’d lose on the weekend, they gave us a good contest and had they been a bit cleaner they may have given us a real scare. They may struggle in the coming years with some senior players winding up, but they’ve got a decent game style and some good young players coming through. Was a shame we didn’t see CJ play on the weekend for them as he’s a superb young talent who’d I’d kill to have at our club. 

While we’re at it, note me down as principle Western Bulldogs hater on the board. Can’t stand those soft throwing cheating mullet [censored] scum!

[Jaded No More 68,974]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

 

While we’re at it, note me down as principle Western Bulldogs hater on the board. Can’t stand those soft throwing cheating mullet [censored] scum!

Happy to be the vice principle. I also can't stand them.

Their whole "woe is me" attitude while cheating their way through games is infuriating. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,140]

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

The Hawks are on the right track. Mitchell has them playing attacking football and they’re further ahead of where most of us expected them to be. Though I never thought we’d lose on the weekend, they gave us a good contest and had they been a bit cleaner they may have given us a real scare. They may struggle in the coming years with some senior players winding up, but they’ve got a decent game style and some good young players coming through. Was a shame we didn’t see CJ play on the weekend for them as he’s a superb young talent who’d I’d kill to have at our club. 

While we’re at it, note me down as principle Western Bulldogs hater on the board. Can’t stand those soft throwing cheating mullet [censored] scum!

Agreed.
They need to reload the list, but they will be back, in a few Seasons, but along the way they will pull off the odd big win. 

[Deeko2 844]

7 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Breust, Gunston and for the 15 minutes he turns up each week Wingard - yes. The others, no.

He’s staggering Mitchell and O’Meara’s on ball minutes whilst investing in Newcombe and Ward (rested v us). Even using Nash as his tagger over Shiels. No longer just handing games to Shiels, Howe, Phillips and even Worpel. Only injuries are stopping Reeves solidifying the number 1 ruck role. There’s a clear shift from the way Clarko went all in on his imported/stale midfield.

Sicily, Scrimshaw, Day and when he’s back from injury CJ have been the mainstays of the backline. They’re one more younger tall away from a complete rebuild down back.

Up forward he has to bank on the veterans because there’s no substitute for class. But I’d imagine within 12-24 months it will be the Lewis and Moore forward line plus draft picks. 

The way he’s getting games in to kids, staying competitive and kept the veterans buying in despite changing their roles is really excellent coaching.

Good post DeeSpencer and he's doing well in getting time into his youth where there is some talent.

I'm not sure however the talent is enough however to get them anywhere higher than the bottom half of the 8.  Although there are some good kids there, I think we all know top 4 teams are there due to superstar midfields.

Looking at the top 5 times last year, they all are star-studded in regards to there centreline.  The hawks next gen mids are ok but I would compare them to our role players in Viney/Sparrow/Jordan/Harmes etc.  

They're really good players but they're not going to win you games like Oliver/Trac/Gawn will.

I'm enjoying fact that he's going to keep them fighting for irrelevancy for his tenure.  Unless they bring in a superstar free agent mid or two, they'll be floating between 10th to 6th for the next half dozen years.... perfect
 

[deejammin' 2,373]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Breust, Gunston and for the 15 minutes he turns up each week Wingard - yes. The others, no.

He’s staggering Mitchell and O’Meara’s on ball minutes whilst investing in Newcombe and Ward (rested v us). Even using Nash as his tagger over Shiels. No longer just handing games to Shiels, Howe, Phillips and even Worpel. Only injuries are stopping Reeves solidifying the number 1 ruck role. There’s a clear shift from the way Clarko went all in on his imported/stale midfield.

Sicily, Scrimshaw, Day and when he’s back from injury CJ have been the mainstays of the backline. They’re one more younger tall away from a complete rebuild down back.

Up forward he has to bank on the veterans because there’s no substitute for class. But I’d imagine within 12-24 months it will be the Lewis and Moore forward line plus draft picks. 

The way he’s getting games in to kids, staying competitive and kept the veterans buying in despite changing their roles is really excellent coaching.

Agree to disagree I guess. I see them finishing 10-12 this year and staying outside the 8 next year. What do you reckon?

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,883]

10 hours ago, deejammin' said:

I’m not so convinced, sure the Hawks appear better than last year (although they won most of their last 5 games with Clarko) but in terms of long term success Mitchell is still relying heavily on an older core of players that are on the way down, the following are carrying them atm and will not be part of their next flag imo: 

McEvoy(32), Breust (32), Gunston (30), Shiel (32),  T Mitchell (29), J O’Meara (28), Impey (28), Wingard (28), Frost (27).

These players (with the exception of an injured McEvoy) are all playing close to the Hawks best players to carry the Hawks back to competitive footy. They are not the Hawks future, to the extent Mitchell tried to trade a few of them last trade period and I predict their form will slump this year or injuries will get them, hurtling the Hawks back down for more pain, with less quality draft picks due to the improved performance from this older brigade. It might be wishful thinking but I think Mitchell and the Hawks are in for more pain, the great pretenders!

 

1 hour ago, Deeko2 said:

Good post DeeSpencer and he's doing well in getting time into his youth where there is some talent.

I'm not sure however the talent is enough however to get them anywhere higher than the bottom half of the 8.  Although there are some good kids there, I think we all know top 4 teams are there due to superstar midfields.

Looking at the top 5 times last year, they all are star-studded in regards to there centreline.  The hawks next gen mids are ok but I would compare them to our role players in Viney/Sparrow/Jordan/Harmes etc.  

They're really good players but they're not going to win you games like Oliver/Trac/Gawn will.

I'm enjoying fact that he's going to keep them fighting for irrelevancy for his tenure.  Unless they bring in a superstar free agent mid or two, they'll be floating between 10th to 6th for the next half dozen years.... perfect
 

Agree with all of this.

I think the MFC experience over the past 30 odd years has taught me that there's a huge difference between that can be almost compeditive every second week and/or scrape into finals, than one that can finish top 4 and genuinely challenge for a flag.

My take is before Clarkson was shown the door by Kennett, that he was coaching to develop players rather than win games.  Not quite tanking, but it would have been pretty handy for the Hawks to pick up a top 4 or 5 pick rather than 7 which they ended up with.  Kennett pisses him off and now he's coaching more to win and show off what he can do to get results with a very average list.

Like you both, I'm more than happy for the Hawks to be faux compeditive and spend decades being mediocre.

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

2 hours ago, Deeko2 said:

Good post DeeSpencer and he's doing well in getting time into his youth where there is some talent.

I'm not sure however the talent is enough however to get them anywhere higher than the bottom half of the 8.  Although there are some good kids there, I think we all know top 4 teams are there due to superstar midfields.

Looking at the top 5 times last year, they all are star-studded in regards to there centreline.  The hawks next gen mids are ok but I would compare them to our role players in Viney/Sparrow/Jordan/Harmes etc.  

They're really good players but they're not going to win you games like Oliver/Trac/Gawn will.

I'm enjoying fact that he's going to keep them fighting for irrelevancy for his tenure.  Unless they bring in a superstar free agent mid or two, they'll be floating between 10th to 6th for the next half dozen years.... perfect
 

I think Ward is very good. Not Oliver, Petracca great obviously but A grade potential, Jack Macrae level. They were desperate to trade up for Finn Callaghan but couldn’t get it done. How low do you have to finish to get a superstar? Tracc 2, Bont, Oliver 4, Buddy 5, Selwood 7, Danger 10. We traded up for Clarry too, it can be done.

1 hour ago, deejammin' said:

Agree to disagree I guess. I see them finishing 10-12 this year and staying outside the 8 next year. What do you reckon?

I’d say that’s right but he’s giving the kids a lot more responsibility than Clarko did. Plus the attacking game style is perfect for a young team as well as long as the defending doesn’t get away from them which I haven’t seen yet.
 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

It's one thing to play all-out attacking football and it's another to be a consistent winning side.

Essendon under Knights were the template for attacking teams that leak like a sieve.

Melbourne in 2018 were devastating when it clicked, and helpless when it didn't. (Ref: preliminary final)

Carlton under Teague got the "like a sieve" part nailed, but not the heavy scoring part.

Now we see Essendon, Collingwood, Hawthorn all trying it. Essendon don't have the heart for it, Collingwood don't have the talent or the fitness, and Hawthorn not the experience. (Mitchell seems a canny operator.) It works beautifully in short bursts and then dissolves like a sugar cube in the rain. Only faster.

Since the dawn of time, the best teams have had (1) a solid defence, and (2) scoring firepower when needed. We're right in the sweet spot and it will be a disappointment if we can't winkle another flag out of the current list.

[Fork 'em 6,991]

4 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 Since the dawn of time, the best teams have had (1) a solid defence, and (2) scoring firepower when needed. We're right in the sweet spot and it will be a disappointment if we can't winkle another flag out of the current list.

Winkle another flag .... 😕
With this list I'm looking to stomp through the next 2 flags and maybe "winkle" another couple after that.
But if Jackson stays and becomes the player I think he'll be I'll be looking to stomp through those as well.
Most of our guns are just hitting their prime.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Fork 'em