CHANGES: PF vs Geelong

[kev martin 9,892]

2 hours ago, demon3165 said:

Not quite a Smith fan but I think he is a better forward than backman thats all, was only throwing up.

I agree, Smith seems to be more of a see ball go after it. A back needs to make the judgement of, cover the man and space first, and then go get the ball. 

They are educating him but realy should train to his strengths and nature.

Would like to see him further up field next season. 

[Travy14 1,917]

I was at the game and smith was horrible and alot of the time gets dragged into the ball and Cameron stuck into space.  Was a 3min period that Smith was off and May was on Cameron and beat him 3 times twice in the air and once on the ground.

Was a bad match up but in saying that GWS and Geel don't have a player like that.

So I'm not sure, thinking Smith out for Hunt if he is ready.

[kev martin 9,892]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Cameron Goal #1 - Smith is 100% on him. Standing right next to him with a hand on him as the ball is about to come in. He leaves Cameron to follow the ball, Cameron gets separation from him and kicks it. Poor by Smith, his fault.

We had the ball, then River's fumbles the ball with his disposal, ending up in Cameron's lap. Tough to stop when he has a step on his opponent. Got Cameron going.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, kev martin said:

We had the ball, then River's fumbles the ball with his disposal, ending up in Cameron's lap. Tough to stop when he has a step on his opponent. Got Cameron going.

Sorry mate, that's not correct, Cameron's first goal came after a long kick inside 50 that Brisbane won.

Are you referring to the 2nd goal where Cameron gets it in the middle perhaps? If so, check the photo I posted in my next post, Smith's positioning in that contest was horrible.

[kev martin 9,892]

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Sorry mate, that's not correct, Cameron's first goal came after a long kick inside 50 that Brisbane won.

Are you referring to the 2nd goal where Cameron gets it in the middle perhaps? If so, check the photo I posted in my next post, Smith's positioning in that contest was horrible.

Yes you are right, just looking at the replay now, the second of Brisbane's.

Smith turned his back on the play making it difficult for Rivers. Was caught watching the man and not helping Rivers, who expected Smith to be running for him.

Apologies for jumping the gun and going of my first look.

Edited August 30, 2021 by kev martin

[Fat Tony 5,231]

33 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

He's not "spreading from the contest". Riv turns it over, but look at Smith's positioning in relation to Cameron when it looks like Brisbane will win the ball.

This shot was before Rivers even had the ball and made the crucial error. It was a scrubby kick and Smith came to the contest. Rivers won the ball after it hit the deck and coughed it up to Cameron. Once he got the break, Usain Bolt could have been playing on him and it still would have been a Cameron goal. Pretty important omission from your initial analysis of Cameron’s goals and criticism of Smith. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

This shot was before Rivers even had the ball and made the crucial error. It was a scrubby kick and Smith came to the contest. Rivers won the ball after it hit the deck and coughed it up to Cameron. Once he got the break, Usain Bolt could have been playing on him and it still would have been a Cameron goal. Pretty important omission from your initial analysis of Cameron’s goals and criticism of Smith. 

Sorry mate, have watched it a ton of times and can't totally agree here.

Smith gets drawn away from his man and towards the ball. He's neither on Cameron or attacking the ball so he's in no man's land. Initially Brisbane look like they're going to get it, and just before Rivers gets to it Smith realizes he's left his man and turns to try and find him which is when Rivers wins it and tried to dish the ball out towards Smith.

The reason Cameron 'gets the break' on him is because Smith is nowhere near him. Sure, after that Smith won't be able to catch him, but that's entirely Smith's fault for not having any awareness and being indecisive.

 

[Fat Tony 5,231]

11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Sorry mate, have watched it a ton of times and can't totally agree here.

Smith gets drawn away from his man and towards the ball. He's neither on Cameron or attacking the ball so he's in no man's land. Initially Brisbane look like they're going to get it, and just before Rivers gets to it Smith realizes he's left his man and turns to try and find him which is when Rivers wins it and tried to dish the ball out towards Smith.

The reason Cameron 'gets the break' on him is because Smith is nowhere near him. Sure, after that Smith won't be able to catch him, but that's entirely Smith's fault for not having any awareness and being indecisive.

 

So no blame on Rivers just putting it on Cameron’s chest?

[godees 863]

I like Smith but he hasn’t played enough footy with the back group and is messing with their synergy. Hunt should come back to replace him.

Smith to have a big 2022 

[kev martin 9,892]

15 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Sure, after that Smith won't be able to catch him, but that's entirely Smith's fault for not having any awareness and being indecisive.

Not entirely Smith.

It was Rivers decision to handball to where he thought a player would be. Could have lifted his eyes and had a look for someone who wanted it, perhaps, hold onto it and take the tackle. Rivers seemed rushed and made a poor decision, though Smith didn't help him.

Edited August 30, 2021 by kev martin

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, Fat Tony said:

So no blame on Rivers just putting it on Cameron’s chest?

Sure, Rivers got rid of the ball without checking if Smith was looking, but the goal would never have happened if Smith hadn't left his man open by 20 metres.

I'm not a Smith basher, I don't think he was that bad tbh, but the first 2 goals were his fault IMO.

Personally, I'd keep Smith in to play on Rohan if we end up playing Geelong.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, kev martin said:

Not entirely Smith.

It was Rivers decision to handball to where he thought a player would be. Could have lifted his eyes and had a look for someone who wanted it, perhaps, hold onto it and take the tackle. Rivers seemed rushed and made a poor decision. Though Smith didn't help him.

Rivers didn't have time to gather, look around, think about his options, he handballed it while still in the air to where Smith was standing a second earlier. Was a mistake sure, but Smith needed to either get involved in the contest or stick next to his man, he did neither.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Sure, Rivers got rid of the ball without checking if Smith was looking, but the goal would never have happened if Smith hadn't left his man open by 20 metres.

I'm not a Smith basher, I don't think he was that bad tbh, but the first 2 goals were his fault IMO.

Personally, I'd keep Smith in to play on Rohan if we end up playing Geelong.

Rivers could have turned and given to Lever behind him. Taking the ball into the corridor was a massive blue. Smith got a bit lost between defending and attacking but the goal was mostly Rivers fault. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, Fat Tony said:

Rivers could have turned and given to Lever behind him. Taking the ball into the corridor was a massive blue. Smith got a bit lost between defending and attacking but the goal was mostly Rivers fault. 

Mate, watch it again a few times, RIvers has it for a split second, doesn't even really gather it. He handballs to where Smith was standing facing him a second earlier but Smith has turned to find his man upon realizing he was miles away.

Smith neither impacted the contest or stayed with his man. Poor mistake by him, which I'm sure he's learned from.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

34 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Mate, watch it again a few times, RIvers has it for a split second, doesn't even really gather it. He handballs to where Smith was standing facing him a second earlier but Smith has turned to find his man upon realizing he was miles away.

Smith neither impacted the contest or stayed with his man. Poor mistake by him, which I'm sure he's learned from.

Rivers should never have gone into the corridor. It was a low percentage play given our entire midfield was in the forward half and they had an open 50. It was completely against the game plan. We have not gone inboard like that all season. You either take the tackle or feed it towards the boundary.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

23 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

My last sentence is a double negative. What I was trying to say is that I think Smith is the only player on our list who could spend the entire game on Cameron, have Cameron kick 5, and then get praised. Anyone else would be lambasted.

Arguing no one else could have gone with Cameron is circuitous - you take his form beating Smith and then say "well no one else could go with that". But we don't know what a different/better defender could have done by way of positioning, blocking, etc. 

I've openly said I've never rated Smith, but my posts about him are to question why there is so much praise after a player conceded 5 goals to his direct opponent and I think it's a cop out to say "oh Cameron's too good".

Smith is terrible, no idea why he's getting a game when Hibberd is there. If Hunt is fit he's back in surely, Smith cost us 3 goals in the first quarter we're flirting with danger.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

23 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Rivers should never have gone into the corridor. It was a low percentage play given our entire midfield was in the forward half and they had an open 50. It was completely against the game plan. We have not gone inboard like that all season. You either take the tackle or feed it towards the boundary.

You're massively overselling his options and opportunity mate. He wasn't 'going inboard', he was trying to win a contested ball and it to a player who 1 second before was right in front of him.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

3 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Everyone who's commenting on this game saw it on TV - commentators included. How anyone could tell who was playing on Cameron when he kicked those three Q1 goals I have no idea.

The reason you couldn't tell who was on him was because Smith was playing so loose.

[bobby1554 1,244]

Hibberd for Smith, Hunt for Bowey. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

3 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

The second goal was a bad turnover by Rivers where he handed it to Cameron and Smith was spreading from the contest. 

Because Smith took his eyes off the ball. We've built a team that trusts their teammates to be in the right spots and Rivers expected Smith to be aware of where he needed to be but Smith turned away too worried about Cameron because he'd already stuffed up and cost us a goal.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

2 hours ago, Chook said:

Goal number 2 was the worst IMO.

You have a young player in Rivers under pressure needing an outlet release option. It's Smith's turn to be that. What does Smith do? Moves towards Rivers but also behind him, making the handpass basically impossible or at the very least much harder to execute.

Naturally, young Rivers coughs it up? Who to? Smith's man Cameron. Just awful. Hibberd would never do something so poor.

EDIT: In the heat of the moment I thought it was Rivers' fault - a young player overawed by the situation. It was actually a settled Melbourne player who has been in the side all year going to where he had been conditioned to think a team mate would be. Smith let him down, because he doesn't know the system yet.

Can't carry that in a big final.

Bingo

[demon3165 2,718]

5 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Aliir was taking most of his intercept marks 40+ meters away from goal. Kick it in deeper inside 50 and he will be under more pressure.

Fair point.

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

8 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

You could argue Bowey has a more 'wise head' than Hunt.

Also, in terms of finals experience: Bowey 1, Hunt 0.

 

Seems a bit of a stretch to say that Bowey, who’s played 5 games, possesses a wiser head than Hunt who’s played 94. 

I’m really excited by Bowey but his inexperience and lack of wisdom (which is something gained, not learned) has peeked through at times. Specifically his lack of opposition-awareness. He’ll get there and he’ll get there well, but I think it would be a bit remiss to consider him an automatic replacement for Jayden just yet. 

[Sean Balor 49]

Bowey has been good. I wouldn't drop him. If that QF was his test? He passed with flying colours.

[rpfc 28,432]

6 hours ago, bobby1554 said:

Hibberd for Smith, Hunt for Bowey. 

I can see this happening.

Jackson, Spargo, Kozi, Rivers, Sparrow, and Petty is enough of a young/inexperienced brigade for a prelim into a possible GF.