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MFC player racially abused on social media - club statement

Grapeviney
Grapeviney
in Melbourne Demons

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@Lord Nev @Hopeful Demon you two can facepalm all you like. It doesn't actually say where you see I am wrong. Explain how separate awards based on race is a good thing.

A commentator in the NFL said this exact same thing on live television. Call them all "players". He also was an African American player of the past. He wanted the segregation removed.

 
  On 12/08/2021 at 05:21, Youngwilliam said:

@Lord Nev @Hopeful Demon you two can facepalm all you like. It doesn't actually say where you see I am wrong. Explain how separate awards based on race is a good thing.

A commentator in the NFL said this exact same thing on live television. Call them all "players". He also was an African American player of the past. He wanted the segregation removed.

It's not "segregation" to try and raise up a culture that has been oppressed for hundreds of years by having a few footy awards to celebrate their contribution and attempt to instill a bit of pride.

But I wouldn't expect someone who posts things like this to understand that, so take your rubbish elsewhere.

 

 

    • Like 5
      On 12/08/2021 at 05:21, Youngwilliam said:

    @Lord Nev @Hopeful Demon you two can facepalm all you like. It doesn't actually say where you see I am wrong. Explain how separate awards based on race is a good thing.

    A commentator in the NFL said this exact same thing on live television. Call them all "players". He also was an African American player of the past. He wanted the segregation removed.

    They are facepalming because it would appear you have read none of this thread. I reacted in a similar vein.

    Firstly, what award are you talking about? 

    Secondly, once we have established what award you are talking about (is it an AFL or NFL award? I'm confused), could you please give us your impressions on how segregation was practiced in the USA, apartheid in countries like South Africa and Rhodesia and of the type of legalized exclusion we practiced prior to 1967 (and the de facto discrimination continued that was caused by cultural and textbook genocide, family separation, exploitation of labor)? And how this is comparable to bestowing an award to an Indigenous player in a professional sporting league?

    Then please draw us a straight line to how that leads to outcomes such as supremacist thinking, legalized discrimination, and dispossession. 

    We can wait. 

    Edited by Colin B. Flaubert

     
      On 12/08/2021 at 05:21, Youngwilliam said:

    @Lord Nev @Hopeful Demon you two can facepalm all you like. It doesn't actually say where you see I am wrong. Explain how separate awards based on race is a good thing.

    A commentator in the NFL said this exact same thing on live television. Call them all "players". He also was an African American player of the past. He wanted the segregation removed.

    Ok, I'll quickly tell you where you're wrong now. The fact that the AFL is starting to provide these sorts of awards shows that they are finally making some effort to acknowledge the contributions and work ethic of the Aboriginal community. Since when was it so oppressive to celebrate a culture that has been at the receiving end of discrimination, oppression and abuse for so many decades? 

    Edited by Hopeful Demon

    • Like 5

    Whoever runs the WCE Facebook account has just told me that NicNat has made a statement on behalf of their club on Twitter today.  Any Twitter uses care to confirm and share?

    Edit:  It's a video that they have also been released on Facebook.

    Edited by S_T


      On 12/08/2021 at 05:21, Youngwilliam said:

    @Lord Nev @Hopeful Demon you two can facepalm all you like. It doesn't actually say where you see I am wrong. Explain how separate awards based on race is a good thing.

    A commentator in the NFL said this exact same thing on live television. Call them all "players". He also was an African American player of the past. He wanted the segregation removed.

    think of it another way, yw

    it's not an act of "segregation" but rather an act of integration, to include and recognise their achievements despite the obstacles placed in their way which otherwise excludes them from the majority. but it's benefit is not just for the individual rewarded but also a positive message of inclusion to the minority group he/she belongs to.

    Edited by daisycutter

    • Like 9
      On 12/08/2021 at 01:50, Brownie said:

    Hey @Cranky FrankyI haven't got around to reading this work yet. I've read both Bill Gammage's Greatest Estate on Earth and Dark Emu. They tend to align quite closely in that aboriginal people managed the landscape very sensitively to their advantage. I would call it farming. I guess part of it is your definition of what agriculture or farming is.

    I do know that Bruce's heritage and work has been systematically attacked by a small number of influential people.
    I know its taken a heavy personal toll on him (via friends I have who know him). 

    I wouldn't say his work has been dunked and is full of errors. Not from what I've read and some of the first nations people I've listened to. This seems to be a balance view: https://theconversation.com/book-review-farmers-or-hunter-gatherers-the-dark-emu-debate-rigorously-critiques-bruce-pascoes-argument-161877

    I do find it interesting they've written a book about another book, but it I'll probably look to read it to get a balanced view. Everyone has a different truth I guess.

    It's why I think truth is so important and some in this country aren't willing to embrace it yet.
    It's not about getting over it, its about facing up to it and owning it.

    Anyways, Go Dees!

    The authors are well acknowledged experts in their field.. The source material for their conclusions is original interviews with traditional Aboriginal people.

    Bruce has been supported by many Indigenous leaders but the Tasmanian Aboriginal land Council has been quiet critical of him see link. 

    https://www.tasmaniantimes.com/2020/01/bruce-pascoe-is-not-aboriginal/

    I like Bruce both as an author and as a person but Dark Emu seems obsessed with proving that Aboriginal people were more farmers than hunter gatherers.

    The view these days is that it takes more skill and knowledge to be successful nomadic hunter gatherers than it does to be farmers.

     

      On 12/08/2021 at 00:10, Dr. Gonzo said:

    Putting a percentage on it is fraught with danger however I will say that there is a clear undercurrent of racism that is embedded in our culture.

    Racism is a universal human condition found in every country. It probably started when we were cave men & learnt to only trust people from our extended family group. (this is pure speculation on my part)

    It seems more prevalent where societies are more homogeneous & haven't mixed or experienced peoples from other ethnic or racial types. 

    One thing that bugs me is that while you cannot tell your child not to marry someone because they are black or white its quiet ok to oppose a marriage because one is from a different culture or religion.  This is a good reason to ban all religions.

     
      On 12/08/2021 at 06:49, Cranky Franky said:

    ...

    The view these days is that it takes more skill and knowledge to be successful nomadic hunter gatherers than it does to be farmers.

     

    But you realise that claiming they weren't farmers (in the European meaning of the word) was the legal basis for displacing the First Nations people?

    From Jagots address to the NSW Young Lawyers Conference:

    Cook saw plenty of Aboriginal people but, coming from the dense population of England which had been subject to intensive agricultural techniques for centuries, not evidence of a kind he would recognise as the hallmarks of permanent habitation or cultivation of the land – Australia was thus terra nullius and remained so until 1992.

    https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/digital-law-library/judges-speeches/justice-jagot/jagot-j-20171020

     

    It is only in this current generations life that we began to recognise that "actually they were here". A nation of people, with their own laws, and rules and customs, just wiped out and a new legal structure - Australia - just placed over the top of them, which ignored them until recently.

     

     

    On the issue of Pascoe's aboriginality or not, who cares? I'm not First Nations, it's not my lane to comment on that, and I'm sure that community will sort it out, or not. But what difference does it make to anything? 

    Edited by deanox

    • Like 4
      On 12/08/2021 at 04:39, Youngwilliam said:

    Just throwing this in, you are never going to get rid of racism as long as society keeps segregating people.

    We have Indigenous awards, why? Are they not equal to every other players? Are aboriginal people unable to compete with everyone else? 

    People want to blend in but also keep their identity without bringing misery to others. You show how this works and you have solved racism.

    You should delete your account or be banned. You are just trying to inflame with ignorance, posing as pseudo intellectualisms. It’s not profound or correct and shouldn’t be even given the respect of a argued response.

    • Like 5

      On 12/08/2021 at 07:12, rpfc said:

    You should delete your account or be banned. You are just trying to inflame with ignorance, posing as pseudo intellectualisms. It’s not profound or correct and shouldn’t be even given the respect of a argued response.

    Interesting direction, you are taking. I thought @daisycutter answered the best and most eloquently. I see intolerance is strong in you.

      On 12/08/2021 at 07:21, Youngwilliam said:

    Interesting direction, you are taking. I thought @daisycutter answered the best and most eloquently. I see intolerance is strong in you.

    Intolerance for the intolerant YW. If the rest of us want to create a tolerant society then intolerant views need to be blocked out and condemned. That's how it works.

     

    • Like 3
      On 12/08/2021 at 07:21, Youngwilliam said:

    Interesting direction, you are taking. I thought @daisycutter answered the best and most eloquently. I see intolerance is strong in you.

    rpfc is spot on. You should be banned.

    THERE IS NO TOLERANCE FOR RACISM.

     

    • Like 1

    Where is the racism in my comment? 

    We all support MFC, that's what brings us together but as you start to delve into the character of each supporter you are going to find differences. Differences you will not agree with. 

    What was said about Kossi by this person is wrong but you get stuck in a vicious circle with internet trolls. They want recognition for their work. You should ignore them, don't give them recognition, but you have to talk about it because "call out racism".

    I think a few of you are missing the point I am making here.

    Humans are competitive, they bring down anyone they fear or have a jealousy towards. They do their best to bring them down. 

    In 2021, South Africa is not the Utopia you are looking for.

     

      On 12/08/2021 at 07:29, 1964_2 said:

    rpfc is spot on. You should be banned.

    THERE IS NO TOLERANCE FOR RACISM.

     

    Sorry for telling you Santa doesn't exist. Its why we have prisons, it's why we have a police force, it's why we have a judicial system. Way to fly off the handle with your nonsensical finger pointing. 

    There will always be bad people in the world and it comes down to how you manage the bad people. Racism is in the human nature, it's what makes humans competitive. A nation cannot exist under two (of equal stance) flags. Is none of this is logical?

    Ban me pfft, sorry not sorry for being your boogie man. I think you need to see how the real world exists if you have people of different beliefs swinging hands.

    We have it lucky in AFL because we can sit next to other supporters of other teams and not murder each other, unlike soccer in England. Now that's intolerance. Dang, I just gaslight the argument.

     


      On 12/08/2021 at 07:42, Youngwilliam said:

    Humans are competitive, they bring down anyone they fear or have a jealousy towards. They do their best to bring them down. 

    In 2021, South Africa is not the Utopia you are looking for

    What the flock has that got to do with the intolerance and prejudice and racial abuse in Australia?

    • Like 1
      On 12/08/2021 at 07:07, deanox said:

    It is only in this current generations life that we began to recognise that "actually they were here". A nation of people, with their own laws, and rules and customs, just wiped out and a new legal structure - Australia - just placed over the top of them, which ignored them until recently.

     

     

    On the issue of Pascoe's aboriginality or not, who cares? I'm not First Nations, it's not my lane to comment on that, and I'm sure that community will sort it out, or not. But what difference does it make to anything? 

    It's interesting, Deanox,  how the Cranks and Faultys and his gang turned this into a debate about Dark Emu, which to my understanding, simply points out that the so-called History about Aboriginal culture we were taught might be askew somewhat. So instead of having a discussion about how widespread and common racial abuse is in our country, we get served up the ridiculous side tracked convolutions the Cranks and Fs's and their like roll out.

    Edited by dieter

    • Like 2
      On 12/08/2021 at 07:07, deanox said:

    But you realise that claiming they weren't farmers (in the European meaning of the word) was the legal basis for displacing the First Nations people?

    From Jagots address to the NSW Young Lawyers Conference:

    Cook saw plenty of Aboriginal people but, coming from the dense population of England which had been subject to intensive agricultural techniques for centuries, not evidence of a kind he would recognise as the hallmarks of permanent habitation or cultivation of the land – Australia was thus terra nullius and remained so until 1992.

    https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/digital-law-library/judges-speeches/justice-jagot/jagot-j-20171020

     

    It is only in this current generations life that we began to recognise that "actually they were here". A nation of people, with their own laws, and rules and customs, just wiped out and a new legal structure - Australia - just placed over the top of them, which ignored them until recently.

     

     

    On the issue of Pascoe's aboriginality or not, who cares? I'm not First Nations, it's not my lane to comment on that, and I'm sure that community will sort it out, or not. But what difference does it make to anything? 

    You've previously demonstrated you don't understand logical reasoning so I'm not wasting my time with your selective, garbled nonsense.

    Just like Flaubert has cancelled me I'm cancelling you. Maybe cancel culture can be a positive.. 

      On 12/08/2021 at 08:03, dieter said:

    What the flock has that got to do with the intolerance and prejudice and racial abuse in Australia?

    Umm, everything. White English come to the Aboriginal land, they murder, racially abuse and reprogram the aboriginal people. If the indigenous didn't turn white English in their character then they were killed. It's how all colonisation and discovering new lands were practices. Europe's countries borders are not them same today as they were 50, 100, 150 200 years ago. 

    I am not excusing such practices in 2021 as some have accused me of.

    Just saying that South Africa has given power to black leadership, it's not looking good for 100% of the South African population. 

      On 12/08/2021 at 08:19, Youngwilliam said:

    Umm, everything. White English come to the Aboriginal land, they murder, racially abuse and reprogram the aboriginal people. If the indigenous didn't turn white English in their character then they were killed. It's how all colonisation and discovering new lands were practices. Europe's countries borders are not them same today as they were 50, 100, 150 200 years ago. 

    I am not excusing such practices in 2021 as some have accused me of.

    Just saying that South Africa has given power to black leadership, it's not looking good for 100% of the South African population. 

    Tell me one country where it's 'looking good' for 100% of the population???????To keep justifying your stand is pathetic and totally irrelevant to the topic of racial abuse and discrimination against our Aboriginal people.

    • Like 1

      On 12/08/2021 at 08:16, Cranky Franky said:

    You've previously demonstrated you don't understand logical reasoning so I'm not wasting my time with your selective, garbled nonsense.

    Just like Flaubert has cancelled me I'm cancelling you. Maybe cancel culture can be a positive.. 

    I really feel sorry for you Cranky.

    Everytime someone demonstrates you are wrong you lose your mind. Your cognitive bias is so strong you can't actually engage in a rational argument.

    I don't think you are a bad person deep down but even if you don't mean to, you are contributing to the racist narrative in this country. I hope you can find a way to grow past it. Good luck.

    Edited by deanox

    • Like 5
      On 12/08/2021 at 08:23, dieter said:

    Tell me one country where it's 'looking good' for 100% of the population???????To keep justifying your stand is pathetic and totally irrelevant to the topic of racial abuse and discrimination against our Aboriginal people.

    Name a multicultural country that does not have conflict, it's human nature. If people are not fighting about race, then they are fighting about religion, or politics. Two neighbouring towns in Australia will hate each other. I came from a barely 100 population country town and every time we played cricket of footy against the next town 12 kms down the road it would be savage. 

     

    The point I am making in this thread is you are handling the internet trolls incorrectly. You can't stop the trolls making comments because they always find a way. You need to educate the players, give them the foundation to handle the talk. No it's not easy or a perfect solution and it's not the result alot of you will agree with. Don't talk about what the trolls say and they will get bored and move on.

     

     
      On 12/08/2021 at 08:37, Youngwilliam said:

    Name a multicultural country that does not have conflict, it's human nature. If people are not fighting about race, then they are fighting about religion, or politics. Two neighbouring towns in Australia will hate each other. I came from a barely 100 population country town and every time we played cricket of footy against the next town 12 kms down the road it would be savage. 

     

    What has this got to with the continuing racial abuse of Aborigines?

    Edited by dieter

    • Like 2
      On 12/08/2021 at 08:37, Youngwilliam said:

    Name a multicultural country that does not have conflict, it's human nature. If people are not fighting about race, then they are fighting about religion, or politics. Two neighbouring towns in Australia will hate each other. I came from a barely 100 population country town and every time we played cricket of footy against the next town 12 kms down the road it would be savage. 

     

    Why don't we teach people not to be savage, offensive, [censored], rather than try to teach people to cop it sweet and move on?

    • Like 3

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