13 minutes ago, forever demons said:

Expectations placed to early on these young blokes can be soul destroying,we have been down this path before.Eg Hogan who i think was played to early,mature body immature brain,hugh expectations on him and we all know that ended tears and of course watts

i think we really need to adjust our thoughts when it comes to performances.  Not everyone has to be a match-winner but they all have to pull their weight with effort/repeat efforts.  Young guys are not expected to do it all....but if they are picked they are good enough and should contribute with at least some flashy cameos.  More worried about some of our more senior team members pulling their weight honestly, there are too many that lack consistency within games and often fluffing up simple things.

Let's face it, we need the whole team to lift and start "bleeding" for one another before we go anywhere...hopefully this is the year we start to gel and work out the effort that is required to win footy games.

 

2 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

i think we really need to adjust our thoughts when it comes to performances.  Not everyone has to be a match-winner but they all have to pull their weight with effort/repeat efforts.  Young guys are not expected to do it all....but if they are picked they are good enough and should contribute with at least some flashy cameos.  More worried about some of our more senior team members pulling their weight honestly, there are too many that lack consistency within games and often fluffing up simple things.

Let's face it, we need the whole team to lift and start "bleeding" for one another before we go anywhere...hopefully this is the year we start to gel and work out the effort that is required to win footy games.

 

Flashy cameos are not going to win games

22 minutes ago, forever demons said:

Can't see why any player would be just going through the motionsbut if so then i agree with you

I'm not suggesting they have zero interest - obviously they do

What I am suggesting is that the gap that exists between best and worst for some players on our list is too big and not acceptable if they ever want to seriously challenge. The better teams don't tend to have such a wide gap in performance levels. They don't have huge lapses in concentration or application. They don't have teams scoring multiple unanswered goals repeatedly week after week. They don't have what seems to be significant drop offs in intensity from week to week or from quarter to quarter. Occasionally - maybe, but not consistently

Unfortunately I would guess we are one of the worst teams in the competition in terms of win ratio in games where we are clear favorite - that suggests to me there is a big problem - That problem needs addressing urgently and if it means bringing in players who can apply themselves more consistently then I welcome them despite how old they are or how many games they may have played

      

5 hours ago, Clintosaurus said:

Or this from Twitter

 

Oh dear, we're in for a hell of a ride with this one. The attacker quite clearly left his line to kick around the man on the mark, before he's moved. Should've been play on.

100%, games will be won and lost on this rule, and more importantly, it's adjudication (no, not interpretation, adjudication)

30 minutes ago, forever demons said:

Expectations placed to early on these young blokes can be soul destroying,we have been down this path before.Eg Hogan who i think was played to early,mature body immature brain,hugh expectations on him and we all know that ended tears and of course watts

I hear what you are saying but we are a more professional, competent club now.  The kids should have expectations put on them and they should believe they can play round 1 but we should not be expecting them to be the difference.  Rivers and Jackson for example came in, played their role and played well.

1 minute ago, Sydee said:

I'm not suggesting they have zero interest - obviously they do

What I am suggesting is that the gap that exists between best and worst for some players on our list is too big and not acceptable if they ever want to seriously challenge. The better teams don't tend to have such a wide gap in performance levels. They don't have huge lapses in concentration or application. They don't have teams scoring multiple unanswered goals repeatedly week after week. They don't have what seems to be significant drop offs in intensity from week to week or from quarter to quarter. Occasionally - maybe, but not consistently

Unfortunately I would guess we are one of the worst teams in the competition in terms of win ratio in games where we are clear favorite - that suggests to me there is a big problem - That problem needs addressing urgently and if it means bringing in players who can apply themselves more consistently then I welcome them despite how old they are or how many games they may have played

      

I agree with a lot you say but I don't want to see them played to early and become disheartened ,its a big jump from playing against boys to men.I think a lot what have said comes to coaching which has not been to flash

4 minutes ago, forever demons said:

I agree with a lot you say but I don't want to see them played to early and become disheartened ,its a big jump from playing against boys to men.I think a lot what have said comes to coaching which has not been to flash

One day we will finally run out of pathetic excuses and win a flag 

1 minute ago, DubDee said:

I hear what you are saying but we are a more professional, competent club now.  The kids should have expectations put on them and they should believe they can play round 1 but we should not be expecting them to be the difference.  Rivers and Jackson for example came in, played their role and played well.

If they are good enough and mature enough thats fine ,Rivers and especially Jackson seem to be

3 minutes ago, Sydee said:

One day we will finally run out of pathetic excuses and win a flag 

Won't win a flag with team of boys Rivers ,Jackson Pickett ,etc are still very young it will take games to get them to 100%

On 2/23/2021 at 11:10 AM, dee-tox said:

This is a big call! What have trackwatchers seen that justifies this?

Just playing devil's advocate, he was drafted on virtually no exposed TAC Cup form although he apparently did well in pre-season practice matches leading up to the cancelled competition.

What we know is he is an amazing athlete, that he is decent overhead and has an awkward kicking action. What other traits make him a round one starter?

I sometimes wonder if fans forget how difficult it is for anyone, let alone teenagers, to make that transition from underage football to the big time...

 

I can only go on what I have seen, and big call or not he oozes Charisma and X factor. As iterated in scratch match took the mark of the day ,then in another bit of play gathered the footy in traffic and kicked a 45 metre goal on the wrong side for a left footer. Understand the apprehension, but he has size, tank can mark and kick freak goals.

I for one am prepared to back him in.This also goes for Bowey and Bailey Laurie and anyone else who looks likely.For too long players who have underachieved have been gifted games. Not any more. Step up or get replaced. Welcome the next generation!

 

24 minutes ago, forever demons said:

Won't win a flag with team of boys Rivers ,Jackson Pickett ,etc are still very young it will take games to get them to 100%

Yes that may be the more regular figure but remember the Doggies won theirs at least 2 years before their time.

It doesn't mean ALL players have to have 100 games together but at least Half and the list contains a very solid group of younger players and a couple Or more of older ones with more games.

For instance Maysie Gawny BBB Hibbo Jets Jonesy TomMac Mitch Brown  and  Melky And Majak Daw are the latter.

The ideal age and 100 games are Trac Clarry Gus Langers Tommo Jack V Jake L Harmesy 
The third group is the one you are pointing the bone at Say too young and not enough games is the largest Including  Fritta Spargs Sparrow Jordon Pickett Jacko Riv Weid Lockhart Joel Smith Petty Chandler and Neitschke our draftees Rosman Laurie and Bowey plus any of the rookies Bradtke Farmer and Deakin Smith.

Apologies for any missed players from any category.

For a start  Choco has already burnt !!! Or torn up The 2020 draftees birth Certs indicating he doesn't think age and by association experience is the most vital attribute needed for Round1 selection.

Here is IMO our best chance of winning a flag this year if the team is selected  as below assuming all players are fit and available. A mix of all categories is necessary so that our best 22 plus emergencies is ready for that one game in September!!!

B    Lockhart   May  Lever 

HB   Rivers Petty Salem

C Rosman Petracca Langdon

HF Fritsch Tom Mac Spargo 

F  Pickett B Brown  Jackson

R  Gawn Oliver Viney 

I      Brayshaw Sparrow Laurie Weideman 

Emerg   Harmes  Bowey Jordon Tomlinson

If the 26 selected the following numbers are 

Above 100-200 games  (4) May Tom Mac Ben Brown Gawn

About 100 games and 4/6 seasons  (9) Lever Salem Petracca Langdon Oliver Viney Brayshaw Harmes Tomlinson

Under 4 seasons and 50 games  (13)   Lockhart Rivers Petty Rosman Fritsch Spargo Pickett Jackson Weideman  Laurie Sparrow Bowey Jordon

While most wont agree with this team,  or even if they do acknowledge our Premiership window is not open yet due to youth I believe that depending upon improvement injuries and game plan execution it's not that Far fetched for us to be in the Top 4 with the double chance.

There  are Player such as Hibbo  Jonesy and Joel Smith plus Chandler  Neitschke and the rookies who might be playing well enough to be considered in the top 22 or 26. 

Our list would undoubtedly  be Better this time next season with another 25 games into the third category but youth are resilient and won't hold back in their quest for  glory and Hero status.

2 minutes ago, 58er said:

Yes that may be the more regular figure but remember the Doggies won theirs at least 2 years before their time.

It doesn't mean ALL players have to have 100 games together but at least Half and the list contains a very solid group of younger players and a couple Or more of older ones with more games.

For instance Maysie Gawny BBB Hibbo Jets Jonesy TomMac Mitch Brown  and  Melky And Majak Daw are the latter.

The ideal age and 100 games are Trac Clarry Gus Langers Tommo Jack V Jake L Harmesy 
The third group is the one you are pointing the bone at Say too young and not enough games is the largest Including  Fritta Spargs Sparrow Jordon Pickett Jacko Riv Weid Lockhart Joel Smith Petty Chandler and Neitschke our draftees Rosman Laurie and Bowey plus any of the rookies Bradtke Farmer and Deakin Smith.

Apologies for any missed players from any category.

For a start  Choco has already burnt !!! Or torn up The 2020 draftees birth Certs indicating he doesn't think age and by association experience is the most vital attribute needed for Round1 selection.

Here is IMO our best chance of winning a flag this year if the team is selected  as below assuming all players are fit and available. A mix of all categories is necessary so that our best 22 plus emergencies is ready for that one game in September!!!

B    Lockhart   May  Lever 

HB   Rivers Petty Salem

C Rosman Petracca Langdon

HF Fritsch Tom Mac Spargo 

F  Pickett B Brown  Jackson

R  Gawn Oliver Viney 

I      Brayshaw Sparrow Laurie Weideman 

Emerg   Harmes  Bowey Jordon Tomlinson

If the 26 selected the following numbers are 

Above 100-200 games  (4) May Tom Mac Ben Brown Gawn

About 100 games and 4/6 seasons  (9) Lever Salem Petracca Langdon Oliver Viney Brayshaw Harmes Tomlinson

Under 4 seasons and 50 games  (13)   Lockhart Rivers Petty Rosman Fritsch Spargo Pickett Jackson Weideman  Laurie Sparrow Bowey Jordon

While most wont agree with this team,  or even if they do acknowledge our Premiership window is not open yet due to youth I believe that depending upon improvement injuries and game plan execution it's not that Far fetched for us to be in the Top 4 with the double chance.

There  are Player such as Hibbo  Jonesy and Joel Smith plus Chandler  Neitschke and the rookies who might be playing well enough to be considered in the top 22 or 26. 

Our list would undoubtedly  be Better this time next season with another 25 games into the third category but youth are resilient and won't hold back in their quest for  glory and Hero status.

Apologies for leaving out Jayden Hunt who I M O could easily exchange with Laurie Harmes or Tomlinson.

6 minutes ago, 58er said:

Apologies for leaving out Jayden Hunt who I M O could easily exchange with Laurie Harmes or Tomlinson.

Hunt offers a gazillion times more than Spargo surely!??

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Hunt offers a gazillion times more than Spargo surely!??

No not the " new" Spargo  Trackwatchers ( other than yourself obviously ) have remarked he is a:shoe in for around 1 His bulking up and boy becomes a man  body is leading to a much more involved and mature player.
I am a fan of Charlie as when he gets the ball a score or assist often result. That's in contrast to many you of our other forwards !

10 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Hunt offers a gazillion times more than Spargo surely!??

if you want speed and an occasional couple of goals - go with Hunt

if you want tackling, good delivery inside 50 and intensity - go with Spargo

neither is perfect

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Yes that may be the more regular figure but remember the Doggies won theirs at least 2 years before their time.

It doesn't mean ALL players have to have 100 games together but at least Half and the list contains a very solid group of younger players and a couple Or more of older ones with more games.

For instance Maysie Gawny BBB Hibbo Jets Jonesy TomMac Mitch Brown  and  Melky And Majak Daw are the latter.

The ideal age and 100 games are Trac Clarry Gus Langers Tommo Jack V Jake L Harmesy 
The third group is the one you are pointing the bone at Say too young and not enough games is the largest Including  Fritta Spargs Sparrow Jordon Pickett Jacko Riv Weid Lockhart Joel Smith Petty Chandler and Neitschke our draftees Rosman Laurie and Bowey plus any of the rookies Bradtke Farmer and Deakin Smith.

Apologies for any missed players from any category.

For a start  Choco has already burnt !!! Or torn up The 2020 draftees birth Certs indicating he doesn't think age and by association experience is the most vital attribute needed for Round1 selection.

Here is IMO our best chance of winning a flag this year if the team is selected  as below assuming all players are fit and available. A mix of all categories is necessary so that our best 22 plus emergencies is ready for that one game in September!!!

B    Lockhart   May  Lever 

HB   Rivers Petty Salem

C Rosman Petracca Langdon

HF Fritsch Tom Mac Spargo 

F  Pickett B Brown  Jackson

R  Gawn Oliver Viney 

I      Brayshaw Sparrow Laurie Weideman 

Emerg   Harmes  Bowey Jordon Tomlinson

If the 26 selected the following numbers are 

Above 100-200 games  (4) May Tom Mac Ben Brown Gawn

About 100 games and 4/6 seasons  (9) Lever Salem Petracca Langdon Oliver Viney Brayshaw Harmes Tomlinson

Under 4 seasons and 50 games  (13)   Lockhart Rivers Petty Rosman Fritsch Spargo Pickett Jackson Weideman  Laurie Sparrow Bowey Jordon

While most wont agree with this team,  or even if they do acknowledge our Premiership window is not open yet due to youth I believe that depending upon improvement injuries and game plan execution it's not that Far fetched for us to be in the Top 4 with the double chance.

There  are Player such as Hibbo  Jonesy and Joel Smith plus Chandler  Neitschke and the rookies who might be playing well enough to be considered in the top 22 or 26. 

Our list would undoubtedly  be Better this time next season with another 25 games into the third category but youth are resilient and won't hold back in their quest for  glory and Hero status.

Meh what a load of hypothetical rubbish ,what do drink .Shesss

2 hours ago, picket fence said:

I can only go on what I have seen, and big call or not he oozes Charisma and X factor. As iterated in scratch match took the mark of the day ,then in another bit of play gathered the footy in traffic and kicked a 45 metre goal on the wrong side for a left footer. Understand the apprehension, but he has size, tank can mark and kick freak goals.

I for one am prepared to back him in.This also goes for Bowey and Bailey Laurie and anyone else who looks likely.For too long players who have underachieved have been gifted games. Not any more. Step up or get replaced. Welcome the next generation!

 

Oh so you are saying its another rebuild.The new generation is going to take at least 5 yrs to get to grand final status.We have new support coaches new draftees new super forward (injured) other tall forward(injured)looks like another year of us getting spanked

31 minutes ago, forever demons said:

Oh so you are saying its another rebuild.The new generation is going to take at least 5 yrs to get to grand final status.We have new support coaches new draftees new super forward (injured) other tall forward(injured)looks like another year of us getting spanked

If we are reliant on young players to be the cake then we are in trouble, but a number of successful teams have had plenty of young players as the cream. 

Rivers, Pickett, Laurie and Bowey are flankers, almost by definition if they are picked it's not in roles that require brilliance or to be the most physical players. 

More will be expected of Jackson especially to start the year but his upside is that he doesn't have to do any one thing amazingly to play well because he's versatile. 

If Rosman gets a game then obviously he's in a physically demanding position but he seems physically ready

There's also plenty of examples of young players stepping in and helping change the feeling of a side even if they don't make it through the full season. 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

If we are reliant on young players to be the cake then we are in trouble, but a number of successful teams have had plenty of young players as the cream. 

Rivers, Pickett, Laurie and Bowey are flankers, almost by definition if they are picked it's not in roles that require brilliance or to be the most physical players. 

More will be expected of Jackson especially to start the year but his upside is that he doesn't have to do any one thing amazingly to play well because he's versatile. 

If Rosman gets a game then obviously he's in a physically demanding position but he seems physically ready

There's also plenty of examples of young players stepping in and helping change the feeling of a side even if they don't make it through the full season. 

I think the only thing that can be added to this is; the coach's believe he has the skills and mental fortitude to carry out the role. Boy in a man's body? We should see Friday if he has a boy's brain or a mature brain to go with his other attributes. If he answers those doubts, then he should play round 1 regardless of age.

2 hours ago, forever demons said:

Oh so you are saying its another rebuild.The new generation is going to take at least 5 yrs to get to grand final status.We have new support coaches new draftees new super forward (injured) other tall forward(injured)looks like another year of us getting spanked

No not saying that at all ! Remember the Baby Bombers? Play em and blood them NOW No rebuild or remake or anything !! Time is NOW

5 hours ago, forever demons said:

Meh what a load of hypothetical rubbish ,what do drink .Shesss

Well give some detail and reasons that this can't occur this year or 2022!?

Thats what we build a list around and give the players a chance to perform under our Coaching panel  and Environment.

10 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

If we are reliant on young players to be the cake then we are in trouble, but a number of successful teams have had plenty of young players as the cream. 

Rivers, Pickett, Laurie and Bowey are flankers, almost by definition if they are picked it's not in roles that require brilliance or to be the most physical players. 

More will be expected of Jackson especially to start the year but his upside is that he doesn't have to do any one thing amazingly to play well because he's versatile. 

If Rosman gets a game then obviously he's in a physically demanding position but he seems physically ready

There's also plenty of examples of young players stepping in and helping change the feeling of a side even if they don't make it through the full season. 

That's having a bet each way DS !

Saying "flankers" Like Rivers Pickett Laurie and Bowery don't  have to do grunt work Or be brilliant is odd. And then even if it happens it won't be a full season But it might change the feel of the team.! 

I am thinking you have phased this clumsily and mean that the younger players if used don't have to be the stars but play a role to support the more established players such as Trac May Gawny and the established more experienced group.

Your doubt that it would last the full season is even odder given that recruits are managed these days to get through the season.

And finally Rosman has the goods to play and should as he is physically big enough even though it's a demanding position. If he's good enough he should play as any of our new players from recent drafts or even Lockhart Sparrow and Jordon if they are showing form good enough compared to say Melksham or ANB or Vsnders.

Some of Our good players of 2018 have not  produced  since then including Harmsey and need to earn their spot in 2021.

That  will  Enable improvement in the team with all contributing equally to the team cause In line with their roles and ability.

 

15 hours ago, 58er said:

For instance Maysie Gawny BBB Hibbo Jets Jonesy TomMac Mitch Brown  and  Melky And Majak Daw are the latter.

The ideal age and 100 games are Trac Clarry Gus Langers Tommo Jack V Jake L Harmesy

Our issue has not been blooding younger players. None of the youngsters let us down last year. They may have been inconsistent but none looked out of place and in Jackson and Rivers we have 200+game players. Pickett too if he can develop some composure.

Our senior players have been consistently letting us down. Other than May, Gawn, Trac and Clarry all those players listed have had inconsistent or injury affected recent seasons. Jetta and Jones have been warriors but are now barely best 22.

There's a lot depending on that group of senior players. I don't think it's a strong leadership group compared to Richmond, Geelong, Port or even Brisbane. I think we need a good start and get wins on the board against Freo and the Saints to get some momentum and give us time to get BB up to speed (he is critical to our success). Start badly and i wouldn't have confidence this group can turn it around.

34 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

Our issue has not been blooding younger players. None of the youngsters let us down last year. They may have been inconsistent but none looked out of place and in Jackson and Rivers we have 200+game players. Pickett too if he can develop some composure.

Our senior players have been consistently letting us down. Other than May, Gawn, Trac and Clarry all those players listed have had inconsistent or injury affected recent seasons. Jetta and Jones have been warriors but are now barely best 22.

There's a lot depending on that group of senior players. I don't think it's a strong leadership group compared to Richmond, Geelong, Port or even Brisbane. I think we need a good start and get wins on the board against Freo and the Saints to get some momentum and give us time to get BB up to speed (he is critical to our success). Start badly and i wouldn't have confidence this group can turn it around.

BDA thanks 

Agree with your summary Of our more experienced players and Hibbo had a good year ( and is unlucky to miss in my team ) but Langers Clarry Trac ( especially) plus Salem's last half also IMO all we're reliable and near Or in best seasons performance mode.

Agree that TomMac Melksham Gus Jake L Viney ( not far off) Harmes and on the wing Only Tommo were all inconsistent and will need to lift their game fir us to go to smother level.

But it's the young group I think we will get a big lift out of without putting too much pressure on each of them individually.

Other factors  such as better  training and much improved match day decision making plus game plan tweaking etc. can lift us by 20% in a lot of areas.