14 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Wait, so Joel Smith is now a defender and we won’t look to play him forward? Where does Goodwin think our goals are coming from? He has everyone playing back. Harmes, probably our most attacking mid is down there. Smith. Salem. Oscar. Is there any chance we could get some support for McDonald up forward. Or we gonna leave it to the undersized Fritsch? Maybe he will try Spargo at FF. It wouldn’t surprise me. Surely Weiderman or Jackson come in for Brown, who was deplorable against WCE.

Smith has missed so much footy,  and is yet to establish himself in the senior team.   Its best for him to start back,  in defence,  to find some form and confidence.

2 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Smith has missed so much footy,  and is yet to establish himself in the senior team.   Its best for him to start back,  in defence,  to find some form and confidence.

Been wondering for a while if they should trial Weideman down back to get his hands on the ball and build some form. He appears to have the basics to be a good footballer, perhaps a bit more aggression would help but it’s not easy to be a consistent KPF. 

2 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Been wondering for a while if they should trial Weideman down back to get his hands on the ball and build some form. He appears to have the basics to be a good footballer, perhaps a bit more aggression would help but it’s not easy to be a consistent KPF. 

Possibly 'EH'.   But he (Weide) has to start as a tall forward to begin with,  whilst Smith plays back,  in my mind.   As the season progresses,  IF Weide is struggling for form,  then we could swap the two of them,  during a game.

- - - - -

I do not think we should rush Jackson into the side;  as we've mucked up too many kids in our past,  by not making them earn, and hold a position, in the team.  Either they star,  and having made it too easily,  get a big head,  and so a lazy attitude to the game, and our team....  or they struggle and get burnt by opposition,  damaging their confidence and psyche.

10 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Been wondering for a while if they should trial Weideman down back to get his hands on the ball and build some form. He appears to have the basics to be a good footballer, perhaps a bit more aggression would help but it’s not easy to be a consistent KPF. 

agreed. They need him to get his hands on it more and gain confidence. As a roaming ruck he is able to build up possessions and can read the game well in genral play but up forward is slow to react.

 

Darcy Moore looked pathetic up forward at times but now down back looks great.

It couldn't hurt to play him down back.

T Mac's form is a mystery. Does anyone know anything about what's going on with him. From memory he had both ankles operated on at the end of 2018 and was clearly hampered last year and lost form. He looked woefully out of form in round 1. From what I could tell he seemed to have lost pace so that the defenders were easily all over him every time he was going for the ball. Maybe the break will have helped him to get his body right and get some pace back if that is the issue. Otherwise he appears to be following on being really badly out of form following on from last year.  If he comes back in form it will make all the difference having one KPF instead of none like round 1. 

1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

Been wondering for a while if they should trial Weideman down back to get his hands on the ball and build some form. He appears to have the basics to be a good footballer, perhaps a bit more aggression would help but it’s not easy to be a consistent KPF. 

Seems clear as day that they should. His best ever game against the Cats came when he got a stack of touches in the ruck and kept that belief up forward. In most games he gets his hands to about 8 marks and takes about 1 of them, with mental or physical pressure causing him to spill plenty. Down back you don't have a defender crashing in to you and you simply have to hold your marks or you'll cost the team, he'll quickly start holding his marks and hopefully keep that confidence.

He's also one of the best clean handballers on both sides of his body on the list and isn't a bad field kick so he shouldn't be a total turnover merchant. We can't waste a year of his development right now, if he can't get a game up forward we have to get him games down back.

15 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Absolutely could be. The forward stuff was from people not currently involved at the club, they were more talking about him as a player in general. He definitely is unique. Thoughts on Tomlinson potentially playing as a forward/ruck at times? (Obviously penciled in for mostly the wing, but not many players stay in the one spot for a whole game these days).

Am I alone in thinking there's a bit of Buddy about Jackson? Give him some time to fill out and what defender is going to be able to outlaw, outrun and outbody him?

35 minutes ago, It's Time said:

T Mac's form is a mystery. Does anyone know anything about what's going on with him. From memory he had both ankles operated on at the end of 2018 and was clearly hampered last year and lost form. He looked woefully out of form in round 1. From what I could tell he seemed to have lost pace so that the defenders were easily all over him every time he was going for the ball. Maybe the break will have helped him to get his body right and get some pace back if that is the issue. Otherwise he appears to be following on being really badly out of form following on from last year.  If he comes back in form it will make all the difference having one KPF instead of none like round 1. 

For mine, he never looked better than in early 2018 when he and Hogan were getting up the ground. His edge is his endurance, but the game plan doesn't seem to recognise that.....

16 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Absolutely could be. The forward stuff was from people not currently involved at the club, they were more talking about him as a player in general. He definitely is unique. Thoughts on Tomlinson potentially playing as a forward/ruck at times? (Obviously penciled in for mostly the wing, but not many players stay in the one spot for a whole game these days).

We were crying out for two wingmen at the end of 2019 andwent out and got the two best that we could.  The only way/reason we would shift Tomlinson from that role would be if someone like Baker has come on, and there was an opportunity to move Tomlinson forward.

It's a huge no from me at this stage.

 

3 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

We were crying out for two wingmen at the end of 2019 andwent out and got the two best that we could.  The only way/reason we would shift Tomlinson from that role would be if someone like Baker has come on, and there was an opportunity to move Tomlinson forward.

It's a huge no from me at this stage.

As mentioned in my post, I'm not suggesting we shift him from that role, I'm suggesting he could potentially play as a forward/ruck at times while mostly playing on the wing. Players rotate around at a high rate these days, I don't think we'll find Tomlinson playing 100% of his time on the wing.

7 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

We were crying out for two wingmen at the end of 2019 andwent out and got the two best that we could.  The only way/reason we would shift Tomlinson from that role would be if someone like Baker has come on, and there was an opportunity to move Tomlinson forward.

It's a huge no from me at this stage.

 

 

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

As mentioned in my post, I'm not suggesting we shift him from that role, I'm suggesting he could potentially play as a forward/ruck at times while mostly playing on the wing. Players rotate around at a high rate these days, I don't think we'll find Tomlinson playing 100% of his time on the wing.

The shorter quarters actually favour someone like Baker or Hunt, explosive speed guys without the tanks to do 85% of 20 minute quarters on the wings which is what Tomlinson was bought in for. 

I just don't think Tomlinson is all that good in the ruck, not an upgrade on Weid or Jackson, and I don't think he's much of a forward either. He's not all that tall, isn't quick or powerful or a good mark. If he were to play forward I'd expect it would be as a high motor CHF type and we've got plenty of that already.

Plan A seems to be to have Tomlinson and Langdon do 85-100% of game time on the wings so the team benefits from their positioning, discipline and high motors and then use the extra rotations on keeping the forward line motoring. Barring injuries or suspension I think we'll give that a month at least to see if it works.

If Vanders and Bennell can get back then we're looking at some different options on the wings/half forwards and might be able to mix things up a bit

20 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

As mentioned in my post, I'm not suggesting we shift him from that role, I'm suggesting he could potentially play as a forward/ruck at times while mostly playing on the wing. Players rotate around at a high rate these days, I don't think we'll find Tomlinson playing 100% of his time on the wing.

Didn't say you suggested it.  You asked L36 for their thoughts, I chopped in and gave you mine.  I didn't like the idea, and gave you reasons for my views.

1 minute ago, DeeSpencer said:

The shorter quarters actually favour someone like Baker or Hunt, explosive speed guys without the tanks to do 85% of 20 minute quarters on the wings which is what Tomlinson was bought in for. 

I just don't think Tomlinson is all that good in the ruck, not an upgrade on Weid or Jackson, and I don't think he's much of a forward either. He's not all that tall, isn't quick or powerful or a good mark. If he were to play forward I'd expect it would be as a high motor CHF type and we've got plenty of that already.

Plan A seems to be to have Tomlinson and Langdon do 85-100% of game time on the wings so the team benefits from their positioning, discipline and high motors and then use the extra rotations on keeping the forward line motoring. Barring injuries or suspension I think we'll give that a month at least to see if it works.

If Vanders and Bennell can get back then we're looking at some different options on the wings/half forwards and might be able to mix things up a bit

Didn't say Tomlinson was any good in the ruck, but we've seen him playing that role already this year (to be fair, mostly in preseason though). Means Weid/Brown/Jackson can play forward of the ball giving us a much needed target there, rather than being high up the ground should we win it.

Shorter quarters won't make the disposal of Hunt any better, and personally I'm still holding out judgment on Baker (as much as I like the endeavour of the kid).

Bennell is exciting, but tempering expectations. vandnBerg is cooked.

Anyway, was raising a question, not making a statement.

4 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Didn't say you suggested it.  You asked L36 for their thoughts, I chopped in and gave you mine.  I didn't like the idea, and gave you reasons for my views.

Fair enough mate.

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Didn't say Tomlinson was any good in the ruck, but we've seen him playing that role already this year (to be fair, mostly in preseason though). Means Weid/Brown/Jackson can play forward of the ball giving us a much needed target there, rather than being high up the ground should we win it.

Shorter quarters won't make the disposal of Hunt any better, and personally I'm still holding out judgment on Baker (as much as I like the endeavour of the kid).

Bennell is exciting, but tempering expectations. vandnBerg is cooked.

Anyway, was raising a question, not making a statement.

And people are answering it with why they don't think it would work.

Probably be best if you didn't raise questions if you are going to get precious about the possibility of someone not agreeing with it, or saying something that you don't want to hear.

Just now, The Chazz said:

And people are answering it with why they don't think it would work.

Probably be best if you didn't raise questions if you are going to get precious about the possibility of someone not agreeing with it, or saying something that you don't want to hear.

We're having discussions here. Not sure why you think people have to agree, we all see things differently. Nowhere have I got mad or made personal comments or anything like that.

Play the ball and talk footy hey?

6 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

We're having discussions here. Not sure why you think people have to agree, we all see things differently. Nowhere have I got mad or made personal comments or anything like that.

Play the ball and talk footy hey?

You float a suggestion (or in your words, raise a question) about a positional shift, give reasons why it could work, then when someone doesn't agree, you hide behind the "I didn't say that it should happen", or "I'm raising a question, not making a statement".

Here, I'll paraphrase and see if you can see what you do...

Lord Nev - Thoughts on playing Tomlinson up forward and ruck?

Chazz - Leave him on the wing.

Lord Nev - I'm not suggesting we shift him, but he could play forward/ruck at times...

or this...

Lord Nev - Thoughts on playing Tomlinson up forward and ruck?

Deespencer - I don't think Tomlinson is very good in the ruck.

Lord Nev - Didn't say he was good in the ruck, but we've seen him play there before and if he does, it would free up other forwards.

Anybody know the actual state of Petty's injury/fitness state and readiness of selection. I'm a believer, preferably back but sometimes forward if we need. Fit and I'd pick him this week

1 hour ago, Grr-owl said:

For mine, he never looked better than in early 2018 when he and Hogan were getting up the ground. His edge is his endurance, but the game plan doesn't seem to recognise that.....

From memory he was injured early and came back into the side for round 6. We were struggling at 2-3 but we comfortably beat the Bombers and then put together a reasonable winning sequence. It was no coincidence that this was when Tom came back into the side. And you're right about him being played up the ground to capitalise on his endurance, there were games where we started him on the wing. I would revisit that tactic and have him play at CHF not FF, Wed I think can only be played at FF with a run in the ruck. Mark it down if TMac doesn't have a reasonable season we are in deep you know what.

26 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Didn't say Tomlinson was any good in the ruck, but we've seen him playing that role already this year (to be fair, mostly in preseason though). Means Weid/Brown/Jackson can play forward of the ball giving us a much needed target there, rather than being high up the ground should we win it.

Shorter quarters won't make the disposal of Hunt any better, and personally I'm still holding out judgment on Baker (as much as I like the endeavour of the kid).

Bennell is exciting, but tempering expectations. vandnBerg is cooked.

Anyway, was raising a question, not making a statement.

Keeping the forwards in the forward line is a good point. That's a big part of why the Giants used Tomlinson as they did. The 3 tall fowards they had were dangerous.

If any pair of McDonald, Brown or Weid were doing very well up forward then you'd want to keep them there for the full game. Jackson I feel a little different with because I want to see him do small bursts in the ruck and show off that upside. The short quarters are also a consideration here because once Gawn hits full match fitness he could ruck even more than he currently does (in percentage terms).

One of the other big considerations is I'm sure we pitched Tomlinson time to settle in a position and show his talent with the ball (whatever that may be). I think he lost a few kilos of bulk over summer in order to play that wing role. That said, Richmond sold Caddy on the idea of more midfield time before he had his best ever season as an undersized key forward.

4 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I'm honestly thinking Goodwin's a seriously out of form coach at the moment, from a tactical point of view.

 

Goodwin tries to get too cute.

Instead of addressing the most obvious issues he tries to be clever with these kinds of moves and changes.

18 hours ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

See I heard that Goodwin planned to play Jackson as a midfielder. 

That’s the END game 2-6 years down track - he will play fwd in 10-11 days time. Smith will be used as pinch-hitter up Fwd when matchups suit, Mark it down. Club sees Petty as a KEY FWD prospect don’t buy that website BS!!! 

So, no training being reported on then?

That's 5 minutes I wouldn't mind having back.

1 hour ago, The Chazz said:

You float a suggestion (or in your words, raise a question) about a positional shift, give reasons why it could work, then when someone doesn't agree, you hide behind the "I didn't say that it should happen", or "I'm raising a question, not making a statement".

Here, I'll paraphrase and see if you can see what you do...

Lord Nev - Thoughts on playing Tomlinson up forward and ruck?

Chazz - Leave him on the wing.

Lord Nev - I'm not suggesting we shift him, but he could play forward/ruck at times...

or this...

Lord Nev - Thoughts on playing Tomlinson up forward and ruck?

Deespencer - I don't think Tomlinson is very good in the ruck.

Lord Nev - Didn't say he was good in the ruck, but we've seen him play there before and if he does, it would free up other forwards.

Sorry mate, hear to talk about the actual footy rather than try to point score with personal battles.

Cheers.

57 minutes ago, bing181 said:

So, no training being reported on then?

That's 5 minutes I wouldn't mind having back.

Would love to at least know who of the injured players pre shut down are doing the full training in the main group and are looking fit enough to be picked for the next game.  

If all players are fit enough with possible exception of Bennell and possibly Hannan, will be really interested to see what the team will be.