7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You have serious issues

This thread has shown that other people share my view mate. And you're clearly just reluctant to admit that he isn't a forward.

 

7 hours ago, Pates said:

I love watching Jackson play and develop, and it makes my heart soar hearing that it's down to Gawn on when Jackson goes into that are as I feel that Gawn is not just being a captain, but a mentor/on-field ruck coach. I've got no doubt that Max can read when things are a bit tighter and they need his experience in there, but allowing Jackson to have more ruck time (and there's no doubt he's getting it) is just absolutely brilliant. 

That all said, Jackson keeps being inches away from the big breakout game. That isn't a shot at his because he's only 19, but it's almost excruciating at seeing the hands have good purchase on the ball but not hold the grab, or his rove his on taps and it doesn't quite get the clean possession. It will happen this year, I would just about take that to the bank. In the meantime I'll enjoy the moments that Max allows him to take more responsibility in the ruck.

@Dr.D it's hard to work out whether you're a troll or just dim. His role as a forward on paper is largely structural, have a look at his heatmap. He's being played more as a ruck/wing/onballer, his actual time deep as a forward is relatively minimal. Where he's being named on the teamsheet is largely irrelevant. 

 Do you think that's because he hasn't shown any forward craft so they've shifted him. I think that that's more likely the case which I have no issues with because he does a lot of good things up the ground.

Another pick we've nailed. He will be a beast of a player for us.

Kozzie, LJ and Rivers will go down in the history books as our super draft. Jason Taylor take a bow.

 

15 hours ago, monoccular said:

Anyone old enough to remember MFC premierships will remember the invincible Jet Jackson, flying commando TV series.  
 

That’d be me. Don’t forget Ichabod Mudd (with two Ds).

1 hour ago, Better days ahead said:

Another pick we've nailed. He will be a beast of a player for us.

Kozzie, LJ and Rivers will go down in the history books as our super draft. Jason Taylor take a bow.

 

So maybe 2019 was worth it after all?

20 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

He’s been great around the ground when playing in the ruck, but he’s really struggled up forward. He’s not sticking the marks yet and hasn’t kicked a goal all season I don’t think?

His work around the ground is great though. He’s really sharp with following up the ground balls and his positioning around packs. He’s also a decent link option during play too. Going very well for a second year tall/ruck. Just needs to start sticking those marks and he’ll become a real danger for oppositions!

I’m not convinced he’s ever going to be a forward. He will spend a few minutes there like Max does, but his strength will be playing as an extra mid. 
He does a great job currently at ground level and also bringing ball to ground in the air. Once he starts nailing his marks around the ground, watch out. 
He can be an amazing winger. 

19 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

I think Jackson suffers from the fact that he looks so much less like a young ruck/forward than most young ruck/forwards do. He moves so smoothly and with so much coordination that he gets judged like he's a 25 year old. He actually looks too good for his age so people can get fooled into judging his forward play like he's a mature player like Tom McDonald.  

But he's 19. He's a ruck forward. What he's doing is remarkable. He was beating Ben McEvoy, a 31 year old premiership ruckman comfortably in the ruck and then spreading like a midfielder. He's beaten or halved against every mature AFL ruckman he's played this year. He's a viable forward target against mature AFL key defenders. And he's 19. He has more contested marks this season than any player his age or younger. He gets his hands to more than others because he's much, much better than others. He's 19.

McEvoy didn't have as many hitouts as Jackson had yesterday until he was nearly 22 in his 4th season. Lycett was nearly 22. Nankervis didn't even play until he was 22. Jordan Roughead was 24. Max Bailey was nearly 23. Mike Pyke was 25. Brad Ottens was 19. Darren Jolly was 21. That's all of the premiership number 1 rucks for the last 11 years, and they all first got 22+ hitouts when they were playing as a solo/leading ruck, not as a key forward who gave the number 1 a chop out when he was tired. 

I feel a bit sorry for those who can't appreciate what Jackson is doing. This should be a time of wonder and enjoyment at a kid who is doing phenomenal things at this stage of his career. Sit back and enjoy it.

I also think he’s getting overshadowed by Kosi who is just so exciting and created a buzz. But he, and let’s add in Rivers holding down a defensive spot like a 27 year old!, are just as impressive. 

1 hour ago, Baghdad Bob said:

So maybe 2019 was worth it after all?

Ive actually thought this....our horrific 2019 season allowed us to inject 3 fantastic kids which have transformed the side, similar to what Port did with Rozee, Duursma and Butters: not that we deliberately played like rubbish in 2019 but in hindsight... 

He’s going well, he’s a jet. 

But he better start taking those grabs otherwise we are running out of people to drop and our best 22 might say Weed can back up Gawn...

But I saw him in the flesh a few weeks ago and he is getting to the right spots now, and the next thing to click are those grabs.

7 hours ago, Dr.D said:

This thread has shown that other people share my view mate. And you're clearly just reluctant to admit that he isn't a forward.

 

How about you quote them on here and I'll quote the ones that actually disagree with you..

 

Those that are saying he's not a forward (including the poster who is most definitely not a doctor), watch the Hawthorn game again. If he's not a KPF, he does a pretty bloody good job of lead up marking across half forward and the wing, and almost always brings the ball to ground in the forwardline. That is what we want from an emerging KPF.

In the meantime, his agility around the ground will eventually enable us to play Brown and Weideman as the key talls. It's clear the club has set McDonald for a similar role to Jackson once Brown and Weideman are fit. It could even be as early as this week.

This is what a modern footy side looks like. Agile 195-200cm talls running defenders off their feet and outmarking them in the air or bringing it to ground for smalls to go to work.

Edited April 20, 20214 yr by A F

32 minutes ago, sisso said:

Ive actually thought this....our horrific 2019 season allowed us to inject 3 fantastic kids which have transformed the side, similar to what Port did with Rozee, Duursma and Butters: not that we deliberately played like rubbish in 2019 but in hindsight... 

Getting in another two first rounders in Bowey and Laurie might also prove similar outcomes. Saw great signs in Bowey on the weekend to suggest he can play some AFL games this year and make an impact. His first VFL game debut he had 23 disposals. 

Good signs ahead.

11 minutes ago, A F said:

Those that are saying he's not a forward (including the poster who is most definitely not a doctor), watch the Hawthorn game again. If he's not a KPF, he does a pretty bloody good job of lead up marking across half forward and the wing, and almost always brings the ball to ground in the forwardline. That is what we want from an emerging KPF.

In the meantime, his agility around the ground will eventually enable us to play Brown and Weideman as the key talls. It's clear the club has set McDonald for a similar role to Jackson once Brown and Weideman are fit. It could even be as early as this week.

This is what a modern footy side looks like. Agile 195-200cm talls running defenders off their feet and outmarking them in the air or bringing it to ground for smalls to go to work.

at some point a forward needs to kick goals. 

13 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

How about you quote them on here and I'll quote the ones that actually disagree with you..

 

the same ones you quote were probably the same ones that vouched for Watts, Bate, Tapscott, Strauss, Maric, Cale Morton, Toumpas etc. It's true. Some supporters can't see the forest for the trees because they are so wrapped up in their own bias. Surely you can see that Jackson isn't a forward. Others have already identified it. 

13 minutes ago, A F said:

Those that are saying he's not a forward (including the poster who is most definitely not a doctor), watch the Hawthorn game again. If he's not a KPF, he does a pretty bloody good job of lead up marking across half forward and the wing, and almost always brings the ball to ground in the forwardline. That is what we want from an emerging KPF.

In the meantime, his agility around the ground will eventually enable us to play Brown and Weideman as the key talls. It's clear the club has set McDonald for a similar role to Jackson once Brown and Weideman are fit. It could even be as early as this week.

This is what a modern footy side looks like. Agile 195-200cm talls running defenders off their feet and outmarking them in the air or bringing it to ground for smalls to go to work.

I don't think he can't be a forward, I just think that he would be wasted there as a permanent stay at home forward. 

He is too agile and creative, and his ruckwork is already so good, that with Gawn being 29, I can see Jackson becoming a true ruck rover in the future. 

As Gawn slows down, having Jackson play more minutes as first ruck will help us to extend Gawn's career. Already I put down Gawn's extraordinary form this year to finally having real support in the ruck from Jackson. 

7 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

the same ones you quote were probably the same ones that vouched for Watts, Bate, Tapscott, Strauss, Maric, Cale Morton, Toumpas etc. It's true. Some supporters can't see the forest for the trees because they are so wrapped up in their own bias. Surely you can see that Jackson isn't a forward. Others have already identified it. 

Yeah nah no need to try and change the narrative to suit your agenda. Don't bring past contexts into this otherwise I'll dig up some of your shockers you've had over the journey.

Keep it on the current topic.

8 hours ago, Dr.D said:

This thread has shown that other people share my view mate. And you're clearly just reluctant to admit that he isn't a forward.

 

I assume Daz was referring to the narcissism. 

Correct me if I'm wrong @dazzledavey36!

13 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I don't think he can't be a forward, I just think that he would be wasted there as a permanent stay at home forward. 

He is too agile and creative, and his ruckwork is already so good, that with Gawn being 29, I can see Jackson becoming a true ruck rover in the future. 

As Gawn slows down, having Jackson play more minutes as first ruck will help us to extend Gawn's career. Already I put down Gawn's extraordinary form this year to finally having real support in the ruck from Jackson. 

Agree Jaded. I think that Jackson is a forward in the same way Tracc is, in that he's a burst midfielder who can also impact going forward.

Imagine teams trying to plan for those two rotating through the middle and forward lines...

Also on Jackson up forward, when Weid and Brown are our talls, and Jackson gets the opposition 3rd tall back, watch out! as it should be brutal.

Go Dees

Edited April 20, 20214 yr by PaulRB

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

He’s going well, he’s a jet. 

But he better start taking those grabs otherwise we are running out of people to drop and our best 22 might say Weed can back up Gawn...

But I saw him in the flesh a few weeks ago and he is getting to the right spots now, and the next thing to click are those grabs.

I know he doesn't hold the marks, but gee it looks like he "drops" them into the lap of a crumbing player with enough consistenty and control that you'd think it was on purpose.

24 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

the same ones you quote were probably the same ones that vouched for Watts, Bate, Tapscott, Strauss, Maric, Cale Morton, Toumpas etc. It's true. Some supporters can't see the forest for the trees because they are so wrapped up in their own bias. Surely you can see that Jackson isn't a forward. Others have already identified it. 

His forward craft is excellent.

He is 19 years of age and 200cm.... and a latecomer to the game.

He will play wherever he is needed on the park in time.  With luck he will be a star of the game and hopefully a one club Melbourne legend.

2 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

So maybe 2019 was worth it after all?

Every cloud has a silver lining

9 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Agree Jaded. I think that Jackson is a forward in the same way Tracc is, in that he's a burst midfielder who can also impact going forward.

Imagine teams trying to plan for those two rotating through the middle and forward lines...

Also on Jackson up forward, when Weid and Brown are our talls, and Jackson gets the opposition 3rd tall back, watch out! as it should be brutal.

Go Dees

you're dead right there mate. Jackson is doing a good job at the moment to keep a key defender busy for a kid who has only played about a dozen games. when he gets some more support in the air it's going to become a lot easier for him when he's not the main man that they have to worry about. he is going to be a real impact player for us when he pushes forward in the future.

Has anyone pointed out that with 2:45 left in the 3rd quarter Jackson takes a big contested mark in the goal square which the umpire paid....  then for some reason T Mac was allowed to swoop on the ball and steal the goal.

What rule is that?  LJ was robbed of a contested mark and goal.

If anything T macs game was overrated and LJs was underrated.

Luke Jackson is probably the main reason why Max is currently leading the coaching votes and will push for a Brownlow this year.

Max's mobility across the ground has been on display and improved greatly, he's making so many more marking contests and looking strong in every one of them. In previous years ruckman have attacked Max, battering him at ruck contests and wearing him down physically. The support Jackson is providing is crucial for Max to be freed up to float forward and back with maintaining energy to compete hard every contest. Huge.

It's an interesting question who or what is Luke Jackson. 

When he was recruited I was very worried he was going to be an inbetweeny. Not tall enough to be a first ruckman, not good enough as a forward. When Jason Taylor talked about him pre draft he mentioned that he hadn't been playing long and his rate of development over the previous season had been phenomenal. Or words to that effect. 

The kids 19 and he's played 11 games. His rate or should I say speed of development has been nothing short of phenomenal. Not only his play but his physical development. After one season he is already able to compete physically against seasoned rucks like Blicavs and Stanely. 

He's already shown enough to me that I don't have doubts about him being a legitimate ruckman. His vertical leap more than makes up for his lack in height for a ruckman. His innate footy IQ is elite. You can't teach what he's got. 

It's a more complex argument about his performance as a key forward. If you base it just on scoring like Dr D then 1 goal 2 points is a fail.  But lets be honest here the kid wasn't recruited as a key forward and he clearly won't be one in his career. He's going to be a hybrid ruck/midfielder/resting forward. He's 19 and because of injuries, in his 7th to 11th games has been forced to play as a KPF taking the first or second best key defender with virtually no physical backup as T Mac has played a lot up the ground. Even so he's played a very good role competing in the air, not letting defenders get easy marks and clearances, knocking it down to our smalls and providing follow up pressure. That's all been very valuable but ultimately he won't hold out our 2 genuine key forwards. The dilemma for Goody will be when to bring them in and how to shuffle the rest of the team. They are saying they are now both fully fit so do you disrupt the continuity of the team to bring 3 players back including Fritsch into the front 6 in the same game against the Premiers. There is a longterm benefit in getting games into them to learn to play together but in the short term you'd expect it is going to be quite disruptive. Tigers played Pickett in the ruck last week so you don't need a second ruckman. T Mac or Weid would be a win in the ruck. Maybe BBB could do with another week in the seconds. I can't see Weid being left out he's an obvious in for M Brown. If it wasn't for an argument about disruption I would be bringing Weid and BBB in and giving Jacko a rest just this week because of matchups but I don't think that will happen. I think the disruption argument will win out and it will just be Weid and Fritsch this week. I think there will be games this year Jacko is rested from to help team balance and to give him a rest and have him cherry ripe for the finals.