Its the forward line stupid

[old dee 23,494]

57 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Over the years, I must have studied the attributes of a far greater number of good-to-very talented MFC players than you have Lord Nev and hence, formed the view of the Weed as a consequence. Sorry, it was just my opinion and that of others who have contributed their thoughts on the same player to this site. If it brushes your opinion with barbs, just ignore it. Your comment is like labelling theory: meaningless. Thanks, anyway.

How dare you have a differing opinion Deemania.

Edited December 4, 2019 by old dee

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 hour ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Over the years, I must have studied the attributes of a far greater number of good-to-very talented MFC players than you have Lord Nev and hence, formed the view of the Weed as a consequence. Sorry, it was just my opinion and that of others who have contributed their thoughts on the same player to this site. If it brushes your opinion with barbs, just ignore it. Your comment is like labelling theory: meaningless. Thanks, anyway.

See the difference is; I will look at individual players and form my own assessment based on their individual circumstances.

But given you're making assumptions about me and my experience and knowledge without having ever met me nor conversed with me before; then it seems you don't use much factual evidence when forming your opinions.

 

[Deemania since 56 6,557]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

See the difference is; I will look at individual players and form my own assessment based on their individual circumstances.

But given you're making assumptions about me and my experience and knowledge without having ever met me nor conversed with me before; then it seems you don't use much factual evidence when forming your opinions.

 

Generalisations only. That's is why I cannot truly '...get a grip...', as you recommended. The comment is meaningless and if you align yourself to it, what else could one assume now? Further, it was naive to suggest it was a character reference in the first place. Just have a lovely day and evening, to come. 

[Macca 16,620]

8 hours ago, old dee said:

I agree Macca the earlier the pick the greater expectation. It trick is to judge when it is time to move on. the success rate of early picks is not high. 

Keeping first round draft picks around for a lot longer doesn't bother me though old dee.  Up to 15 spots with each club or sometimes even more are speculative anyway.  Whether unproven,  hoping for improvement or to play back-up roles,  there are often any number of spots on the list filled by players who haven't really done a great deal (and often,  they never will)

The choice can sometimes come down to a non-established 1st round draft pick heading into his 5th or 6th year vs a delisted free agent or some speculative pick later in the draft.  So the decision to persevere with certain players is largely forced upon the clubs anyway.

In a nutshell,  a large amount of NQR's end up getting replaced by other NQR's.  Or you keep the non-established players around and hope that they can somehow improve.   There's close to 900 players in the system but how many of those 900 are genuine Elite,  A Grade or B+ players?  Maybe 100-120?

[old dee 23,494]

41 minutes ago, Macca said:

Keeping first round draft picks around for a lot longer doesn't bother me though old dee.  Up to 15 spots with each club or sometimes even more are speculative anyway.  Whether unproven,  hoping for improvement or to play back-up roles,  there are often any number of spots on the list filled by players who haven't really done a great deal (and often,  they never will)

The choice can sometimes come down to a non-established 1st round draft pick heading into his 5th or 6th year vs a delisted free agent or some speculative pick later in the draft.  So the decision to persevere with certain players is largely forced upon the clubs anyway.

In a nutshell,  a large amount of NQR's end up getting replaced by other NQR's.  Or you keep the non-established players around and hope that they can somehow improve.   There's close to 900 players in the system but how many of those 900 are genuine Elite,  A Grade or B+ players?  Maybe 100-120?

All that may be true but as I said the trick is knowing when to cut.

[Macca 16,620]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

All that may be true but as I said the trick is knowing when to cut.

And my point is that you can cut a player who was drafted in the top 20 but a lot of the time the expectations were never going to be met anyway.  

Again,  clubs are forced to keep any number of NQR's on their lists because they have no other choice.  One could make a great argument that under 18 form is largely overrated but the best AFL players are often standout under 18 players as well.  It's very confusing to many but the chaotic results & disorder has a certain consistency if that's what you know is possibly coming your way.

I suspect the same argument will still be around in 10 - 20 years time.  We keep searching for the absolute answers but there are none. 

Reality is that clubs will 'generally' give a first round pick multiple chances and often other clubs will step in and take over said player and do the same.  And that is not going to change in a hurry either.  Over 30 years of drafting and that's what we continually see.  

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Macca

[nosoupforme 3,085]

On 11/29/2019 at 12:52 PM, Fat Tony said:

I am a bit disappointed to hear that Joel Smith is training with the backs. I would like to see him play forward, as I actually think a smaller forward line including McDonald, Smith, Fritsch, Melksham, Petracca and a small forward could be our best combination.

J Smith has played 11 games since round 1 in 2017.  What do you see  that l cannot see? I wish him the best for 2020 and hope he can accumulate games consistently and be injury free.

He is well back in the pack and hasn't shown much. IMO he will struggle to get a game.

[Chook 14,998]

Just now, nosoupforme said:

J Smith has played 11 games since round 1 in 2017.  What do you see  that l cannot see? I wish him the best for 2020 and hope he can accumulate games consistently and be injury free.

He is well back in the pack and hasn't shown much. IMO he will struggle to get a game.

Agreed. Everyone's wrist-slitting when he got an injury in the preseason this year had me totally befuddled.

[Skuit 9,958]

I didn't think it was the forward-line stupid, until I had a werridee moment and penciled in following hopeful forward line:

Bennell    Jackson     Pickett

Fritsch      Tomald     Petracca

(Yes, Meksham - but he and Trac can share runs through the middle). 

[JakovichScissorKick 771]

On 11/29/2019 at 12:33 PM, Ungarieboy said:

Reality check 

Two 18 year olds, a mid who is still playing as a forward (hasn't made it as a mid yet), and a backman with one good year as a forward; does not make a compelling forward line. 

Like hell it doesn't.

Most talent we have had in the forward half in 15 years.

[Fat Tony 5,082]

15 hours ago, nosoupforme said:

J Smith has played 11 games since round 1 in 2017.  What do you see  that l cannot see? I wish him the best for 2020 and hope he can accumulate games consistently and be injury free.

He is well back in the pack and hasn't shown much. IMO he will struggle to get a game.

Joel Smith has never had a run at it due to injury, but he has shown that he is one of our most athletic players with great speed, endurance and size. I think he can be a player if he has a bit of luck.

[monoccular 17,320]

On 12/4/2019 at 7:54 AM, Deemania since 56 said:

Yes, the early debut is important; a major reason for this - if appropriate to 'risk' an appearance and the circumstances of the opposition on the day - might well be to identify areas for inexperienced players' subsequent training and development at such a level of football. If the talent, as described so far, is there then such exposure may well prove to be a Godsend for a 'learner' and his readiness for duties on a more permanent basis. 

Only if the powers-that-be don’t underestimate the opposition.  Petty debut v Saints springs to mind, which events had longlasting detrimental effects on both the individual player and the team.

On 12/4/2019 at 8:53 AM, Lord Nev said:

 

I thought we were passed the days of expecting kids to carry us and not understanding what development was, I guess it takes a while to sink in with some supporters.

 

Especially those who have been deemented since 1956 ?

Edited December 5, 2019 by monoccular

[Deemania since 56 6,557]

11 hours ago, monoccular said:

Only if the powers-that-be don’t underestimate the opposition.  Petty debut v Saints springs to mind, which events had longlasting detrimental effects on both the individual player and the team.

Especially those who have been deemented since 1956 ?

Statements are good, but the wit is excellent. Onyer, Mono...