14 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

 

I think the key thing Mooney's post above highlights is that the draft is usually more of a lottery than what we have with Lever who at the time of his trade to us was a relatively young player with a career ahead of him, who had already established himself as a realitively elite player for his position.  Looks like a pretty good trade for us to me.

Yep, that is true, and we as Demon supporters know it as much as anyone but my point has always been that we paid to much for Lever hence making it a very ordinary transaction and we are yet to really get any benefit from it. 

14 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

I agree...if that's permitted by @Demon3

 

Permission granted.

On 7/31/2019 at 12:05 PM, Demon3 said:

You think its ridiculous and that's fine, i don't, i think we paid overs for him and have yet to reap any rewards for it. 2 first round picks was to much.

He may well be a future captain, he seems to be a great fella, speaks well, does lots of things right, but he was NOT worth 2 first round picks.

 

I don’t think we could have foreseen the idiocy of Hocking coming in and making excessive rule changes, reducing the loose intercept defender from being one of the key components of any competitive side, to largely ineffective. And even then, once Lever gets some continuity, he will be a solid contributor.

Funnily enough, and other people have alluded to this, we have a big fat wad of capable 23 year olds on our list.

Led by best-22 locks Harmes, Petracca, Brayshaw, Salem and Lever, and followed up by Hore, Smith, Nibbler, Lockhart, Kolodjasnij and O.Mc.

I'm not too anxious about the overall age profile of our list, though it is always good to have kids coming through.

Realistically, we need to MAXimise our next five or so years before our group of important 26-27 year olds fades away, but we aren't looking at any impending rebuild disaster anytime soon.

Having said all that, I would like to see a quality draft crop in 2019, and I'm less and less inclined to trade lavishly to get 'ok-good' players, even when they suit a desirable role.

On 7/31/2019 at 5:54 PM, Lord Travis said:

100% this. Anyone who disagrees is an apologist who accepts mediocrity.

The Lever trade was poor at the time, and has gotten worse with hindsight. Paying two first round picks for an out of contract player was stupid. We had the leverage in that situation, as he was out of contract, and we still buckled and overpaid. It was weak, and consistent with our club being weak for the past 50+ years.

By not drafting anyone in the first round for 4 years now, we’ve effectively unbalanced the list to load up for a premiership tilt. We failed. We now need to hit the draft hard to rebalance and stay competitive. If that means trading established players to get more higher picks, then so be it. We’ve been weak at the trade table for too long. Time to play hardball.

What a ridiculous and unfair thing to say.

You don't like the Lever deal. Fine. I did, and still do, so apparently I accept mediocrity?

I hope he plays incredible football for us, because it will make us a significantly better side and because I will remember this post of yours.

16 hours ago, Mach5 said:

 

I don’t think we could have foreseen the idiocy of Hocking coming in and making excessive rule changes, reducing the loose intercept defender from being one of the key components of any competitive side, to largely ineffective. And even then, once Lever gets some continuity, he will be a solid contributor.

Thats the thing.. he will be a solid contributor, but for 2 first round picks, i want more than solid. Anyway, you are probs sick of it and me so all good, lets hope he turns out to be a gun.

22 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

Thats the thing.. he will be a solid contributor, but for 2 first round picks, i want more than solid. Anyway, you are probs sick of it and me so all good, lets hope he turns out to be a gun.

He was in the top 40 All Australian squad in 2017. He has already shown he is capable of far more than solid.

21 hours ago, Demon3 said:

Thats the thing.. he will be a solid contributor, but for 2 first round picks, i want more than solid. Anyway, you are probs sick of it and me so all good, lets hope he turns out to be a gun.

 

My point is that at the time, what we paid is what he was worth in my opinion. Rule changes have sadly lessened his effectiveness, much like what happened to Jeff White.

On 7/31/2019 at 11:14 AM, DemonLad5 said:

That's a ridiculous statement. We gave up picks 10 and 15 for him, not 2 and 5. Lever is a future captain

I hope not. He needs to learn some "man Management" first. You would have him in front of Max ?????

If Lever's body stands up, (granted, a big "if") then the deal is not too bad, mainly because we got a second rounder back, and that second rounder is Petty, who I think could be a terrific player.  Looks really promising and once his body fills out, we'll have a bonafide swingman who can lock away a key forward but also go into attack and kick goals.

I do share some concerns about not so much our U/23s but our U/21s - no rising star nominations in the last three full seasons is telling.  

On 7/31/2019 at 11:01 AM, McQueen said:

Who the F would name their kid Dinny?

I'm going to assume that you don't know how bad this looks. But I went to school with Dinny and it's pretty obvious from his last name that he doesn't come from an anglo saxon background. You're making fun of someone because of their name is not your traditional anglo name. His name reflects his culture and his background. 

Now it might seem something small to you and the others who liked the post, but on the back of the Adam Goodes documentary I think you should realise there is still a lot of unconscious racism in AFL. It's habits like these that we need to stamp out to make everyone feel welcome. Yes his name is not a common name, there is no need to literally laugh at someone's culture and background just because it's different. I don't want to turn this into a [censored] fight, but I want you to realise what you are doing. 

1 hour ago, Deefiant said:

I'm going to assume that you don't know how bad this looks. But I went to school with Dinny and it's pretty obvious from his last name that he doesn't come from an anglo saxon background. You're making fun of someone because of their name is not your traditional anglo name. His name reflects his culture and his background. 

Now it might seem something small to you and the others who liked the post, but on the back of the Adam Goodes documentary I think you should realise there is still a lot of unconscious racism in AFL. It's habits like these that we need to stamp out to make everyone feel welcome. Yes his name is not a common name, there is no need to literally laugh at someone's culture and background just because it's different. I don't want to turn this into a [censored] fight, but I want you to realise what you are doing. 

I’m sorry that you’re offended by my post but the actual thrust of the joke was based upon my complete and utter disregard for the article in general. 

I’m getting more sick of people in society like your good self who are unable to have a chuckle about something as trivial as this but see it as a platform to launch accusations of racial diatribe because it suits your own warped agenda. 

Good evening. 

12 hours ago, McQueen said:

I’m sorry that you’re offended by my post but the actual thrust of the joke was based upon my complete and utter disregard for the article in general. 

I’m getting more sick of people in society like your good self who are unable to have a chuckle about something as trivial as this but see it as a platform to launch accusations of racial diatribe because it suits your own warped agenda. 

Good evening. 

I have no problems with you not liking the story but attack the story then, don't make subtle attacks on the name. There are multitude of other ways you could've gone about it. Would you be saying the same thing if Tom Morris or Damien Barrett had wrote the story? 

I don't want to make any assumptions here but I think you an "white" male with a normal name. You didn't cop people making fun of your name throughout your life and have no idea what it's like to be racially abused yet i can't call this racism because I can't a small joke. Can I take you back to the Adam Goodes doco? People were justifying the incessant booing of him because he dives, but no other player got booed like that for a whole season. He came out and said he was being racially vilified, yet everyone brushed it off. You're brushing what you did off in a similar way. I don't want to pick on you individually because many other posters liked your comment and I think it's more of a cultural issue than an individual one. But what you are doing is unconscious racism and you should be aware of that. 

As I said before I don't want to turn this into a [censored] fight. So this will be the last I am posting on then issue. 

On 8/2/2019 at 12:08 PM, Demon3 said:

Thats the thing.. he will be a solid contributor, but for 2 first round picks, i want more than solid. Anyway, you are probs sick of it and me so all good, lets hope he turns out to be a gun.

We gave up the picks Adelaide used for Darcy Fogarty and Ned McHenry!  I know you will argue that we would have picked differently and picked super stars but we both know that is living in dreamland. The draft is a lottery and Lever was a know quality. In my opinion he will be better for us than two unknowns.

 

Edit:- If you asked Adelaide if they would swap Darcy Fogarty and Ned McHenry for Lever my guess is they would jump for it.

 

Edited August 6, 20195 yr by ManDee

6 minutes ago, ManDee said:

We gave up the picks Adelaide used for Darcy Fogarty and Ned McHenry!  I know you will argue that we would have picked differently and picked super stars but we both know that is living in dreamland. The draft is a lottery and Lever was a know quality. In my opinion he will be better for us than two unknowns.

 

Edit:- If you asked Adelaide if they would swap Darcy Fogarty and Ned McHenry for Lever my guess is they would jump for it.

 

Yep, i understand all that and as i said as an example Jack Higgins was available for us. Its all speculative isnt it totally get that, my main point is that we paid to much for him. 2 First round picks was way overs, but i have also said, i hope he proves me wrong.

54 minutes ago, Deefiant said:

I have no problems with you not liking the story but attack the story then, don't make subtle attacks on the name. There are multitude of other ways you could've gone about it. Would you be saying the same thing if Tom Morris or Damien Barrett had wrote the story? 

I don't want to make any assumptions here but I think you an "white" male with a normal name. You didn't cop people making fun of your name throughout your life and have no idea what it's like to be racially abused yet i can't call this racism because I can't a small joke. Can I take you back to the Adam Goodes doco? People were justifying the incessant booing of him because he dives, but no other player got booed like that for a whole season. He came out and said he was being racially vilified, yet everyone brushed it off. You're brushing what you did off in a similar way. I don't want to pick on you individually because many other posters liked your comment and I think it's more of a cultural issue than an individual one. But what you are doing is unconscious racism and you should be aware of that. 

As I said before I don't want to turn this into a [censored] fight. So this will be the last I am posting on then issue. 

I made a joke about a persons name and you’ve turned this into a racial debate.

Stop and have a good think about that and whilst you’re at it appreciate the irony you’ve brought with it.