Demons Grand Plan for Yarra Park Training HQ

[Mach5 4,767]

On 6/25/2018 at 10:23 PM, Roost It said:

AAMI to Gosch's park is a short walk, hardly a disadvantage

Then you don’t understand the impact it has on the club.

[old dee 23,792]

16 hours ago, Mach5 said:

Then you don’t understand the impact it has on the club.

Oh so that is why we lost to Port last Friday?

[Roost It 1,434]

17 hours ago, Mach5 said:

Then you don’t understand the impact it has on the club.

There maybe marketing and branding benefits but there’ll be no change to our footballing abilities. I only care about winning a Premiership. If this ground helps that I’m in. I just don’t believe it does. However Im happy to admit that with the over sensitive 20 something’s on our list that short walk just maybe doing them harm Maybe the diesel smog from training to close to Punt Road is affecting them, combine that with a gym that’s shared and wow all sorts of issues arise

[old dee 23,792]

28 minutes ago, Roost It said:

There maybe marketing and branding benefits but there’ll be no change to our footballing abilities. I only care about winning a Premiership. If this ground helps that I’m in. I just don’t believe it does. However Im happy to admit that with the over sensitive 20 something’s on our list that short walk just maybe doing them harm Maybe the diesel smog from training to close to Punt Road is affecting them, combine that with a gym that’s shared and wow all sorts of issues arise

I agree Roost it and that diesel smog does not seem to be worrying the Tigers. Perhaps it is the wire fence that makes all the difference. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,819]

1 hour ago, Roost It said:

There maybe marketing and branding benefits but there’ll be no change to our footballing abilities. I only care about winning a Premiership. If this ground helps that I’m in. I just don’t believe it does.

There are many benefits beyond marketing and branding:

• It is ineffective to have management in two separate locations (MCG and AAMI) which are themselves shared with other sports.  Time wasting and inefficient communications result.
• More time wasting with FD staff to transport training gear to/from AAMI to Gosch's paddock
• Have decent player recovery, meeting room and training facilities to compete with Vic clubs to attract FA's and OOC players. 
• Train on an MCG sized oval.  It is no coincidence clubs have built or are building such training ovals at their facilities. 
• Avoid being totally left behind by AFL clubs - look at Ess, Coll, and the future Hawthorn facilities.  Bulldogs have upgraded Western Oval and have new grounds in Ballarat.  Carlton will get mega $$ for Princes Park,  Geelong has and will do more at Kardinia Park.  StKilda is doing same at Moorabbin and North are now fund raising to upgrade Arden St. 
• We don't even have a patch of dirt to dream of such things.  In fact, even when we have a new facility in X years we still won't have what Vic clubs have now or are now building. 
• Opportunity to consolidate our revenue base for decades into the future.
• Potentially easier access for fans to buy merchandise
• Club rooms to display our fine history and memorabilia.

Some of these will directly affect our footballing abilities.  Others will help the club's identity and standing in the AFL community. 

There is no real benefit to supporters nor should that be a motivator to mfc.  For mine, walking past the Yellow and Black to get to the G will be a little bit more bearable if I know there is a mini Red and Blue version of it on the other side of Yarra Park.

Edited June 28, 2018 by Lucifer's Hero

[old dee 23,792]

44 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

There are many benefits beyond marketing and branding:

• It is ineffective to have management in two separate locations (MCG and AAMI) which are themselves shared with other sports.  Time wasting and inefficient communications result.
• More time wasting with FD staff to transport training gear to/from AAMI to Gosch's paddock
• Have decent player recovery, meeting room and training facilities to compete with Vic clubs to attract FA's and OOC players. 
• Train on an MCG sized oval.  It is no coincidence clubs have built or are building such training ovals at their facilities. 
• Avoid being totally left behind by AFL clubs - look at Ess, Coll, and the future Hawthorn facilities.  Bulldogs have upgraded Western Oval and have new grounds in Ballarat.  Carlton will get mega $$ for Princes Park,  Geelong has and will do more at Kardinia Park.  StKilda is doing same at Moorabbin and North are now fund raising to upgrade Arden St. 
• We don't even have a patch of dirt to dream of such things.  In fact, even when we have a new facility in X years we still won't have what Vic clubs have now or are now building. 
• Opportunity to consolidate our revenue base for decades into the future.
• Potentially easier access for fans to buy merchandise
• Club rooms to display our fine history and memorabilia.

Some of these will directly affect our footballing abilities.  Others will help the club's identity and standing in the AFL community. 

There is no real benefit to supporters nor should that be a motivator to mfc.  For mine, walking past the Yellow and Black to get to the G will be a little bit more bearable if I know there is a mini Red and Blue version of it on the other side of Yarra Park.

Seems like I am following you around today LH.

Re the above while all those comments have merit and hopefully we will resolve them over the next decade.

I have only one concern in the short term Did any of them cause us to lose last Friday evening as I cannot see that they did?

[DeleteUser 638]

7 minutes ago, old dee said:

I have only one concern in the short term Did any of them cause us to lose last Friday evening as I cannot see that they did?

Perhaps not, but who knows.

But perhaps they did for our seeming lack of ability to win at the MCG? (Admittedly against good teams). Perhaps it's lack of training on MCG-like grounds?

Just postulating.

[old dee 23,792]

4 minutes ago, timbo said:

Perhaps not, but who knows.

But perhaps they did for our seeming lack of ability to win at the MCG? (Admittedly against good teams). Perhaps it's lack of training on MCG-like grounds?

Just postulating.

Perhaps it just that we don't yet have the players to win them.

We all look for reasons to blame for a loss when it is more often than not that we don't have the required ability.

[daisycutter 29,616]

11 minutes ago, old dee said:

Seems like I am following you around today LH.

Re the above while all those comments have merit and hopefully we will resolve them over the next decade.

I have only one concern in the short term Did any of them cause us to lose last Friday evening as I cannot see that they did?

why can't we walk and chew gum at the same time, od?

if we want to be an ongoing successful club we have to focus on the short term, the medium term and the long term (simultaneously) and in all aspects of the club

simple really.....

[Lucifers Hero 39,819]

9 minutes ago, old dee said:

Seems like I am following you around today LH.

Re the above while all those comments have merit and hopefully we will resolve them over the next decade.

I have only one concern in the short term Did any of them cause us to lose last Friday evening as I cannot see that they did?

Maybe, maybe not.

I would propose that if we had had the facilities of some other clubs and the attractions of other clubs then there is every chance we would be in a better position on and off the field. 

At some stage we need to give our club a solid future foundation and a facility like Yarra Park/Jolimont rail is the way to go. 

Making it happen isn't distracting anyone from their day job.

[old dee 23,792]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

why can't we walk and chew gum at the same time, od?

if we want to be an ongoing successful club we have to focus on the short term, the medium term and the long term (simultaneously) and in all aspects of the club

simple really.....

dc I said the following " Re the above while all those comments have merit and hopefully we will resolve them over the next decade. " I am not saying we don't need to resolve them I just struggle with  comments suggesting they are the reasons we cannot compete at the top level.

[old dee 23,792]

1 minute ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Maybe, maybe not.

I would propose that if we had had the facilities of some other clubs and the attractions of other clubs then there is every chance we would be in a better position on and off the field. 

At some stage we need to give our club a solid future foundation and a facility like Yarra Park/Jolimont rail is the way to go. 

Making it happen isn't distracting anyone from their day job.

I don't disagree with the need to change LH I just struggle with it being the major reason we cannot beat top sides.

[daisycutter 29,616]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

dc I said the following " Re the above while all those comments have merit and hopefully we will resolve them over the next decade. " I am not saying we don't need to resolve them I just struggle with  comments suggesting they are the reasons we cannot compete at the top level.

the yarra park proposal is not going to help us win a flag in the short term......that i agree

if it goes ahead it would probably take 5 years (?) from now to complete

[Lucifers Hero 39,819]

1 minute ago, old dee said:

I don't disagree with the need to change LH I just struggle with it being the major reason we cannot beat top sides.

I hadn't picked on posts saying the lack of a Home Facility is the major reason we can't beat top sides.  It looks like faulty logic...

...we all know there are lots of reasons we struggle to beat teams around us on the ladder.

[Willmoy1947 4,090]

On 6/21/2018 at 10:05 AM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Out of context I don't know what to make of this. Did he mean:

(1) he's in favour of it but because the ALP is scared of the Greens, and the Greens hold the seats where this is to be situated, the Premier won't support the proposal so it won't happen; or

(2) he's against it.

The most likely scenario, though, is that he hasn't made up his mind because he hasn't had a chance to see what the opinion polls tell him.

 

NB: Forget the Rod Grinter Riot Squad reference. I was going to make a comment on his earlier post but have changed my mind but been unable to delete the original reference.

Guy wants to put a Fish (y) restaurant on the site......

[old dee 23,792]

6 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

the yarra park proposal is not going to help us win a flag in the short term......that i agree

if it goes ahead it would probably take 5 years (?) from now to complete

I wonder if we have a plan "B" as a change of government in a few months time will see the incoming premier scuttle it immediately.

He has already said it is not on.

[daisycutter 29,616]

1 minute ago, old dee said:

I wonder if we have a plan "B" as a change of government in a few months time will see the incoming premier scuttle it immediately.

He has already said it is not on.

he said we had more chance of winning a premiership

win a premiership this year or next and it's a monty then

[old dee 23,792]

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

he said we had more chance of winning a premiership

win a premiership this year or next and it's a monty then

A small chance in 2019 dc but by then he will have scuttled the idea.

Any plan "B"?

[daisycutter 29,616]

17 minutes ago, old dee said:

A small chance in 2019 dc but by then he will have scuttled the idea.

Any plan "B"?

i would take guy's (or any politician) comments definitively at this early stage, od

[—coach— 3,496]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

Seems like I am following you around today LH.

Re the above while all those comments have merit and hopefully we will resolve them over the next decade.

I have only one concern in the short term Did any of them cause us to lose last Friday evening as I cannot see that they did?

If great training facilities don’t help you win games, why are just about every other club investing millions into theirs rather than spending it on something else?

Must just be for the bling factor I guess?

[old dee 23,792]

15 minutes ago, —coach— said:

If great training facilities don’t help you win games, why are just about every other club investing millions into theirs rather than spending it on something else?

Must just be for the bling factor I guess?

I will take that as you think we lost on Friday because we train on Goschs.

[old dee 23,792]

23 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i would take guy's (or any politician) comments definitively at this early stage, od

It's a no loser for Guy dc.

All the concerned about losing park land agree with him and not one Dees supporter will change their vote. 

[hemingway 7,627]

54 minutes ago, —coach— said:

If great training facilities don’t help you win games, why are just about every other club investing millions into theirs rather than spending it on something else?

Must just be for the bling factor I guess?

Having state of the art training facilities is very important..

It may not translate directly into wins on the field but it is another component of building and maintaining a successful club. It shows that the club is ambitious and has a plan to become a successful club. It is about securing your future. 

Most successful organisations outgrow their original or existing facilities.  Outdated facilities eventually have an adverse impact on an organisation.    

Although we  may have good facilities at AAMI, sharing it with a range of other clubs is not ideal. Suggestions are that it has become overcrowded and that we can't get things done without the consent of the other stakeholders. It may be a huge improvement on the Junction Oval, but the AAMI and Gosch's Paddock facility is a poor cousin to Collingwood's Holden Centre and Olympic Oval.

Is it practical or sensible to think that we could continue to use the AAMi facilities for another 10 years? Most likely not. The longer we leave it to create our own facility, the harder it will be in 10-20 years time.  

Having your own facilities,  sends a powerful marketing message. It tells all and sundry that it is a professional club.

It is a competition between clubs for recruits, players, coaches, sponsors etc. Successful people want to be associated with successful organisations.  You need to do everything possible to have the edge on other clubs or at least to be on equal footing. In the 1950s and 60s, players were attracted to play for Melbourne because we trained and played at the MCG.  Sure we won premierships but we also had the best training facilities in the League. 

To get the best out of people you need to have a work environment conducive to high performance. Players and coaches are going to be more motivated and productive if they train and work in the best environment.  Location, access, architecture, space, equipment, technology, work areas for coaches and staff, meeting rooms are all components of creating a productive work place. One in which players and staff enjoy using every day.

If the Club does not plan to develop and grow in all of its activities, it will eventually whither. We cannot afford to stand still and have all the other clubs with a competitive edge.  

  

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by hemingway

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

4 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Having state of the art training facilities is very important..

It may not translate directly into wins on the field but it is another component of building and maintaining a successful club. It shows that the club is ambitious and has a plan to become a successful club. It is about securing your future. 

Most successful organisations outgrow their original or existing facilities.  Outdated facilities eventually have an adverse impact on an organisation.    

Although we  may have good facilities at AAMI, sharing it with a range of other clubs is not ideal. Suggestions are that it has become overcrowded and that we can't get things done without the consent of the other stakeholders. It may be a huge improvement on the Junction Oval, but the AAMI and Gosch's Paddock facility is a poor cousin to Collingwood's Holden Centre and Olympic Oval.

Is it practical or sensible to think that we could continue to use the AAMi facilities for another 10 years? Most likely not. The longer we leave it to create our own facility, the harder it will be in 10-20 years time.  

Having your own facilities,  sends a powerful marketing message. It tells all and sundry that it is a professional club.

It is a competition between clubs for recruits, players, coaches, sponsors etc. Successful people want to be associated with successful organisations.  You need to do everything possible to have the edge on other clubs or at least to be on equal footing. In the 1950s and 60s, players were attracted to play for Melbourne because we trained and played at the MCG.  Sure we won premierships but we also had the best training facilities in the League. 

To get the best out of people you need to have a work environment conducive to high performance. Players and coaches are going to be more motivated and productive if they train and work in the best environment.  Location, access, architecture, space, equipment, technology, work areas for coaches and staff, meeting rooms are all components of creating a productive work place. One in which players and staff enjoy using every day.

If the Club does not plan to develop and grow in all of its activities, it will eventually whither. We cannot afford to stand still and have all the other clubs with a competitive edge.  

  

 

Amen to that. We have been treading water ? (Sometimes very poorly) for 54 years. 

This facility must be built

[old dee 23,792]

8 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Having state of the art training facilities is very important..

It may not translate directly into wins on the field but it is another component of building and maintaining a successful club. It shows that the club is ambitious and has a plan to become a successful club. It is about securing your future. 

Most successful organisations outgrow their original or existing facilities.  Outdated facilities eventually have an adverse impact on an organisation.    

Although we  may have good facilities at AAMI, sharing it with a range of other clubs is not ideal. Suggestions are that it has become overcrowded and that we can't get things done without the consent of the other stakeholders. It may be a huge improvement on the Junction Oval, but the AAMI and Gosch's Paddock facility is a poor cousin to Collingwood's Holden Centre and Olympic Oval.

Is it practical or sensible to think that we could continue to use the AAMi facilities for another 10 years? Most likely not. The longer we leave it to create our own facility, the harder it will be in 10-20 years time.  

Having your own facilities,  sends a powerful marketing message. It tells all and sundry that it is a professional club.

It is a competition between clubs for recruits, players, coaches, sponsors etc. Successful people want to be associated with successful organisations.  You need to do everything possible to have the edge on other clubs or at least to be on equal footing. In the 1950s and 60s, players were attracted to play for Melbourne because we trained and played at the MCG.  Sure we won premierships but we also had the best training facilities in the League. 

To get the best out of people you need to have a work environment conducive to high performance. Players and coaches are going to be more motivated and productive if they train and work in the best environment.  Location, access, architecture, space, equipment, technology, work areas for coaches and staff, meeting rooms are all components of creating a productive work place. One in which players and staff enjoy using every day.

If the Club does not plan to develop and grow in all of its activities, it will eventually whither. We cannot afford to stand still and have all the other clubs with a competitive edge.  

  

 

I don't disagree with any of that Ernest it just annoys me that people see it as the reason for our lack of success in 2018 when the real reason is we are probably just not good enough yet. 

I just hope we have a plan B as this one looks like it has some large difficulties not the least of which is the political problems.