Winning the Trade & Free Agency Period?

[Whispering_Jack 30,244]

There was a lot of hype last year about who were the winners out of last year’s Trade & Free Agency Period with many of the experts hailing Port Adelaide as the big winners because they snared Steven Motlop, Tom Rockliff and Jack Watts while giving up pick 31, Jarman Impey and Jackson Trengove.

Later on they also picked up a few more recycled players along the way and the pundits were quite bullish about them all the way into the 2018 season but they finally went bust ⅔s of the way through.

None of their big 3 recruits performed as expected and Port’s season ended in disappointment.

It raises the question as to what is really required of a club to come out of the Trade & Free Agency Period as a winner?

[old55 23,625]

The perspective of time.

[Jibroni 5,004]

Its a lot of things but In a nutshell to give up something you have/ can do without for a need.

Its impossible to judge a trade period until 2/3 years after the event. I recall Bombers fans knocking us for spending overs on Melksham for which we gave Pick 29. They ended up drafting Alex Morgan who has played all of 2 games, basically a dud. That's just one example.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Jibroni

[buck_nekkid 5,880]

I think it would be a substantial improvement in the list compared to this season.  With the outs (before rumour) of King,Vince, Flippa, Pedo, Bugg, Balic improvement is highly likely.  If you add Kent and VDB, then it gets harder.  If Hogan is on the move, then it becomes more challenging still.

The ‘core’ of the team that played finals and did well is there.  If we dont cover our weaknesses (Second ruck, outside run) and bolster key stocks (Midfield, goal sneak) it wont be a ‘win’ for mine.  We were an injury to Max away from trouble, struggled to cover Lever and really had no answer to an underperforming Garlett.  Cover these, improve the quality and let the media decide that others ‘won’ the off season.  If we get better for immediate onfield effect (not drafting kids) then we have won as far as I am concerned.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

On 9/28/2018 at 4:46 PM, Whispering_Jack said:

There was a lot of hype last year about who were the winners out of last year’s Trade & Free Agency Period with many of the experts hailing Port Adelaide as the big winners because they snared Steven Motlop, Tom Rockliff and Jack Watts while giving up pick 31, Jarman Impey and Jackson Trengove.

Later on they also picked up a few more recycled players along the way and the pundits were quite bullish about them all the way into the 2018 season but they finally went bust ⅔s of the way through.

None of their big 3 recruits performed as expected and Port’s season ended in disappointment.

It raises the question as to what is really required of a club to come out of the Trade & Free Agency Period as a winner?

You “win” the trade period if you emerge from it having corrected weaknesses and strengthened your likely starting 22 for the following season.  Even if it’s just by a 5% margin. That’s all some clubs can realistically achieve if they go into the post-season without a whole lot of cachè to offer in terms of trade. Other clubs will have more to offer with perhaps greater scope to improve their list. Say a 10 - 15% improvement on the balance of it.

When we saw Port leave the 2017 trade table with Watts, Rockliff and Motlop it looked flashy on paper but for mine did not improve the overall quality of their best 22 at all. They did not need another inside grunt midfielder (Rockliff), Motlop was okay I guess but remained true to his hot and cold style of football, and Watts added absolutely nothing of value to their team. Pick 32 for him ended up being a steal on our part. 

Port failed because they went for a few big flashy names they thought would automatically haul them into the top four. Bad strategy. Essendon on the other hand carefully went after three players (Smith, Saad and Stringer) who they clearly felt would strengthen areas of their team they assessed were weaknesses the previous season. They started off shakily the Bombers but I think that approach began to bear fruit for them in the second half of the season. I reckon they will go past Port as a genuine top eight challenger next season. Port and Kenny H. are in trouble I reckon.

For Melbourne to have a “win” during trade week we need to do similar and methodically set about addressing key needs, in order of priority, that will serve to strengthen the 22 we put out in the park each week. 

1. An upgrade at full back 

2. Outside midfield silk

3. Genuine ruck insurance for Gawn

Tick off at least two of those boxes, rather than just throw our hat into the ring for whichever flashy player wants to join a club entering a premiership window, and we will undoubtedly emerge from trade week in the “W” column.

A Hogan departure should mean we can tick off all three and enter 2019 brimming with confidence.

[faultydet 7,614]

Winning the trade period is not so important now, as winning the flag.

I'm happy to load up by whatever means possible at whatever cost the footy department decide, if it means holding up the cup.

 

Surprised by Rockliff though. Was sure he would be a great pickup for the Power.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

54 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

Its a lot of things but In a nutshell to give up something you have/ can do without for a need.

Its impossible to judge a trade period until 2/3 years after the event. I recall Bombers fans knocking us for spending overs on Melksham for which we gave Pick 29. They ended up drafting Alex Morgan who has played all of 2 games, basically a dud. That's just one example.

 

 

Morgan was a speculative pick at the time. It was a pick that surprised nearly everyone. He was touted to go late in the draft. We certainly wouldn't have selected him. We would've been as much chance to select Sam Menegola or Tom Phillips. Who really knows who we would have taken. Looking back in hindsight is pointless. But I will acknowledge the likelihood of us drafting a player who is having as much imput as Melksham has had - is very unlikely. We pulled the right reign. 

[rjay 24,996]

1 hour ago, Whispering_Jack said:

None of their big 3 recruits performed as expected

I expected them to not make the 8 so their 3 big recruits performed exactly as I expected them to.

For a front running team to add 2 more front runners plus another problem child to their list seemed a dumb strategy from the outset.

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, Whispering_Jack said:

There was a lot of hype last year about who were the winners out of last year’s Trade & Free Agency Period with many of the experts hailing Port Adelaide as the big winners because they snared Steven Motlop, Tom Rockliff and Jack Watts while giving up pick 31, Jarman Impey and Jackson Trengove.

Later on they also picked up a few more recycled players along the way and the pundits were quite bullish about them all the way into the 2018 season but they finally went bust ⅔s of the way through.

None of their big 3 recruits performed as expected and Port’s season ended in disappointment.

It raises the question as to what is really required of a club to come out of the Trade & Free Agency Period as a winner?

Essendon were “graded” to be not far behind Port.... hahhahahahhahahhaHahhaha Hahha Hahha

[Cards13 9,117]

14 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Morgan was a speculative pick at the time. It was a pick that surprised nearly everyone. He was touted to go late in the draft. We certainly wouldn't have selected him. We would've been as much chance to select Sam Menegola or Tom Phillips. Who really knows who we would have taken. Looking back in hindsight is pointless. But I will acknowledge the likelihood of us drafting a player who is having as much imput as Melksham has had - is very unlikely. We pulled the right reign. 

Good kid by the by and didn’t enjoy the EFC in many ways. Very happy at North and hoping to improve on last year and get a good run in the 1s.

[Salems Lot 2,535]

19 hours ago, EnterTheDragon said:

 

You “win” the trade period if you emerge from it having corrected weaknesses and strengthened your likely starting 22 for the following season.  Even if it’s just by a 5% margin. That’s all some clubs can realistically achieve if they go into the post-season without a whole lot of cachè to offer in terms of trade. Other clubs will have more to offer with perhaps greater scope to improve their list. Say a 10 - 15% improvement on the balance of it.

When we saw Port leave the 2017 trade table with Watts, Rockliff and Motlop it looked flashy on paper but for mine did not improve the overall quality of their best 22 at all. They did not need another inside grunt midfielder (Rockliff), Motlop was okay I guess but remained true to his hot and cold style of football, and Watts added absolutely nothing of value to their team. Pick 32 for him ended up being a steal on our part. 

Port failed because they went for a few big flashy names they thought would automatically haul them into the top four. Bad strategy. Essendon on the other hand carefully went after three players (Smith, Saad and Stringer) who they clearly felt would strengthen areas of their team they assessed were weaknesses the previous season. They started off shakily the Bombers but I think that approach began to bear fruit for them in the second half of the season. I reckon they will go past Port as a genuine top eight challenger next season. Port and Kenny H. are in trouble I reckon.

For Melbourne to have a “win” during trade week we need to do similar and methodically set about addressing key needs, in order of priority, that will serve to strengthen the 22 we put out in the park each week. 

1. An upgrade at full back 

2. Outside midfield silk

3. Genuine ruck insurance for Gawn

Tick off at least two of those boxes, rather than just throw our hat into the ring for whichever flashy player wants to join a club entering a premiership window, and we will undoubtedly emerge from trade week in the “W” column.

A Hogan departure should mean we can tick off all three and enter 2019 brimming with confidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My suspicion (based on no real evidence) is that your wish may be granted

May,

Preuss

Kolajdazny (going to have to learn how to spell his name) as ins looks highly likely now.

A loss of Jessie

But possibly a gain in a young gun too.

Could be a lot worse.

[Whispering_Jack 30,244]

On 9/28/2018 at 5:11 PM, Fifty-5 said:

The perspective of time.

I read an interesting tweet this morning  from Basil Zempilas as follows -

"I reckon that settles it. West Coast won the trade deal with Carlton. Josh Kennedy helped WC win a flag. Judd won a Brownlow with the Blues. This is no knock on Judd, but no Kennedy, prob no WC flag today. Took a long time, but I declare WC the winners."

[Whispering_Jack 30,244]

Of course, Carlton achieved the first stage of what they were aiming for in the deal. It lifted them off the cellar and they achieved a few finals appearances and the additional attention of a Brownlow Medal win and that these things bring with them, but look where they are now?

Incidentally, I looked up the full details of the trade and it brought WCE more than just Kennedy. It gave them a second premiership player in Chris Masten who has been handy for them over the years and did his bit yesterday  -

THE JUDD TRADE [From The Age]

* Carlton gave up Josh Kennedy and draft picks No.3 (Chris Masten) and No.20 (Tony Notte)
* West Coast traded Judd and pick No.46 (Dennis Armfield)

Judd at Carlton:

* Brownlow Medallist 2010
* AFL Players Association MVP 2011
* 4 x All-Australian (2008-11)
* 3 x Carlton club champion (2008-10)
* Retired 2015

Kennedy at West Coast:

* 2 x Coleman Medallist (2015-16)
* 3 x All-Australian (2015-17)
* 6 x West Coast leading goalkicker (2011, 2013-17)
* West Coast's all-time leading goalkicker (559 from 220 games)

[old55 23,625]

9 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I read an interesting tweet this morning  from Basil Zempilas as follows -

"I reckon that settles it. West Coast won the trade deal with Carlton. Josh Kennedy helped WC win a flag. Judd won a Brownlow with the Blues. This is no knock on Judd, but no Kennedy, prob no WC flag today. Took a long time, but I declare WC the winners."

Yes good observation. And Chris Masten a premiership player too from the deal.  Tony Notte - less impact

[Adam The God 30,289]

Basil isn't exactly impartial though. Very Western Australian. I reckon West Coast did well out of it, but so did Carlton. They got the best player in the competition at the time. It's a win win.

[rjay 24,996]

14 minutes ago, A F said:

Basil isn't exactly impartial though. Very Western Australian. I reckon West Coast did well out of it, but so did Carlton. They got the best player in the competition at the time. It's a win win.

Sorry 'A F', not with you on this one. It was a typical Carlton thing to do, looking for the next messiah (one we used to fall for).

Carlton patched up some holes, WC go on to win a flag.

I know which shoes I'd rather be in.

All spoils go to the victor...where are Carlton now?

[Adam The God 30,289]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

Sorry 'A F', not with you on this one. It was a typical Carlton thing to do, looking for the next messiah (one we used to fall for).

Carlton patched up some holes, WC go on to win a flag.

I know which shoes I'd rather be in.

All spoils go to the victor...where are Carlton now?

Carlton are nowhere now, but this conversation isn't happening if Collingwood don't choke yesterday. How old is Kennedy now? At least 30. Where were all their other premierships? He did nothing against Hawthorn a few years back.

I reckon it's clear they both got something out of it. Was Basil thinking this with 2 minutes to go yesterday or did he feel it two minutes later? I reckon it's a cheap and simplistic call to make, but then Basil is a pretty ordinary commentator.

[Spirit of the Demon 255]

You need a lot more to deliver a premiership than one trade, even if one of the players traded is as highly decorated as Judd. Carlton’s strategies throughout the period after they recruited him were not good enough to deliver a flag. The Eagles finally got it right yesterday but I would argue that they got more over the years from their players than Carlton did with Judd. Irrespective of the outcome yesterday, Kennedy & Masten we’re part of 2 grand final teams and have been regular finalists. Carlton fell in and out of the finals quickly on two occasions and one year only made the finals courtesy of the doping going on at Essendon. Basil’s right this time. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by Spirit of the Demon