Post Match Discussion - Preliminary Final

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

I'm amazed supporters actually think Saturday's game won't be fully reviewed and that no preparation was put in for a battle.

What happened on Saturday was the result of several factors 

4 games of high intensity football 

A game style which is taxing 

An emotional wave and high we and the playing group had been on for 5 weeks

A need to play our trump cards in round 22 due to bad losses earlier in the season 

A warm day in Perth

I believed earlier in the week we were close to hitting a wall physically and emotionally and felt we would fall away after halftime. I also felt for us to have any chance of a win we would need to start well and be 5 or 6 up at halftime.

Both sides were nervous at the start turning the ball over but once they got the first goal they settled and sat back inviting us to come through the corridor but with no line breaking runner's take the game we were forced to kick short and they zoned off on players in the middle waiting to pounce on any errant kick, fumble or handball. They got what they wished for and kicked 4 goals from our mistakes not from anything they did. We panicked confidence dropped and we felt the pressure real and perceived.

At stoppages they started their mids 15/20m from the ball not allowing us to push them under the ball like last time and also negaing big Maxy from hitting the ball into space for our boys on the outside 

The coaches made changes putting Tmac behind the ball even opening up our forward 50 to try and free up areas to kick long with IMO trying to force some forward stoppages and hopefully scoreboard pressure in an attempt to stem momentum but still we turned it over. In the first 10 mins we hade some decent half chances inside 50 but we didn't take any of them. Their crowd got into the game which didn't happen in round 22 with our start.

We will learn from this as we did from the Swans and Cat losses

How the hell did the Cats throw away a 4 goal lead with 7mins left in the 05 SF. They panicked but they learnt from it

[DeeZee 7,395]

Big ask going to Perth twice in five weeks and playing on a concrete hard deck at 1pm on a 26 degree day against the team that finished second with a two week rest.

Slipping and sliding all over the place and handballing like Tony Jones didn’t help either.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

15 minutes ago, Danelska said:

Because it is not the reality of elite sport...that's why not. Because MFC don't operate in a vacuum, other teams improve for a variety of reasons, from technical, to tactical, to age, to experience, to what staff the bring on, to what players they bring, to the vagaries of umpiring, to how many times to effing play at kardinia park... etc etc

Top 4 is a pass mark. But i'd like to distinguish between expectations vs hope. 

For all the reasons listed before, I'd hope we'd get top 4 - and I'd expect we comfortably make the 8, considering learning for the year and the demographic of our club. 

If we don't - it's not because 'we haven't learned', or thoroughly gone through things forensically', I see that as too simplistic.

I disagree. Certain sides in the AFL expect to make top 4. They train and plan for that goal. If they don’t get there one year they usually do the next. 

We the MFC haven’t had that mindset for a long time. It’s time we did. I enjoyed seeing 90,000 watching the Red and Blue at the ‘G. We must aim for those moments. 

Preparation is very important. 

I worked for years in “Live” TV. There was no room for mistakes. I just had to get it right. Maybe that’s why i think the way i do..

[monoccular 17,428]

On 9/22/2018 at 6:37 PM, McQueen said:

Brayshaw listed as our best player? 

WTF?

I thought he had a fuggin mare. 

And who didn't?

On 9/22/2018 at 6:41 PM, McQueen said:

Eagles supporters on the train dissing us so badly. 

Are you on the Indian Pacific?    Surely no Eagles fans live in suburban Melbourne !! 

On 9/22/2018 at 6:42 PM, Dockett 32 said:

I like that Goodwin wasn’t banging things and throwing water bottles.

He was dirty but calm.

He got a reality check on the capability of our list under real physical pressure. Good for him to find that out now rather than next year.

I doubt if he’ll review the younger ones too much ,but some of the experienced campaigners  who we expect to show up every week ,have might/should get a tap on the shoulder, if we are to make the next step.

 

 

Good points .... can't blame the youngsters NB  Spargo, Weideman, Hannan -- leadership under pressure was absent, and Lewis' early behaviour was anything but leadership.  Should be ashamed of himself.

On 9/22/2018 at 6:43 PM, Lucifer's Hero said:

Good question.

A WA poster said during the week that WCE had asked for the oval to be watered.  They expected it to be slippery.  It seems we didn't get the info.

Like you would love to know what boots they had.  They never fell over while we were slip, sliding away.

IF that is true surely it is tantamount to match fixing.  Will the AFL investigate?  NO.

Still. our guys had a prematch on the same ground as the Weagles, so someone should have picked up that it was slippery.

On 9/22/2018 at 6:55 PM, MurDoc516 said:

Not even angry because i was proud to be in a prelim. Let's learn from it and push forwards.

Certainly IF it is used as a learning experience we will emerge all the stronger from it:  let's not wallow in self pity.  It was a shocking game but it is now in the past so time to move on.

[monoccular 17,428]

50 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I'm amazed supporters actually think Saturday's game won't be fully reviewed and that no preparation was put in for a battle.

What happened on Saturday was the result of several factors 

4 games of high intensity football 

A game style which is taxing 

An emotional wave and high we and the playing group had been on for 5 weeks

A need to play our trump cards in round 22 due to bad losses earlier in the season 

A warm day in Perth

I believed earlier in the week we were close to hitting a wall physically and emotionally and felt we would fall away after halftime. I also felt for us to have any chance of a win we would need to start well and be 5 or 6 up at halftime.

Both sides were nervous at the start turning the ball over but once they got the first goal they settled and sat back inviting us to come through the corridor but with no line breaking runner's take the game we were forced to kick short and they zoned off on players in the middle waiting to pounce on any errant kick, fumble or handball. They got what they wished for and kicked 4 goals from our mistakes not from anything they did. We panicked confidence dropped and we felt the pressure real and perceived.

At stoppages they started their mids 15/20m from the ball not allowing us to push them under the ball like last time and also negaing big Maxy from hitting the ball into space for our boys on the outside 

The coaches made changes putting Tmac behind the ball even opening up our forward 50 to try and free up areas to kick long with IMO trying to force some forward stoppages and hopefully scoreboard pressure in an attempt to stem momentum but still we turned it over. In the first 10 mins we hade some decent half chances inside 50 but we didn't take any of them. Their crowd got into the game which didn't happen in round 22 with our start.

We will learn from this as we did from the Swans and Cat losses

How the hell did the Cats throw away a 4 goal lead with 7mins left in the 05 SF. They panicked but they learnt from it

Pennant -  a well considered summation of how the day unfolded, especially re hitting the wall physically and emotionally (probably more so emotionally than physically IMVHO).  It was a great ride into the finals, and the first two weeks.

Thanks to all involved.

Forward and upwards for 2019.

Edited September 24, 2018 by monoccular

[Watson11 2,240]

55 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I disagree. Certain sides in the AFL expect to make top 4. They train and plan for that goal. If they don’t get there one year they usually do the next. 

We the MFC haven’t had that mindset for a long time. It’s time we did. I enjoyed seeing 90,000 watching the Red and Blue at the ‘G. We must aim for those moments. 

Preparation is very important. 

I worked for years in “Live” TV. There was no room for mistakes. I just had to get it right. Maybe that’s why i think the way i do..

MFC is now a different group.  Different board, management, coaches, players.  They understand the history but don't have to be weighed down by it.

I'm old enough to have seen dozens of mistakes on live TV by the way....

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

10 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

MFC is now a different group.  Different board, management, coaches, players.  They understand the history but don't have to be weighed down by it.

I'm old enough to have seen dozens of mistakes on live TV by the way....

Sure mistakes are made, but you got around them so the audience didn’t notice the problem. 

I am just suprised at what Max said on Sunday, that they weren’t prepared for what the Eagles bought. 

Prelims are do or die, they always have been  it’s not a suprise  

we died within 2 minutes

Edited September 24, 2018 by Sir Why You Little

[Watson11 2,240]

18 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Sure mistakes are made, but you got around them so the audience didn’t notice the problem. 

I am just suprised at what Max said on Sunday, that they weren’t prepared for what the Eagles bought. 

Prelims are do or die, they always have been  it’s not a suprise  

we died within 2 minutes

Yep and it's inexplicable and the club needs to understand and review what happened during preparation etc I totally agree.  I really think there is nothing Max could say but overall the article expressed how bitterly disappointed he was.  But if I looked at the 8 this year, I though only Collingwood and Geelong were capable of smashing us in contested possession.  I think that is what Max was expressing.  He was expecting Melbourne to do that to West Coast, and after 10 minutes we lost all composure.

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

23 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

Yep and it's inexplicable and the club needs to understand and review what happened during preparation etc I totally agree.  I really think there is nothing Max could say but overall the article expressed how bitterly disappointed he was.  But if I looked at the 8 this year, I though only Collingwood and Geelong were capable of smashing us in contested possession.  I think that is what Max was expressing.  He was expecting Melbourne to do that to West Coast, and after 10 minutes we lost all composure.

 

Quite possibly we got it wrong, yes. I admire his honesty in saying it. 

Incredible that the dominance lasted so long...that will be a major concern to Goodwin over summer....

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I disagree. Certain sides in the AFL expect to make top 4. They train and plan for that goal. If they don’t get there one year they usually do the next. 

We the MFC haven’t had that mindset for a long time. It’s time we did. I enjoyed seeing 90,000 watching the Red and Blue at the ‘G. We must aim for those moments. 

Preparation is very important. 

I worked for years in “Live” TV. There was no room for mistakes. I just had to get it right. Maybe that’s why i think the way i do..

Crows Giants Swans Port Geelong and Essendon all trained prepared and expected to make top 4 and they all failed. 

We missed finals last season and set the goal of making finals and from there consider trying to make top 4. Well we finished 5th and but for some moments against the Cats where we blew chances we could have actually finished top 3 in the home and away.

At seasons end we finished top 4 and at some stage you will realise this is a new Melbourne. All the experts and list builders who talk about the need to get 100games into players aren't plucking numbers from the sky or without experience it is genuinely what it takes players to get used to playing at this level and expose them to a variety of scenarios the AFL throws at you.

You can't actually prepare for what is thrown at you in a Preliminary final at Optus. You can plan and prepare for what to expect but real exposure to it helps you prepare for the next opportunity. IMO that is what Gawny was referring to.

 

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

5 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Crows Giants Swans Port Geelong and Essendon all trained prepared and expected to make top 4 and they all failed. 

We missed finals last season and set the goal of making finals and from there consider trying to make top 4. Well we finished 5th and but for some moments against the Cats where we blew chances we could have actually finished top 3 in the home and away.

At seasons end we finished top 4 and at some stage you will realise this is a new Melbourne. All the experts and list builders who talk about the need to get 100games into players aren't plucking numbers from the sky or without experience it is genuinely what it takes players to get used to playing at this level and expose them to a variety of scenarios the AFL throws at you.

You can't actually prepare for what is thrown at you in a Preliminary final at Optus. You can plan and prepare for what to expect but real exposure to it helps you prepare for the next opportunity. IMO that is what Gawny was referring to.

 

 

Maybe. The club will be either seething angry at what happened or shell shocked. 

We won’t know the true answer till next season...

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Maybe. The club will be either seething angry at what happened or shell shocked. 

We won’t know the true answer till next season...

I know you've waited longer than I have Wyl but even next year we will still be learning a lot. Next season they are expected to finish top 4 and we will see what happens after that but for me 2020 onwards is when this list should really be in a 4 to 5 year expectation of genuine top 2 -3 contenders 

[Diamond_Jim 12,588]

Just now, Pennant St Dee said:

I know you've waited longer than I have Wyl but even next year we will still be learning a lot. Next season they are expected to finish top 4 and we will see what happens after that but for me 2020 onwards is when this list should really be in a 4 to 5 year expectation of genuine top 2 -3 contenders 

Essendon 2000

it just doesn't happen like that

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

Just now, Pennant St Dee said:

I know you've waited longer than I have Wyl but even next year we will still be learning a lot. Next season they are expected to finish top 4 and we will see what happens after that but for me 2020 onwards is when this list should really be in a 4 to 5 year expectation of genuine top 2 -3 contenders 

I hope you are right. We will be hunted next year, no doubt. That’s why this year was so important, we almost got a free hit. But Perth was too much. 

The fact that Meth Coke kept it up for an hour was scary...

[Watson11 2,240]

29 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Quite possibly we got it wrong, yes. I admire his honesty in saying it. 

Incredible that the dominance lasted so long...that will be a major concern to Goodwin over summer....

Hopefully drive them to beat the WC 2006 contested possession differential record next year. 

 

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

16 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Essendon 2000

it just doesn't happen like that

Lets not forget the Bomers lost a Prelim in 96 rejigged a bit in 97 bringing in some younger players to add to the baby Bombers of 93 and replaced the older  boys who left. They finished 98 strongly and were top 2 contenders for the next 3 seasons 

[dieter 3,325]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I disagree. Certain sides in the AFL expect to make top 4. They train and plan for that goal. If they don’t get there one year they usually do the next. 

We the MFC haven’t had that mindset for a long time. It’s time we did. I enjoyed seeing 90,000 watching the Red and Blue at the ‘G. We must aim for those moments. 

Preparation is very important. 

I worked for years in “Live” TV. There was no room for mistakes. I just had to get it right. Maybe that’s why i think the way i do..

Live TV is not a game of footy. TV has rules, protocols and procedures which are constant. AFL, with its ovular ball...etc etc. I really don't like where you're coming from. It's not a case of clockwork or trains running on time, wow, let's compare avocados with cricket balls...

[Jaded No More 68,915]

5 hours ago, Deevout said:

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2018-09-24/mcgovern-lewis-offered-fines-for-misconduct

McGovern fined for the Viney throat punch but no reversal of free kick by the umpire on the day . Sucks.

I present umpire Nicholls. Turd of the highest order and a cheat to boot. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

18 minutes ago, dieter said:

Live TV is not a game of footy. TV has rules, protocols and procedures which are constant. AFL, with its ovular ball...etc etc. I really don't like where you're coming from. It's not a case of clockwork or trains running on time, wow, let's compare avocados with cricket balls...

Haha ? you have obviously not spent a lot of time in a TV studio once the Red light is on. It’s anything but constant, i assure you. 

That’s why it’s live. 

 

[dieter 3,325]

38 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Haha ? you have obviously not spent a lot of time in a TV studio once the Red light is on. It’s anything but constant, i assure you. 

That’s why it’s live. 

 

There's still an amount of technical control. Sport is a totally different concept. I'm not trying to denigrate your input, I just think it's not an appropriate analogy. 

[Pates 9,660]

1 hour ago, Jaded said:

I present umpire Nicholls. Turd of the highest order and a cheat to boot. 

He was afraid to overturn the decision, simple as that. That was a reversal every day of the week but he was too scared to make the tough decision in front of the pro West Coast crowd. Weak as pi55.

[Sir Why You Little 37,036]

4 minutes ago, dieter said:

There's still an amount of technical control. Sport is a totally different concept. I'm not trying to denigrate your input, I just think it's not an appropriate analogy. 

The analogy i make is there is very little room for mistakes in live TV. So preparation is paramount. I have seen people dismissed mid show for bad mistakes  now i am not saying we sack players mid game, but i have never seen a whole team completely capitulate from the opening bounce to halftime in a Prelim Final like that before, both old and young completely shot  

it is a worry going into next year, every club will watch that game closely to study what we did and didn’t do to look for any edge  

Last Saturday the MFC was not prepared at all for what took place, and that lasted for 60 minutes including a break where things were discussed by the coaches. It made no difference. 

Just extraordinary...

I doubt Goodwin will get much of a holiday as Senior Coach, he had a solid year all up, but the last act was a train wreck

[dieter 3,325]

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The analogy i make is there is very little room for mistakes in live TV. So preparation is paramount. I have seen people dismissed mid show for bad mistakes  now i am not saying we sack players mid game, but i have never seen a whole team completely capitulate from the opening bounce to halftime in a Prelim Final like that before, both old and young completely shot  

it is a worry going into next year, every club will watch that game closely to study what we did and didn’t do to look for any edge  

Last Saturday the MFC was not prepared at all for what took place, and that lasted for 60 minutes including a break where things were discussed by the coaches. It made no difference. 

Just extraordinary...

I doubt Goodwin will get much of a holiday as Senior Coach, he had a solid year all up, but the last act was a train wreck

Richmond were just as bad in the first half.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

13 hours ago, Jaded said:

I present umpire Nicholls. Turd of the highest order and a cheat to boot. 

Of course it's always possible that he's just incompetent, to such a breathtaking degree that it seems like cheating

 

12 hours ago, Pates said:

He was afraid to overturn the decision, simple as that. That was a reversal every day of the week but he was too scared to make the tough decision in front of the pro West Coast crowd. Weak as pi55.

Give the guy a break. Maybe he just doesn't know the rules. Have you considered that? There are a lot of them. It's a fair ask to expect a bloke to remember every single one. Let him come along at his own pace and in 2 or 3 seasons he may know them all. Then he can work on assessing which incidents in play infringe the rules, and which ones don't. Patience my friend!

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

One thing about live TV is that while you're pushing a fader, there's not some other bloke trying to push it the other way at the same time.

(On the other hand, you might get Kerry Packer on the phone telling you to "get that sh*t off the air!")