The Need for Outside Midfielders

[SPC 3,568]

40 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Has anyone seen much of Jack Martin this year and is he gettable or worthy?

Haven’t seen a heap of him, what I’ve seen his form does fluctuate and he tends to play more forward these days, but has plenty of talent 

[KingDingAling 3,758]

1 minute ago, Watts the matter said:

This post is just odd.

Gaff is vanilla? 

Tim Kelly is blistering on the outside?

Next you will be telling us that Brayshaw is an elite kick. 

Gaff is vanilla, he doesn't do anything particularly outstanding. He is mostly an outside mid, but is relatively slow. I don't see Gaff as an effective midfielder. What does Gaff do exactly that is well above average? Does he have any outstanding traits? I don't see any. Perhaps I am overlooking something..

Tim Kelly is blistering on the outside. The first few steps Kelly takes he just leaves opponents in their wake - that is exactly the type of player we need. Kelly is underrated but I won't harp on him too much because he isn't a target for us (but I referred to him because he is the type of player we need, we need that speed as we struggle on the spread).

Brayshaw isn't a very good kick at present. Above average on his opposite foot but well below average on his preferred foot. Hopefully something that he can fix. He hasn't played a lot of footy but I won't sit here and defend his kicking - it isn't where it should be right now.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

42 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Has anyone seen much of Jack Martin this year and is he gettable or worthy?

I don't know about gettable, but worthy yes. Martin is exactly he type of player I would be targeting. I would pay him and pay him overs, because it would take paying him overs (at the trade table and salary) to get him here. He is about to explode. In 2019 he will be an elite player. Paying overs this year will be unders at trade time next year. I think people would see a potential Martin trade as mostly trading for potential (in that he is potentially a great player but not there yet), but I have been watching Martin all year and he isn't far off elite right now. Massive on this kid.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 minute ago, KingDingAling said:

Gaff is vanilla, he doesn't do anything particularly outstanding. He is mostly an outside mid, but is relatively slow. I don't see Gaff as an effective midfielder. What does Gaff do exactly that is well above average? Does he have any outstanding traits? I don't see any. Perhaps I am overlooking something..

Tim Kelly is blistering on the outside. The first few steps Kelly takes he just leaves opponents in their wake - that is exactly the type of player we need. Kelly is underrated but I won't harp on him too much because he isn't a target for us (but I referred to him because he is the type of player we need, we need that speed as we struggle on the spread).

Brayshaw isn't a very good kick at present. Above average on his opposite foot but well below average on his preferred foot. Hopefully something that he can fix. He hasn't played a lot of footy but I won't sit here and defend his kicking - it isn't where it should be right now.

Just gets the ball the 4th most in the comp, has elite fitness and above average kicking. He also actually kicks the ball which most of our midfielders are unable to do. He is a lot quicker than you are giving him credit for.

Disagree on Tim Kelly, solid player but I think he does his best work inside and I wouldn't call him an outside player.

Brayshaw has always been a poor kick, a handful of the posters on this site have been able to see this since his first few games. You can dodge around this issue with this foot, that foot. Essentially he is poor kick and it's always going to hold him back at AFL.

 

[TGR 1,367]

47 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

This post is just odd.

Gaff is vanilla? 

Tim Kelly is blistering on the outside?

Next you will be telling us that Brayshaw is an elite kick. 

Thank god there is another who thinks Gaff and to a greater extent Shuey, are the most overrated front-running players in the comp.

[TGR 1,367]

If the club was hell-bent on paying superannuation 18 months ago, invest in a Boomer Harvey, who would have taken a 2 year deal, instead of treacle Lewis on a 3 year deal.  Would have added to us, and might have been the difference in 2017 and 2018.

[SFebes 4,884]

8 minutes ago, TGR said:

If the club was hell-bent on paying superannuation 18 months ago, invest in a Boomer Harvey, who would have taken a 2 year deal, instead of treacle Lewis on a 3 year deal.  Would have added to us, and might have been the difference in 2017 and 2018.

Who would you choose if not Gaff?

[TGR 1,367]

2 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Who would you choose if not Gaff?

Gaff is vanilla squared.  He and Shuey are front-runners.

Surprised we didn't go for Saad last year.

We have paid 800k for Lever.  That makes TMac worth 900k in my book, which would be a bargain.  Do we have the luxury to keep purchasing, or do we try to keep our talent that will get offers in the next few years.

Lets go for outside speed in the super-draft.  Hang on, we have hand-delivered Adelaide our picks in the super-draft.

 

Sometimes, when you pee in the bed, you have to lay in it.

[TGR 1,367]

2 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Who would you choose if not Gaff?

Gaff is vanilla squared.  He and Shuey are front-runners.

Surprised we didn't go for Saad last year.

We have paid 800k for Lever.  That makes TMac worth 900k in my book, which would be a bargain.  Do we have the luxury to keep purchasing, or do we try to keep our talent that will get offers in the next few years.

Lets go for outside speed in the super-draft.  Hang on, we have hand-delivered Adelaide our picks in the super-draft.

 

Sometimes, when you pee in the bed, you have to lay in it.

[SFebes 4,884]

27 minutes ago, TGR said:

Gaff is vanilla squared.  He and Shuey are front-runners.

Surprised we didn't go for Saad last year.

We have paid 800k for Lever.  That makes TMac worth 900k in my book, which would be a bargain.  Do we have the luxury to keep purchasing, or do we try to keep our talent that will get offers in the next few years.

Lets go for outside speed in the super-draft.  Hang on, we have hand-delivered Adelaide our picks in the super-draft.

 

Sometimes, when you pee in the bed, you have to lay in it.

Yep I know you have that opinion of Gaff, but who else would you choose if not him? Mahoney says we have enough room for 1 maybe 2 stars. Vince may retire and free some up and potentially Lewis and Jones next year.

Edited July 2, 2018 by SFebey

[Deemania since 56 6,723]

21 hours ago, Elegt said:

Neal bullen and stretch on the wings. need the fittest players on them. Jones and Fritsch too slow and unfit 

Wingmen are fleet-footed with pace and will be needed to take a contested mark, regularly; those with 'spring' from their running attributes and flexibility do well. Wingmen need a little height with their speed to prevent marks (clear) and to take contested marks on many occasions. 

• Fritsch is ideal in both categories but just a little underdeveloped, physically. This is overcome by judicious weight training off-season, and in most cases, is relatively easier to achieve some bulk and greater strength for tackling.
• Jones is too short although he has some pace but recovered from bursts rather slowly last season and more slowly this season due to age. His tendency is to bomb into the forward line and this just cannot be permitted. Jones is a good foot-passer when intended yet only uses this skill rarely.
• ANB would be regarded as too small, as well, yet he is an excellent fitness model for the role. His passing skills are not always under control and his ball possession reliability is suspect.
• Stretch has most of the desired attributes whilst still a smaller player. HIs game needs to be settled for its development and he would need considerable attention to develop his marking, spring and foot-passing skills.
• Baker seems to have the goods for a wingman but there is a need to take him aside to develop his kicking, foot passing and linkage from areas in close to the 40-50m range, heads-up to a space/running teammate, making his own pace to receive. His improvement in this regard is the easiest to achieve. Perhaps a haircut might help, as well, just so that he can see where he might be going. 
• NB: Hannan and Wagner have also been considered in this comment.

In a nutshell, for me, it would be Fritsch and Stretch as the two wingmen for the MFC, with assistance from Baker and ANB, and perhaps Hannan and Wagner. I call them 'wingmen' but I think 'outside mids'. 

[Deemania since 56 6,723]

56 minutes ago, TGR said:

That makes TMac worth 900k in my book, which would be a bargain.  Do we have the luxury to keep purchasing, or do we try to keep our talent

My mate, talking footy, recommends such a trade of TMac at that price - $900K. Quickly, he added: 'Why not trade OMac alongside his big brother, both fetching $900 001?' 

[KingDingAling 3,758]

2 hours ago, TGR said:

Gaff is vanilla squared.  He and Shuey are front-runners.

Surprised we didn't go for Saad last year.

We have paid 800k for Lever.  That makes TMac worth 900k in my book, which would be a bargain.  Do we have the luxury to keep purchasing, or do we try to keep our talent that will get offers in the next few years.

Lets go for outside speed in the super-draft.  Hang on, we have hand-delivered Adelaide our picks in the super-draft.

 

Sometimes, when you pee in the bed, you have to lay in it.

We will be laying in it this year. We traded that pick (along with another quality pick) for a guy with an ACL history, paid him well, only for him to come out and do an ACL. No fault of Lever's mind you. He does appear to be a quality young lad. Fair play to him for getting top dollar for his services. We need to trade for an outside player but its a bit of stiff sh*t now, we will have to find that player within, unless we can miraculously pick one out of the draft (maybe a VFL type). Although, I still wouldn't discount Bayley Fritsch perhaps becoming the outside midfielder we need. He can do anything that kid. Another pre-season and I could see him transitioning into a full time midfielder. Probably one of the top 5 users by foot in the league and also has elite decision making.

[SFebes 4,884]

I think we need more than one, 4-5 runners and receivers needed. Essendon have Saad and McKenna tearing it up at the moment who are breaking games open

[Elegt 872]

4 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

No way would I do that or even nearly do that. Brayshaw is trending upwards in a massive way. Great month of footy and is improving every game. He would be our most improved this year. Gaff is a vanilla mid, who whilst I acknowledge he is mostly an outside mid, he is a slow outside mid. We need a Tim Kelly type mid - blistering on the outside. Personally I wouldn't even entertain a straight swap of Brayshaw for Gaff. Gaff is a FA and if WC match him then they can have him. Gaff is massively overrated on this board. 

gaff will be all Australian, brayshaw will not defensively run and butcher's every single kick. watch on the couch tonight to get a glimpse into his defensive running abilities.

[Big Demon 197]

Good to finally see a mature debate on this topic. Our inside mids are playing well competing for clearances and initiating inside 50’s but the outside group is still an issue. Tyson has not come one and arguably gone backwards, Brayshaw cannot kick, is lazy, slow and a witches hat defensively- they either run through him or step around him, ANB is a great athlete but also lacks polish with delivery.

The best at kicking to advantage inside 50 right now is Gawn, Harmes, Viney and Melksham. Fritsch has real talent and is worth a try, Hannan has been raised as an option too, he’s out of form up forward and seems to be flying rather than crumbing - the opposite of Hogan in recent times, Hannan has pace, a good tank and can deliver so also worth thinking about. 

[Big Demon 197]

On 7/1/2018 at 9:02 PM, Elegt said:

gaff for brayshaw is looking like a solid trade 

Yes lol extremely but the Eagles are not mugs

[spirit of norm smith 16,596]

Smart classy footballers still needed either through draft, FA or trade 

 

[deelete my account 1,194]

4 hours ago, TGR said:

If the club was hell-bent on paying superannuation 18 months ago, invest in a Boomer Harvey, who would have taken a 2 year deal, instead of treacle Lewis on a 3 year deal.  Would have added to us, and might have been the difference in 2017 and 2018.

We should've just kept Aaron Davey on the list from 2013-2018. He's still 5 years younger than Boomer and probably faster than our current outside mids! ? A shame he played in-between our most successful team of modern era and our current one..

Edited July 2, 2018 by John Demonic

[Elegt 872]

32 minutes ago, Big Demon said:

Yes lol extremely but the Eagles are not mugs

true 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

Its not that the players are unfit, they lack confidence. We beat the Saints merley 6 weeks ago we Didn't look slow then. Need to get the balance right. Players are fit however you see it. It is amazing what a win can do.

[Elegt 872]

1 hour ago, nosoupforme said:

Its not that the players are unfit, they lack confidence. We beat the Saints merley 6 weeks ago we Didn't look slow then. Need to get the balance right. Players are fit however you see it. It is amazing what a win can do.

they didn't look slow because the game was played at etihad which has smaller dimensions and relies less on hard running

[DV8 2,271]

7 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

Just gets the ball the 4th most in the comp, has elite fitness and above average kicking. He also actually kicks the ball which most of our midfielders are unable to do. He is a lot quicker than you are giving him credit for.

Disagree on Tim Kelly, solid player but I think he does his best work inside and I wouldn't call him an outside player.

Brayshaw has always been a poor kick, a handful of the posters on this site have been able to see this since his first few games. You can dodge around this issue with this foot, that foot. Essentially he is poor kick and it's always going to hold him back at AFL.

 

We do need more endurance Wtm... BUT we NEED pace much much more.

We have too many one paced types throughout... we need 2 or 3, quicker than one paced players, in our 22.

 

Gaff as another endurance player, is way too expensive, just for the elite endurance.

 

I would clearly have DeGoey ahead of a Gaff.

We don't need the fastest and 2nd fastest players in the comp.... but we do need a few quick players, that have breakaway tow. more than anything else.

 

And I do not subscribe to one dimensional quick's, like jeffy.

They MUST be able to roll up the sleeves and dive under packs with a smile,,, as well as be a goer on the outside, when they're in that position.

[DeleteUser 638]

7 hours ago, Big Demon said:

Good to finally see a mature debate on this topic. Our inside mids are playing well competing for clearances and initiating inside 50’s but the outside group is still an issue. Tyson has not come one and arguably gone backwards, Brayshaw cannot kick, is lazy, slow and a witches hat defensively- they either run through him or step around him, ANB is a great athlete but also lacks polish with delivery.

The best at kicking to advantage inside 50 right now is Gawn, Harmes, Viney and Melksham. Fritsch has real talent and is worth a try, Hannan has been raised as an option too, he’s out of form up forward and seems to be flying rather than crumbing - the opposite of Hogan in recent times, Hannan has pace, a good tank and can deliver so also worth thinking about. 

Like the idea of Hannan - worth a try

fritsch is going to be a superstar. Whoever found him needs a big gold star and exhorting to find more

[SFebes 4,884]

9 hours ago, nosoupforme said:

Its not that the players are unfit, they lack confidence. We beat the Saints merley 6 weeks ago we Didn't look slow then. Need to get the balance right. Players are fit however you see it. It is amazing what a win can do.

This concerns me. They are busting their gut in close with bash and crash but it must be sapping their confidence from all the effort and no results, lets hope we don't capitulate from here.