27 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I'm not convinced I can actually discern a gameplan.

I can see some fundamental problems, though. For example, why do three or sometimes even four of our players contest a mark or attempt a spoil, both in defence and attack? 

I agree with you re having 3-4 players up.  I don't mind it as much if they're killing the contest and the ball is going 15-20 metres away from the contest.  However too many times we're having 3-4 men up, the ball stays within 5 metres of the marking contest (or out the back, which happened at least 2-3 times) and it results in an easy goal to the opposition.

Edited May 8, 20178 yr by Gawn's Beard

29 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I'm not convinced I can actually discern a gameplan.

I can see some fundamental problems, though. For example, why do three or sometimes even four of our players contest a mark or attempt a spoil, both in defence and attack? 

Maybe that's Goodwins strategy after all...

Make our game plan so gob-smackingly indistinguishable that our opposition can't figure it out and counteract it.

58 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

yes we were bees to a honey pot yesterday, sometime with 4 up spoiling and mot one ground level player to contest.

Yes in defence and attack, we had 3-4 players up and no one at ground level.  A basic footy rule. I may have screamed out this about a dozen times yesterday.

46 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Maybe that's Goodwins strategy after all...

Make our game plan so gob-smackingly indistinguishable that our opposition can't figure it out and counteract it.

No its easy to counteract.

1. Pressure our players and they will turn it over because we overpossess it

2. Have 2 spare men in defence as we will bomb it in long.

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

 

I didn't see much of the game yesterday but last week against Essendon when we stopped stuffing around with the ball we were ten times better.

We all love Oliver and I jumped on his bandwagon well before many here, but he needs change his initial reaction of just handballing (especially backwards) to actually driving the ball forward through either running or kicking.

 

Good point especially his handball over his head behind him

I don't mind our use of handball and think we are one of the better teams at executing it to get out of tight spaces.

Our effort in the first half last week was shocking. Not enough numbers at the ball (which we've been really good at in almost every game) and too many missed tackles.

There were other important factors in the weekends game such as our lack of talls positioned down the line which allowed the Hawks to take too many contested marks but I'm happy to put that one down to personnel.

Once we get an even effort, we can then start considering whether our handball heavy game works or not.

Edited May 8, 20178 yr by WAClark

There seems to be much discussion about why it is we as supporters continue to see a trend in these particular games. Why is that yesterday, I was almost able to script what was going to happen before it happened? I knew we'd fight back after our poor start but I also thought we'd end up losing even if we did come back. It's all so familiar.

In my view, it's really simple. Not since the Daniher days have I seen us really hurt the opposition with consistent, quality ball-movement. Sure there have been glimpses, but never game after game after game. I have similarly never seen a really rock solid back six who consistently perform under pressure, make the right decisions and kick well more often than not. Again, I see glimpses of it all coming together. But I see it come undone just as quickly.

I implore posters and supporters to watch the entire first quarter as closely as possible and look at why Hawthorn were able to get a roll on after their first goal. You see, we play as a mistake-ridden team far too often because we have an abundance of individuals who make mistakes far too often. Basic, fundamental errors that occur far far too often. 

For all the excitement and potential we see with our young brigade, we also problem areas with those players one of which is ball use by foot. But supporters don't like to talk about that.

For all the quality pieces of play that Tom McDonald, Dom Tyson, Jack Watts, Tom Bugg etc do, they also do things that should rarely be seen at AFL level. But supporters don't like hearing or talking about those things. 

The easiest thing to spot yesterday early on in the game was how many mistakes we were making which allowed Hawthorn to get into the game. They punished us after we made mistakes because they still possess quality players who are extremely damaging by foot. Rioli, Gunston, Hodge and Bruest are all examples. 

 

I don't care that Nathan Jones butchered the ball a bit by foot yesterday because he rarely does it.

What I care about is the same [censored] I see almost fortnightly year upon year with a certain bunch that just doesn't seem to change.

Here are some examples:

- Basic mis-kicks and handballs to the wrong option.

- Ball use going inside 50  

- Four or more defenders going up to spoil the same ball resulting in an opposition score

- Not killing a ball in the air as a defender 

- Dropping an uncontested mark as a defender 

- Lacking in general intensity and urgency in and around the contest 

 

Our coach banned two metre handballs.

Not sure if this is old fashioned or not but the Roos rugby method is still very evident in our play.

Over use by hand or spraying easy kicks is our hallmark.

And the worst problem is losing the first quearters so horrendously.

Any team can at least break even in q1.

'cept us.

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

No its easy to counteract.

1. Pressure our players and they will turn it over because we overpossess it

2. Have 2 spare men in defence as we will bomb it in long.

I was being facetious 

The Suns defeated the Hawks by 86 points and notched up 242 handballs.

We are 5th in handballs behind Geelong, Adelaide, GC and Bulldogs.

We are 3rd in kicks behind Carlton and Essendon.

Maybe we're not hand-balling enough?

12 minutes ago, Skuit said:

The Suns defeated the Hawks by 86 points and notched up 242 handballs.

We are 5th in handballs behind Geelong, Adelaide, GC and Bulldogs.

We are 3rd in kicks behind Carlton and Essendon.

Maybe we're not hand-balling enough?

Or to advantage ?

Circle work then giving it to opponent probably doesn't help the positive ebb of our game 

Sometimes I think the overuse of the handball is because we have nothing to aim for by foot up forward. That comes in part from a forward line of Hogan and Watts and frequently it's just not tall enough. I think it also comes in part from structures - opposition coaches are, I think, playing us the same way by getting extra numbers behind the ball. When we're trying to bring the ball out of the backline we are consistently looking up and seeing a wave of opponents.

I also think we are actively trying to use the handball more than other clubs. We set up at centre bounces with a half-forward coming off the back of the square. There is only one reason for that and it's to have a runner coming through the stoppage to receive a handball to get forward movement. We are setting up at centre bounces with our mids thinking about handballing to that running player. And of course, if they decide to kick it, we're outnumbered up forward because we've sent one or two half-forwards to the backline.

For most of this year our intent at the contest has been really good, probably for 3 out of every 4 quarters in every game we have been really strong. Against the Hawks, the opposite was the case for 3 out of the 4 quarters. We were lethargic, with no outside run, and very little movement from behind the ball. In the last quarter Lewis took a mark in the middle of the ground,  looked both sides for a ahandball option he was expecting, but had to go back and kick into the Hawks zone. 

But our handball-mad defensive extractions from stoppages or defensive positions are poorly planned, poorly executed, and to the benefit of our opposition. Unfortunately, I think it IS a central part of the instructed gameplan but they are doing it with so many unforced errors invovled that it is failing. Personally, I would rather them erase it from the gameplan - we are not Geelong of 2007 - 2011 whose handball was elite, electric, efficient and effective. We are the Dees of 2017 and our basic skills are tragically poor and our decision making worse. We can't even get rid of the decade-long habit of handballing to a team mate in a worse, stationary position! 

Again our sins of overuse were exposed and North were ready for the slow 4-5 circular handball game. Wake up Goodwin. Ineffective handballs going 50 cms is useless in contested congestion.

Clayton Oliver will be a potential star but 3 of his errant handballs caused turnovers and led to North goals.

Like in the last quarter, when Oliver runs and kicks (and goals), we are a very dangerous team.