Praise the returning hero!

[stuie 7,374]

25 minutes ago, Chris said:

"just think before all this footy club culture was all based on trust, so when the club legend who is your coach, and the highly paid medical staff come and tell you to go on a medical program that is totally safe and legal you would believe them."

That sounds a hell of a lot like excusing the players because the 'club culture' said it was all OK. From what you have written it appears you think the club should have stuck by the rules and the players just follow along. That goes directly against the ASADA training.

These are two different things.

I'm saying I understand how it happened, but I'm also saying they did the wrong thing and deserved to be punished.

 

[Ted Lasso 17,208]

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

These are two different things.

I'm saying I understand how it happened, but I'm also saying they did the wrong thing and deserved to be punished.

 

Out of curiosity Stuie, how do you feel about the backdated 2 year penalties, do you feel it was enough based on what they've been found guilty of?

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, Abe said:

Out of curiosity Stuie, how do you feel about the backdated 2 year penalties, do you feel it was enough based on what they've been found guilty of?

I find the whole concept of backdated penalties really bizarre, especially if you're going to court to contest your innocence.

I feel the players punishment was suitable, but the club, Hird and Dank all got off very lightly.

 

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Knowing Jobe personally, I'm over reading posts like this and haven't commented a great deal about the saga because some minds are impenetrable.

Dank and Hird were the perpetrators with the players being lead to believe that everything being administered was legal and the players signed consent forms stating the program was ASADA approved. It was leading edge and they were the first club to run the program.

If anyone has been involved in any form of elite sport, you'd know that supplement programs are a big part of preparation, recovery and performance. No doubting this was really pushing the boundaries but to reiterate, if you're an elite level athlete who is used to supplement programs and have been told that you're about to be partaking in a program to help reach your physical potential and that everything was legal, why would you question it?

Although it might sound an odd/simplistic analogy, I wonder for instance how many of those who have taken an Ecstasy pill would know what else (other than MDMA) is cut to make up that pill, and that they'd therefore be consuming. Of course MDMA is present. But I assure you it's not only MDMA. Ketamine, broken glass, Caffeine, Meth and plenty of trace amounts of other substances.

The same can be said for the players who partook in the supplements program. A football club is not a Chemistry lab. And I highly doubt anyone who has even taken any sort of pre or post recovery drink really has an understanding of what it is they're consuming. Dank was trusted. Hird trusted Dank. And Dr Bruce Reid was the only one who began raising concerns about what was going on at a later date.

I dislike Essendon a lot. But not because of this. Two people out of an entire club have caused this.

Finally some balance.  Unfortunately, if you stick your head up over the parapet on here, its likely to get shot off.  People can hate Essendon as much as they like.  As I have said on other posts, next to Richmond, their the team I loathe most.  But the young men who were suckered into this debacle should not be pilloried to the extent they are.

Well said.

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by iv'a worn smith

[daisycutter 28,709]

7 minutes ago, stuie said:

I find the whole concept of backdated penalties really bizarre, especially if you're going to court to contest your innocence.

I feel the players punishment was suitable, but the club, Hird and Dank all got off very lightly.

 

what do you think of the media treating them like returned heroes?

[ArtificialWisdom 3,945]

[Chris 2,892]

8 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Finally some balance.  Unfortunately, if you stick your head up over the parapet on here, its likely to get shot off.  People can hate Essendon as much as they like.  As I have said on other posts, next to Richmond, their the team I loathe most.  But the young men who were suckered into this debacle should not be pilloried to the extent they are.

Well said.

 

So I guess you don't think they need to take the required standards of their profession seriously then?

Yes they trusted the wrong people, yes those people decieved them, but the players are also massively at fault for not taking their own personal responsibilities seriously. If they had then none of this would have happened. In fact they did exactly what you are trained not to do which is trust your coach or team doctor with what is and isn't legal.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

5 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Finally some balance.  Unfortunately, if you stick your head up over the parapet on here, its likely to get shot off.  People can hate Essendon as much as they like.  As I have said on other posts, next to Richmond, their the team I loathe most.  But the young men who were suckered into this debacle should not be pilloried to the extent they are.

Well said.

 

They weren't 'suckered in', as my [unfortunately] repeated posts about their disclosure forms indicate.

They also aren't pilloried, at least in any medium that counts. Sure, we have a go here and probably other forums do too, but the media coverage has been overtly favourable to them, and that's the medium that counts.

Part of my issue with the whole sorry saga is that the media has given them a very light ride, something that would not have been extended to any other drug cheat in any other code or country.

Jobe's done his time and he can come back. Fine. But the media needs to stop with this victom/hero/good bloke stuff.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

5 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Then get out of the thread man, honestly.

If drugs in the AFL and the media reporting of that issue isn't important to you, then why bother reading this thread?

 

Edit: and clearly, many people care (on both sides of the argument)

Edited September 23, 2016 by Choke

[Ted Lasso 17,208]

18 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Finally some balance.  Unfortunately, if you stick your head up over the parapet on here, its likely to get shot off.  People can hate Essendon as much as they like.  As I have said on other posts, next to Richmond, their the team I loathe most.  But the young men who were suckered into this debacle should not be pilloried to the extent they are.

Well said.

 

I assume you don't believe they had any part in concealing information from the appropriate authorities and see this as just some extremely unprofessional young men who didn't understand just how careful they need to be? it's a really interesting point, negligence vs actively cheating.

[chook fowler 18,465]

27 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

what do you think of the media treating them like returned heroes?

I'm feeling quite nauseous 

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

31 minutes ago, Chris said:

So I guess you don't think they need to take the required standards of their profession seriously then?

Yes they trusted the wrong people, yes those people decieved them, but the players are also massively at fault for not taking their own personal responsibilities seriously. If they had then none of this would have happened. In fact they did exactly what you are trained not to do which is trust your coach or team doctor with what is and isn't legal.

Really?????  Amazing

Edited September 23, 2016 by iv'a worn smith

[CBDees 3,162]

We've got a (Casey) Grand Final on Sunday but everybody is posting on this post! ? Why when we have a team team to support?  ( Nobody has posted on the Casey Grand Final thread for over three hours!)

Edited September 23, 2016 by CBDees

[Chris 2,892]

3 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Really?????  Amazing

Absolutely. It is drummed into you that you do the check, do not trust anyone to do it for you (think Sharipova), you do it yourself. When I did the training int he 90's I was clearly and specifically told 'do not trust your coach, GP, team doctor, physio, or anyone else with what is and is not banned'. Every thing you are prescribed or asked to take you check yourself. I had a GP at the time who was great, he would call ASDA (as it was then) to check and find something that was legal and then get me to do my own check to make sure. He was onto it. The AFL in general are not. 

[jnrmac 19,413]

53 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

what do you think of the media treating them like returned heroes?

Sickening

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

4 minutes ago, Chris said:

Absolutely. It is drummed into you that you do the check, do not trust anyone to do it for you (think Sharipova), you do it yourself. When I did the training int he 90's I was clearly and specifically told 'do not trust your coach, GP, team doctor, physio, or anyone else with what is and is not banned'. Every thing you are prescribed or asked to take you check yourself. I had a GP at the time who was great, he would call ASDA (as it was then) to check and find something that was legal and then get me to do my own check to make sure. He was onto it. The AFL in general are not. 

Nice to know you have such an intimate knowledge of the process and dialogue which goes on between player, coach and doctor.  Unbelievable.

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

This is a response to all of those who are astronomically simplifying an incredibly complex situation by stating what they think the players 'should' have done after much of the evidence was brought to light, years later.

To take any form of moral high-ground without having physically been in the situation that those players were in is [censored] insane. By far the easiest thing to do is to say, 'questions should have been asked there and then'.

This is a Melbourne supporter forum talking about an opposition club and it's players. Is it any wonder the overwhelming number of opposition supporters point the blame at the Essendon players? Any at all?

I refuse to respond after this, again because of the complexity the situation that clearly many posters are oblivious to.

Below is the four corners interview with Hal Hunter, a former Essendon rookie. Some of you should have a watch before sitting back from your ego-strong standpoint and pointing the finger at players who were masterfully manipulated and betrayed by a handful of people. 

That's enough from me.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2016/03/21/4426753.htm

 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by stevethemanjordan

[jnrmac 19,413]

55 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Finally some balance.  Unfortunately, if you stick your head up over the parapet on here, its likely to get shot off.  People can hate Essendon as much as they like.  As I have said on other posts, next to Richmond, their the team I loathe most.  But the young men who were suckered into this debacle should not be pilloried to the extent they are.

Well said.

 

I think you are off the mark here IWS. They pushed it over the line and lost. Then tried to cover up or obfuscate. You can't treat these cases with kid gloves. The stakes are too high.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Like I said, if you stick your head up over the parapet on here, its likely to get shot off.  Lucky I have two heads.

[jnrmac 19,413]

12 minutes ago, CBDees said:

We've got a (Casey) Grand Final on Sunday but everybody is posting on this post! ? Why when we have a team team to support?  ( Nobody has posted on the Casey Grand Final thread for over three hours!)

Go scorps.

[Willmoy1947 3,825]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

Call ASAD and get the all clear. If someone gives you something out of a non labelled vial then you don't take it, simple. If what is in the vial is not what is on the label then you sue the pants off the person who deceived you. Why has no one sued Dank?

Stay tuned......Free season tickets to bikies at Ess.

[biggestred 4,409]

The same hal hunter who asked essendon for records and they were trying to get costs from him.

That club is a disgrace

They cheated

 

They got busted red handed like the kid in the garden ripping up daisys

Theyve since used every trick in the book to get out of it

Even their arrogance today having a press conference on the same day as a prelim

Theres not much thats complicated about it

[Chris 2,892]

8 minutes ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Nice to know you have such an intimate knowledge of the process and dialogue which goes on between player, coach and doctor.  Unbelievable.

 

I have a fairly good knowledge of the dialogue that goes on from ASADA to athletes and what athletes are expected to do and what they are told not to do. As it is a global set of rules with a specific set of procedures Australia wide it would not matter which sport it is the procedures and responsibilities do not change. The dialogue from coach and doctor to player is actually irrelevant when it comes to these responsibilities. 

[ManDee 7,093]

4 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Knowing Jobe personally, I'm over reading posts like this and haven't commented a great deal about the saga because some minds are impenetrable.

Dank and Hird were the perpetrators with the players being lead to believe that everything being administered was legal and the players signed consent forms stating the program was ASADA approved. It was leading edge and they were the first club to run the program.

If anyone has been involved in any form of elite sport, you'd know that supplement programs are a big part of preparation, recovery and performance. No doubting this was really pushing the boundaries but to reiterate, if you're an elite level athlete who is used to supplement programs and have been told that you're about to be partaking in a program to help reach your physical potential and that everything was legal, why would you question it?

Although it might sound an odd/simplistic analogy, I wonder for instance how many of those who have taken an Ecstasy pill would know what else (other than MDMA) is cut to make up that pill, and that they'd therefore be consuming. Of course MDMA is present. But I assure you it's not only MDMA. Ketamine, broken glass, Caffeine, Meth and plenty of trace amounts of other substances.

The same can be said for the players who partook in the supplements program. A football club is not a Chemistry lab. And I highly doubt anyone who has even taken any sort of pre or post recovery drink really has an understanding of what it is they're consuming. Dank was trusted. Hird trusted Dank. And Dr Bruce Reid was the only one who began raising concerns about what was going on at a later date.

I dislike Essendon a lot. But not because of this. Two people out of an entire club have caused this.

He lied about hundreds of injections he received  on multiple occaisions -GUILTY

[Willmoy1947 3,825]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

I find the whole concept of backdated penalties really bizarre, especially if you're going to court to contest your innocence.

I feel the players punishment was suitable, but the club, Hird and Dank all got off very lightly.

 

Half like