40 minutes ago, Demons2riseagain said:

I think most people would agree that Geelong and the Hawks have had an incredible benefit under free agency. 

 

I really don't have a good feeling about the salary caps at those 2 (and other) clubs. I smell a rat and have a feeling in my bones that it will be a story in the future. I think, and it is only my thoughts, that they have found a loophole in the system. I don't buy that so many senior players have taken pay cuts at Hawthorn for example. Its a nice story but I think its more likely that they have been switched to alternate payment methods. You wouldn't do that with a new recruit, only those you know and trust ie: players that have been in the club for a while.

It reminds me of years ago when a Richmond player took the club to task after his promised 'no loose investments" didn't return what they where meant to and they where used as part of the agreement to him to sign.

14 minutes ago, Left Foot Snap said:

I really don't have a good feeling about the salary caps at those 2 (and other) clubs. I smell a rat and have a feeling in my bones that it will be a story in the future. I think, and it is only my thoughts, that they have found a loophole in the system. I don't buy that so many senior players have taken pay cuts at Hawthorn for example. Its a nice story but I think its more likely that they have been switched to alternate payment methods. You wouldn't do that with a new recruit, only those you know and trust ie: players that have been in the club for a while.

It reminds me of years ago when a Richmond player took the club to task after his promised 'no loose investments" didn't return what they where meant to and they where used as part of the agreement to him to sign.

A lot of those senior Geelong players are canny investors. The most effective MBA  in the country. 

'No woe is me', from my point of view.

We'll be the biggest winners of the trade/free agency period due to the critical re-signing of Hogan.

The re-signing of Hogan is far more valuable than the following players nominating Melbourne as their club of choice:

1) A solid b+ meat and potato midfielder (Prestia)

2) A potential champion who hasn't played a game since iPhone 5's were the hottest thing in town (O'Meara)

3) A good midfielder with no pace and slightly questionable disposal (Mitchell)

4) A 32 year old who once played 6 games in 2 years (Wells)

5) a player that hasn't had a good season since 2012 (Mayne)

6) A forward ruck that has been even  more inconsistent than Watts (Vickery)

 

 

Edited October 9, 20168 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

I'm sure clubs like Collingwood and Hawthorn exploit loopholes in the salary cap, such as securing luxurious discounts on things like cars from their primary sponsors. For example, if a player wishes to purchase a car from Audi (Hawks), Jeep (Richmond) or Holden (Collingwood), they almost certainly receive them on the cheap with the club offsetting the costs somehow outside of the cap.

It's no secret that Eddie uses his connections in the media to secure Collingwood players handsome "appearance fees" on The Footy Show, none of which fall under the salary cap.

1 hour ago, Demons2riseagain said:

I think most people would agree that Geelong and the Hawks have had an incredible benefit under free agency. 

The number of players they've gained far outweighs the loss of 1 player.

Mitchell hasn't gone yet

plus I think players like ablet and buddy probably left to get out of the media fishbowl-(plus buddy's partner in Sydney) so you can understand that. 

And $10m.

40 minutes ago, Left Foot Snap said:

I really don't have a good feeling about the salary caps at those 2 (and other) clubs. I smell a rat and have a feeling in my bones that it will be a story in the future. I think, and it is only my thoughts, that they have found a loophole in the system. I don't buy that so many senior players have taken pay cuts at Hawthorn for example. Its a nice story but I think its more likely that they have been switched to alternate payment methods. You wouldn't do that with a new recruit, only those you know and trust ie: players that have been in the club for a while.

It reminds me of years ago when a Richmond player took the club to task after his promised 'no loose investments" didn't return what they where meant to and they where used as part of the agreement to him to sign.

What you are suggesting that other clubs are making Judd type payments outside the salary cap. That would be naughty. 

21 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

I'm sure clubs like Collingwood and Hawthorn exploit loopholes in the salary cap, such as securing luxurious discounts on things like cars from their primary sponsors. For example, if a player wishes to purchase a car from Audi (Hawks), Jeep (Richmond) or Holden (Collingwood), they almost certainly receive them on the cheap with the club offsetting the costs somehow outside of the cap.

It's no secret that Eddie uses his connections in the media to secure Collingwood players handsome "appearance fees" on The Footy Show, none of which fall under the salary cap.

AHG?  Watts Vince appear regularly for nothing on Footy Show?   grassy knoll again methinks

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

AHG?  Watts Vince appear regularly for nothing on Footy Show?   grassy knoll again methinks

And Maxxy the new comedy star. 

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

What you are suggesting that other clubs are making Judd type payments outside the salary cap. That would be naughty. 

I think these days if any club attempted it they would be very stupid, precedents have been set

1 hour ago, Demons2riseagain said:

I think most people would agree that Geelong and the Hawks have had an incredible benefit under free agency. 

Prior to this draft, other than Frawley, who have Hawthorn secured under free agency ?

3 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Prior to this draft, other than Frawley, who have Hawthorn secured under free agency ?

Jonathan Simpkin was a huge pick up in 2012.  Total game changer.

If anything the Hawks have lost out from Free Agency, as they've only picked up Simpkin and Frawley, while losing Buddy Franklin in the process.

Demons2riseagain is talking out of his back pocket on this one.

With our improved list, group of youngsters, who need games and development, loss of first round pick and new found professionalism, in not leaking like a sieve, it is hardly surprising that our name doesn't come up, against every single player mentioned as leaving his club, as happens with some other clubs.

Our philosophy is hopefully, if a player doesn't look good enough to make our 22, or at least in the ruck/forward role be able to provide good depth, then avoid them and draft our own.  

That said we may still be targetting someone, but without using next year's first pick, given we don't have much to trade, this may not be the year, unless we are targetting a very good player who would be worthy of our first pick in 2017. Mitchell could fit that bill, but IMO the Swans would be mad to let him go. 

My prediction then is a fairly subdued trade week, where we get Hibberd early and then maybe a Barlow type, who could make our 22, but obtained fairly cheaply.

 

I think players also take into account is if they will get a regular game. Getting hard to get a game at Melbourne recently so that's why teams like the tigers, saints and carlton get nominated.

They get decent $ anywhere they go and as long as its not a total  basket case  they'll get chosen.

The only way to beat this is too pay outlandish contrast, hence the tigers?

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Jonathan Simpkin was a huge pick up in 2012.  Total game changer.

If anything the Hawks have lost out from Free Agency, as they've only picked up Simpkin and Frawley, while losing Buddy Franklin in the process.

Demons2riseagain is talking out of his back pocket on this one.

They've certainly traded well though.

Since 2009 they have brought in Gibson, Burgoyne, Lake, Hale, Gunston, McEvoy and Hill, along with a few others who haven't gone as planned. Being the most sought after 'destination' club meant at times they could pay a little less for certain players.

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

AHG?  Watts Vince appear regularly for nothing on Footy Show?   grassy knoll again methinks

 

If you really think types like McGuire play fairly inside the rulebook, there's no point even wasting my energy explaining to you how reality works in the industry.

But, whatever helps you sleep at night I guess!

Edited October 9, 20168 yr by Grapeviney
Leave the personal attacks out of it please

8 minutes ago, Luther said:

They've certainly traded well though.

Since 2009 they have brought in Gibson, Burgoyne, Lake, Hale, Gunston, McEvoy and Hill, along with a few others who haven't gone as planned. Being the most sought after 'destination' club meant at times they could pay a little less for certain players.

Absolutely.  Not denying or arguing that they haven't traded very well over the last 6-7 years.  I was merely pointing out that they haven't been given a 'leg up' through free agency as another poster suggested.

OK, all this talk about the Dees is good and well, but as this is the "trade whispers" thread, thought I would add I whisper I heard from a reliable source close to the club...

 

Lynden Dunne and next years 2nd round pick for Tom Rockliff. Dunne deal apparently....

 

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Absolutely.  Not denying or arguing that they haven't traded very well over the last 6-7 years.  I was merely pointing out that they haven't been given a 'leg up' through free agency as another poster suggested.

I'm totally in agreement, just thought I'd add to what you were saying because a lot of people do lament Hawthorns success under the 'free agency era'.

4 minutes ago, Bring Back Barassi said:

OK, all this talk about the Dees is good and well, but as this is the "trade whispers" thread, thought I would add I whisper I heard from a reliable source close to the club...

 

Lynden Dunne and next years 2nd round pick for Tom Rockliff. Dunne deal apparently....

 

Surely you jest!

5 minutes ago, Bring Back Barassi said:

OK, all this talk about the Dees is good and well, but as this is the "trade whispers" thread, thought I would add I whisper I heard from a reliable source close to the club...

 

Lynden Dunne and next years 2nd round pick for Tom Rockliff. Dunne deal apparently....

 

Great rumour if true BBB. I thought the Lions had gone off Dunn because of Frost and what they said the other day. 

However, if you watched Peter Schwab the other day,  he couldn't hide his disdain for Rockliff, so it could be true. Hope it is, as he would complete our inside mids and is a goalkicker as well.

It seems a deal slanted our way, but maybe something to do with his high salary is in the mix. 

He clearly needs to get away from that club, hopefully to us.

5 minutes ago, Bring Back Barassi said:

OK, all this talk about the Dees is good and well, but as this is the "trade whispers" thread, thought I would add I whisper I heard from a reliable source close to the club...

 

Lynden Dunne and next years 2nd round pick for Tom Rockliff. Dunne deal apparently....

 

If other clubs knew that Rockliff was going that cheap, surely the Lions would be receiving far better offers?

If Giants can get hold of pick 2 from Lions, for an early pick and a player, or another pick, I can see the Bombers getting a Giants player cheaply, when the real payment is not picking McGrath,  who the Giants are apparently desperate to get.  

It could also be a swap of 1 for 2 and a player or extra pick.

We will see.  Just a feeling.

3 hours ago, FlashInThePan said:

The whole 'woe is me' drone gets so tiresome, and a lot of what is said around attracting talent is simply guess work and opinion. Which is fine accept that people seem to constantly post it as though it is fact. My opinion is that 4 factors play into attracting players of any calibre: 

1. Money (and contract duration)
2. Opportunity to play and play a role they want
3. Likelihood to experience success
4. Workplace culture (are there people and coaches they admire and are people happy there)

All of the above have to be measured against what that person is experiencing where they are.

We had a hard time with culture and the likelihood of experiencing success for a while there but the culture has clearly been fixed and we seem set to prove out the likelihood of experiencing success. Of course, for the latter, seeing will be believing. Once that has happened we will eventually attract the free agents and players we need or want to ice the cake. Until then we are doing an extremely good job, finally, of developing it in-house. I personally think that bringing in Macca has been one of the best moves of the club. Roos has dealt with the culture and loving coming into work thing and Goodwin is working on strategy and winning in the modern game. Macca has done an awesome job of developing the kids that Josh, Todd and Jason have brought in.

I don't think there is any upside in moaning about who is nominating (or not nominating) us, when we play finals next season the final piece will be there and hopefully free agency can finally start working for us and not against us.

I agree with this whole heartedly!!...there's various motivating factors in play and some appeal more to others. These factors have definitely been addressed and I hope it continues. looking forward not back!

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Jonathan Simpkin was a huge pick up in 2012.  Total game changer.

If anything the Hawks have lost out from Free Agency, as they've only picked up Simpkin and Frawley, while losing Buddy Franklin in the process.

Demons2riseagain is talking out of his back pocket on this one.

The Hawks/Geelong/Collingwood etc are commonly nominated by players as their 'preferred club'. Surely you'd agree to that?

8 minutes ago, Luther said:

If other clubs knew that Rockliff was going that cheap, surely the Lions would be receiving far better offers?

It could be BS, who knows, but Rockliff has baggage and a huge salary and maybe some clubs are just not interested.

He does seem gone from the Lions though and if it can be done early in trade week, it would really allow them to get out there and do deals.

i love the rumours in trade week, even though most come to nothing.

Come back chilliboy and tell us how every star in the AFL is coming to us.