2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Are you trying to infer our young team wouldn't have tired if we had had the 32 year old Dal Santo in our 22?

 

Just now, PaulRB said:

You've lost me.

 

9 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

I think if you look at the 2016 season our young team were cooked by round 21. Young players, soft bodies and minds, were done 6 weeks before the GF. We need to get tougher, more experienced while continuing to develop our kids... Nicky helps do that for a year or two.

 

5 minutes ago, AngryAtCasey said:

Do you recall the standard of our I50's v West Coast? That's just one example of how he"d help.

Yeah, let's recruit a stop a gap player for a year. That's fantastic. 

Or, we could actually look at an alternative long-term option for the club. If we're vying for a top four position, I can understand the sentiment. But we're not, he's a waste of a place. He's not going to be the difference between making the 8 and missing out. Our improvement needs to come from elsewhere. 

10 minutes ago, BLWNBA said:

Yeah, let's recruit a stop a gap player for a year. That's fantastic. 

Or, we could actually look at an alternative long-term option for the club. If we're vying for a top four position, I can understand the sentiment. But we're not, he's a waste of a place. He's not going to be the difference between making the 8 and missing out. Our improvement needs to come from elsewhere. 

It depends on what value you place on leadership. I place a great deal upon it. In that sense it is absolutely looking to the long term as it is giving the Brayshaws and Petraccas another senior figure to help guide them in what are still formative years. If the recruitment was looking further towards a coaching appointment that strengthens the argument.

As others have said, it's all very well to say that a leader in the 24-28 age bracket would make a better target, but those players aren't exactly growing on trees.

With all of Grimes, Lumumba, Dawes, Dunn and Garland in the firing line, we are staring down the barrel of going from extremely young to obscenely young, with the danger of a backwards step we can ill afford. Despite what any might think of their value on field, they would all be contributing signficiantly off field. Replacing them all with more kids isn't a feasible option.

I get that players like Thompson and NDS aren't the sexiest of targets, and they may not be the answer, but we should absolutely be considering players in this category for where the list is at. Expecting the younger players to take over the club now isn't realistic. Some of the key names are in their third year of AFL.

3 minutes ago, P-man said:

It depends on what value you place on leadership. I place a great deal upon it. In that sense it is absolutely looking to the long term as it is giving the Brayshaws and Petraccas another senior figure to help guide them in what are still formative years. If the recruitment was looking further towards a coaching appointment that strengthens the argument.

2

I totally agree with what you're saying. Leadership is extremely important, we've cried out for it in certain games and we've potentially lost a few because of it. I just don't see NDS as fitting into the realm of leadership, nor does he have an ability to improve our list (for the previous reasons I've listed). 

I essentially agree with most of things that you've stated, I just don't apply these provisions to Dal Santo. 

21 minutes ago, BLWNBA said:

Yeah, let's recruit a stop a gap player for a year. That's fantastic. 

Or, we could actually look at an alternative long-term option for the club. If we're vying for a top four position, I can understand the sentiment. But we're not, he's a waste of a place. He's not going to be the difference between making the 8 and missing out. Our improvement needs to come from elsewhere. 

By your reasoning the club shouldn't have recruited Cross, as he wasn't a long term option? Surely he wasn't the difference between 2 to 4 wins and then 4 to 7? 

Why do you think the club has made a point of going on about how young we are after each loss?  We lack experience! Dal Santo or Harvey or whoever only for 12 months means an extra pre-season into our younger players before they're expected to carry to big a load.

1 hour ago, BLWNBA said:

Dal Santo is an interesting one. I've had a look at his stats for 2016 and using AFL ranking points he would have been a fifth highest ranked player this year. With only Gawn, McDonald, Viney and Jones ahead oh him. Dal Santo was ranked #121. However, despite this, I'm not sure Dal Santo would fit our list. I agree Cross was an overwhelming success. But as a club, we were in a different position then. Our players are continuing to develop and with the addition of Melksham and Hibberd looking likely, I feel we'd only be robbing one of our young players from much-needed development time. I'd much rather we look at another mid in the 23-28-year-old bracket who may not necessarily be a list clogger at his current club, but rather, superfluous to the current clubs needs. 

Personally, I'd even rather look at Scotty Thompson if he was wanting to transition into a coaching role. Yes, I'm aware he is in this same age bracket, but at least we would be able to potentially gain further use out of Thompson than purely just a one-year contract. For the purposes of comparison, Thompson and Dal Santo were rather similarly ranked, #121 and #132 respectively. 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, AngryAtCasey said:

By your reasoning the club shouldn't have recruited Cross, as he wasn't a long term option? Surely he wasn't the difference between 2 to 4 wins and then 4 to 7? 

Why do you think the club has made a point of going on about how young we are after each loss?  We lack experience! Dal Santo or Harvey or whoever only for 12 months means an extra pre-season into our younger players before they're expected to carry to big a load.

 

 

Maybe read over my original post, I never suggested that and that's not my logic at all. If you can't apply the reasoning as to why these two situations are different, then I'm not even going to waste my time quantifying why. Read over and analyse what I've posted, believe it or not, I have never stated we don't need experience. I don't even have a problem recruiting an older player. Clearly, as I have stated, clarified and reposted, I'm contending that NDS is not the player to provide any of those things. 

I'd rather push Ben K into the midfield.

Dal Santo.....really???

I'm inclined to wait until we get Goodwin's assistant sorted, to include his (the new coach's) opinion on who would be suitable as well as who would have the most up to date perspective.

46 minutes ago, stuie said:

 

 

 

I'm saying adding an experienced mature player with many seasons and finals to our squad is a better option than adding another kid we pick up at pick 81...

There are many leadership, professionalism, etc... benefits, but by simply sharing the load with a broader group of 22 capable players (and NDS would be top 22 next year) we'd be better able to reach finals and win them when we get there.

 

25 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

I'm saying adding an experienced mature player with many seasons and finals to our squad is a better option than adding another kid we pick up at pick 81...

There are many leadership, professionalism, etc... benefits, but by simply sharing the load with a broader group of 22 capable players (and NDS would be top 22 next year) we'd be better able to reach finals and win them when we get there.

 

But we don't have to use that pick to get him, and we still have to use 3 draft picks no matter what.

One old bloke is not going to help the collective tank of the team.

 

On 9/7/2016 at 2:38 PM, stuie said:

But we don't have to use that pick to get him, and we still have to use 3 draft picks no matter what.

One old bloke is not going to help the collective tank of the team.

 

Does a rookie upgrade count as using a national draft pick within the three required? 

12 minutes ago, Abe said:

Does a rookie upgrade count as using a national draft pick within the three required? 

I don't think so, but I'm not 100% sure. Been so many changes to the rookie list, veterans list etc I haven't really kept up.

Anyone?

 

28 minutes ago, Abe said:

Does a rookie upgrade count as using a national draft pick within the three required? 

 

14 minutes ago, stuie said:

I don't think so, but I'm not 100% sure. Been so many changes to the rookie list, veterans list etc I haven't really kept up.

Anyone?

 

If you promote a rookie then you would only need to make two selections at the draft, 0 promotions then 3 selections etc.

As for the point i think PaulRB is making i think Stue, isn't that we'd need to trade Pick 81 for Dal Santo, but if there's an available spot on our list, then it's a choice of either recruiting Dal Santo, or using a 3rd pick at the draft, being Pick 81 (Given our 2nd round will go for Hibberd).

1 hour ago, Abe said:

Does a rookie upgrade count as using a national draft pick within the three required? 

Yes

54 minutes ago, stuie said:

I don't think so, but I'm not 100% sure. Been so many changes to the rookie list, veterans list etc I haven't really kept up.

Anyone?

 

"Rookie list promotions are included among the compulsory minimum of three selections that each club must have at the draft, but the names of these players will not be formally read out at the draft". http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-24/indicative-draft-order-your-clubs-provisional-picks-as-trade-period-unfolds

I would be very surprised if Wagner is not one of those 3, given he has been nominated by MFC for the AFL Players Best First Year Player award.

Edit:  Dal Santo will be delisted making him a DFA.  If he wants to play on the team he chooses gets him for 'free' and no draft pick required.  Only need a list spot and salary cap.

11 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

We need to get older and if getting a proven quantity in Dal Santo makes us older then fine.

I don't know about everyone else, but I got a bit sick of the club blaming every loss on inexperience and youth. We should've kept a really good AFL player in Cross (who was desperate to play on and averaged 31 touches in his final 2 games).

 

I understand the need for experience but not a 34 yr old who has no pace 

Nicky Dal?

It's a Darth Vader noooooooooo from me.

 

Moves with the speed of a Glacier like Thompson.

13 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

As I stated on the Thompson thread, I disagree with recruiting this type of player now. Our young players did well this year and will only get better. Rather than the Dal/Thompsons let's develop another younger player.

Yeah like Clarry Choo Choo!

Having said trhat if NQR players like Michie, Newton, Anb can get a game he is streets ahead of those fringe players easy!

Barrett allegedly announcing something tonight re: Dal Santo.

6 minutes ago, AngryAtCasey said:

Barrett allegedly announcing something tonight re: Dal Santo.

Announcing where?

Just now, DemonLad5 said:

Announcing where?

I'd assume the Footy Show.

1 minute ago, BLWNBA said:

I'd assume the Footy Show.

what time?

Just now, DemonLad5 said:

what time?

I believe it's on now. 

2 minutes ago, BLWNBA said:

I believe it's on now. 

cheers

Said the pies were chasing him hard nothing on us