Free to Air...are we becoming irrelevant

[Dr. Gonzo 24,309]

20 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i know it was your last post on this matter but you are quite wrong

FTTN is NOT more or less what we had (adsl) and it is NOT by any stretch limited to only 24mb/s. It is FAR superior to adsl in performance.

jnr is also right when he states that with the existing FTTP connections VERY FEW customers are signing up for the highest speeds. ie they are signing up for lower speeds (mainly but not not only because they do not want to pay the higher charges for the top tiers) 

Because the monthly price is a complete rort.

[PaulRB 6,411]

I have to say that I've used the shift of footy to Foxtel, to watch less footy and do other stuff with my time.

I watch Melbourne games live or on Foxtel at the pub. Otherwise I rarely watch other teams play footy.

[daisycutter 29,743]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Because the monthly price is a complete rort.

that may be, but whatever, the higher speeds wiil (should) always be dearer than the lower tiers, and many people will decide with their hip pocket

in 10 years time......who knows.....but expect prices to reduce, although the nbnco would still have to try and recoup their investment costs which were initially grossly under-quoted and are more likely to continue to increase. but hey, it's only our money, right?

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

I got FTTP in my new place as the estate began construction under the new regime.

I can confirm that I almost never watch free to air tv any more.

I have Netflix and Catch-up TV services, of which iView is clearly the best (even if it's not always the best quality).

My process goes like this:

- Decide what to watch.

- If it's on Netflix or Catch-up, I watch it.

- If it's not, go to usenet.

This process has one flaw and that is live sport. If I want to watch a live Melbourne game, I'm forced to use the AFL Live app and chromecast it. Because it's only a 'mobile' stream, I can't cast it to my 70 inch TV in the bedroom without a huge loss in quality, so I use the 40 inch in my bedroom. It's not ideal, but it works. What shits me is that I pay for the stream, but because of [censored] broadcast deals, it's not in a format that's convenient for me. I've had to use a third party application to make it palatable.

The point is I haven't relied on a commercial broadcaster for any content in almost 2 years. I'm given to understand that reality TV is still a thing. Hilarious.

Additionally, my 4 year is does not understand the concept of 'buffering'.

FTTP NBN is GLORIOUS.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure that in the future my choice of estate will pay off in capital gains. The limited supply of FTTP will only become more valuable in the future.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Choke

[daisycutter 29,743]

Just now, Choke said:

I got FTTP in my new place as the estate began construction under the new regime.

I can confirm that I almost never watch free to air tv any more.

I have Netflix and Catch-up TV services, of which iView is clearly the best (even if it's not always the best quality).

My process goes like this:

- Decide what to watch.

- If it's on Netflix or Catch-up, I watch it.

- If it's not, go to usenet.

This process has one flaw and that is live sport. If I want to watch a live Melbourne game, I'm forced to use the AFL Live app and chromecast it. Because it's only a 'mobile' stream, I can't cast it to my 70 inch TV in the bedroom without a huge loss in quality, so I use the 40 inch in my bedroom. It's not ideal, but it works. What shits me is that I pay for the stream, but because of [censored] broadcast deals, it's not in a format that's convenient for me. I've had to use a third party application to make it palatable.

The point is I haven't relied on a commercial broadcaster for any content in almost 2 years. I'm given to understand that reality TV is still a thing. Hilarious.

Additionally, my 4 year is does not understand the concept of 'buffering'.

FTTP NBN is GLORIOUS.

of course, fttp is the rolls royce if you can afford the top tiers

btw which tier did you take and what do you pay your provider per month (not counting add-ons like netflix etc)?

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

13 minutes ago, Choke said:

Additionally, my 4 year is does not understand the concept of 'buffering

I cant wait for the day buffering becomes a distant memory 

[jnrmac 20,189]

29 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Because the monthly price is a complete rort.

Exactly. When 20yo's get asked if they want the fastest internet they all say yes. But no-one wants to pay up for it. 

It's not free and in fact is ridiculously expensive. Need to get a return on the $70b that it is costing us.

It is the biggest white elephant this country has ever built - except of course for Canberra.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

25 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

of course, fttp is the rolls royce if you can afford the top tiers

btw which tier did you take and what do you pay your provider per month (not counting add-ons like netflix etc)?

500 gb p/m plan with Internode, $95 p/m. Advertised speed was 100mbps download, 40 mbps upload. I am reliably getting 95 mbps download speeds, so I'm very happy that the reality reflects the advertising. My old ADSL plan was $75 per month. $20 per month for these sorts of speeds is well worth it.

Netflix is unmetered on Internode, so no Netflix content (all delivered without buffering in glorious full HD to multiple devices simultaneously btw) counts toward my 500 gb cap.

Link to plan here:

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/broadband/nbn/

Netflix is $15 per month, and with a household of 4 it's a bargain. It's on all the TVs, computers, 2 tablets and 3 phones. Yes we have more devices than people, but that's what happens when you get a free upgrade every 18 months

AFL app is comparatively expensive. The AFL live pass is $90 per annum. Since it's only used for 9 months of the year, that's $10 per month for 2 hours of content I watch per week. Compare that with Netflix's $15 per month for basically everything I watch, it's pricey. But I pay it because it's the best way I can get AFL right now without the crazy expense of Foxtel.

I also play online games quite a lot, and the additional speed is invaluable. I won't get into the advantages of low pings in multilayer games (especially being an Aussie), but to give you a simple example from last night; I went to play a game I play often and found that a patch (installed that morning) had corrupted my install. The best solution was to uninstall and reinstall the game, which involved a 9 gb download (the entire game again). If this had happened on ADSL, I would have set the download overnight and played the next day. On FTTP, I was playing the game 15 minutes later.

 

[old dee 23,872]

52 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

I have to say that I've used the shift of footy to Foxtel, to watch less footy and do other stuff with my time.

I watch Melbourne games live or on Foxtel at the pub. Otherwise I rarely watch other teams play footy.

Me too Paul I have a couple of other reasons as well but similar result.

[No10 461]

16 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Exactly. When 20yo's get asked if they want the fastest internet they all say yes. But no-one wants to pay up for it. 

It's not free and in fact is ridiculously expensive. Need to get a return on the $70b that it is costing us.

It is the biggest white elephant this country has ever built - except of course for Canberra.

It's certainly an incredibly expensive elephant, unsure it will be entirely white.

Artificial, in terms of political influence on football distribution, you'd be more relevant to look at anti-siphoning.   The nbn is an expensive concept for the purpose of sport broadcasting.   The more deregulation, the more the rights will be split into packages, that less people will access, it's an unfortunate problem.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

40 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Exactly. When 20yo's get asked if they want the fastest internet they all say yes. But no-one wants to pay up for it. 

It's not free and in fact is ridiculously expensive. Need to get a return on the $70b that it is costing us.

It is the biggest white elephant this country has ever built - except of course for Canberra.

As stated above, I am more than happy to pay.

I'm 31, and was 29 when I first got NBN, if that means anything to your generalisations.

Edit: And yes I signed up for the top tier of speeds.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Choke

[daisycutter 29,743]

17 minutes ago, Choke said:

500 gb p/m plan with Internode, $95 p/m. Advertised speed was 100mbps download, 40 mbps upload. I am reliably getting 95 mbps download speeds, so I'm very happy that the reality reflects the advertising. My old ADSL plan was $75 per month. $20 per month for these sorts of speeds is well worth it.

Netflix is unmetered on Internode, so no Netflix content (all delivered without buffering in glorious full HD to multiple devices simultaneously btw) counts toward my 500 gb cap.

Link to plan here:

http://www.internode.on.net/residential/broadband/nbn/

Netflix is $15 per month, and with a household of 4 it's a bargain. It's on all the TVs, computers, 2 tablets and 3 phones. Yes we have more devices than people, but that's what happens when you get a free upgrade every 18 months

AFL app is comparatively expensive. The AFL live pass is $90 per annum. Since it's only used for 9 months of the year, that's $10 per month for 2 hours of content I watch per week. Compare that with Netflix's $15 per month for basically everything I watch, it's pricey. But I pay it because it's the best way I can get AFL right now without the crazy expense of Foxtel.

I also play online games quite a lot, and the additional speed is invaluable. I won't get into the advantages of low pings in multilayer games (especially being an Aussie), but to give you a simple example from last night; I went to play a game I play often and found that a patch (installed that morning) had corrupted my install. The best solution was to uninstall and reinstall the game, which involved a 9 gb download (the entire game again). If this had happened on ADSL, I would have set the download overnight and played the next day. On FTTP, I was playing the game 15 minutes later.

 

thanks choke.

have you exceeded your 500gb in a month yet? with all your concurrent streaming looks like you could exceed quota

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

thanks choke.

have you exceeded your 500gb in a month yet? with all your concurrent streaming looks like you could exceed quota

Never.

Netflix does not count towards my quota, and I'd say 80% of my streaming comes from there. All full HD, all the time.

Kids as well. My son was ecstatic yesterday when the new pokemon movie came up as a suggestion on his list.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

 

3 minutes ago, No10 said:

It's certainly an incredibly expensive elephant, unsure it will be entirely white.

Artificial, in terms of political influence on football distribution, you'd be more relevant to look at anti-siphoning.   The nbn is an expensive concept for the purpose of sport broadcasting.   The more deregulation, the more the rights will be split into packages, that less people will access, it's an unfortunate problem.

Yeah I'll conceded im just being greedy and selfish but its frustrating knowing what this country is capable of vs what they are. My roomate and I are both very heavy internet users which doesnt help my perception. We have 8Mb/s and it is not nearly enough for the 2 of us. But once It becomes practical I expect to completely remove the need for a TV, Other than as a large overpriced monitor. As choke alluded to, nearly everything is available online. Sports streaming is the last step.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

1 hour ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

 

Yeah I'll conceded im just being greedy and selfish but its frustrating knowing what this country is capable of vs what they are. My roomate and I are both very heavy internet users which doesnt help my perception. We have 8Mb/s and it is not nearly enough for the 2 of us. But once It becomes practical I expect to completely remove the need for a TV, Other than as a large overpriced monitor. As choke alluded to, nearly everything is available online. Sports streaming is the last step.

Yep, it's the last basion of the old world strangle hold on video content.

But even there the grip is loosening. Despite the AFL app specifically not integrating with chromecast (like almost every other video streaming app does, not hard to see why), you can still use the third party chromecast app to watch the stream on a TV.

To give you guys an idea of how outdated FTA TV feels to me, the actual TV station in our house has not changed from ABC for kids in months, maybe longer. The TV did it's auto tuning thing during set up and screwed all the channel labels, but it doesn't matter because we don't use them. Haven't bothered to fix it. The TV runs all my streaming apps, and my WD TV Live unit streams my, uh, 'other', content.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,309]

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Exactly. When 20yo's get asked if they want the fastest internet they all say yes. But no-one wants to pay up for it. 

It's not free and in fact is ridiculously expensive. Need to get a return on the $70b that it is costing us.

It is the biggest white elephant this country has ever built - except of course for Canberra.

It's infrastructure- that's why we (some of us) pay taxes. To build the nation's infrastructure. 

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

13 minutes ago, Choke said:

Yep, it's the last basion of the old world strangle hold on video content.

But even there the grip is loosening. Despite the AFL app specifically not integrating with chromecast (like almost every other video streaming app does, not hard to see why), you can still use the third party chromecast app to watch the stream on a TV.

To give you guys an idea of how outdated FTA TV feels to me, the actual TV station in our house has not changed from ABC for kids in months, maybe longer. The TV did it's auto tuning thing during set up and screwed all the channel labels, but it doesn't matter because we don't use them. Haven't bothered to fix it. The TV runs all my streaming apps, and my WD TV Live unit streams my, uh, 'other', content.

yeah I use the chromecast as well. It does bug me that they wont cave and add intergration but its not coming any time soon.

hahaha my TV just stays on 7HD and gets turned on every friday and saturday night, other than that it gathers dust.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

 

18 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's infrastructure- that's why we (some of us) pay taxes. To build the nation's infrastructure. 

Correct.

It's a massive infrastructure project, and as someone who benefits from it daily, I struggle to understand why it was watered down.

And then I remember politicians were involved.

More than happy to pay taxes for infrastructure.

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Exactly. When 20yo's get asked if they want the fastest internet they all say yes. But no-one wants to pay up for it. 

It's not free and in fact is ridiculously expensive. Need to get a return on the $70b that it is costing us.

It is the biggest white elephant this country has ever built - except of course for Canberra.

JNR, if you want a return on investment, I'll give you some examples:

- People in regional areas can get remote surgery, something that's not possible without fast internet, instead of wasting days driving into the city to see specialists. Virtual presence is in its infancy. Remote surgery is just one tangible example.

- As traffic due to poor urban planning (and other poor infrastructure like roads/rail) increase, telecommuting becomes vital. The faster the connection, the more jobs can be done off site. The reduction in traffic alone could make FTTP NBN worthwhile if enough businesses thought of ways to use it, let alone positive mental health outcomes for being able to remove a long commute, or physical health outcomes for not being stuck in a car for 2 hours a day.

- Global information sharing for learning institutions is greatly facilitated by being able to move huge amounts of data between different campuses (or indeed institutions). No wait times, just access what is needed.

- Faster internet gives rise to new businesses for content creation. There's no way Netflix could exist without fast internet, and they make some of the best content going around, as well as being a content aggregator. Personally, I'm loving not being forced to watch ads for products I don't want, during shows on at a time that's inconvenient to me. Also, Rupert loses, which is a big plus for me.

- Faster internet allows for greater scale in cloud processing, which is already being used to look for a cure for cancer. The more people who have faster connections, the more 'idle' computers can be connected to the network to crunch huge problems.

You have to understand the scale of the speeds we are talking. It's near instantaneous transfers of huge amounts of information, and because it's fibre, it's scalable. It CAN GET FASTER.

The watering down of the NBN will be seen as one of the biggest infrastructure blunders this country has ever made.

[jnrmac 20,189]

16 minutes ago, Choke said:

 

Correct.

It's a massive infrastructure project, and as someone who benefits from it daily, I struggle to understand why it was watered down.

And then I remember politicians were involved.

More than happy to pay taxes for infrastructure.

JNR, if you want a return on investment, I'll give you some examples:

- People in regional areas can get remote surgery, something that's not possible without fast internet, instead of wasting days driving into the city to see specialists. Virtual presence is in its infancy. Remote surgery is just one tangible example.

- As traffic due to poor urban planning (and other poor infrastructure like roads/rail) increase, telecommuting becomes vital. The faster the connection, the more jobs can be done off site. The reduction in traffic alone could make FTTP NBN worthwhile if enough businesses thought of ways to use it, let alone positive mental health outcomes for being able to remove a long commute, or physical health outcomes for not being stuck in a car for 2 hours a day.

- Global information sharing for learning institutions is greatly facilitated by being able to move huge amounts of data between different campuses (or indeed institutions). No wait times, just access what is needed.

- Faster internet gives rise to new businesses for content creation. There's no way Netflix could exist without fast internet, and they make some of the best content going around, as well as being a content aggregator. Personally, I'm loving not being forced to watch ads for products I don't want, during shows on at a time that's inconvenient to me. Also, Rupert loses, which is a big plus for me.

- Faster internet allows for greater scale in cloud processing, which is already being used to look for a cure for cancer. The more people who have faster connections, the more 'idle' computers can be connected to the network to crunch huge problems.

You have to understand the scale of the speeds we are talking. It's near instantaneous transfers of huge amounts of information, and because it's fibre, it's scalable. It CAN GET FASTER.

The watering down of the NBN will be seen as one of the biggest infrastructure blunders this country has ever made.

Respectfully disagree. Building it in the first place was ridiculous. Paying Telstra $12bn to shut down the copper network was ridiculous. We waste money like nobody else. 

Could have built 35 new hospitals.

[old dee 23,872]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

Respectfully disagree. Building it in the first place was ridiculous. Paying Telstra $12bn to shut down the copper network was ridiculous. We waste money like nobody else. 

Could have built 35 new hospitals.

Or staffed the ones we have properly

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

6 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Respectfully disagree. Building it in the first place was ridiculous. Paying Telstra $12bn to shut down the copper network was ridiculous. We waste money like nobody else. 

Could have built 35 new hospitals.

Did you not read the bit about remote surgery?

Plus, if you compare building something to building a hospital, you'll never build anything else.

[BAMF 4,387]

8 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Why not? there wasnt anything about telstra locking was there? they just run it.. which is why it's such poor quality, same with the afl website... and app and pretty much anything on the internet with AFL branding

Hmmm... looks like I was misled. This article is where I got my information from and they have clearly edited it at the bottom.

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/computers/gadgets-on-the-go/foxtel-and-telstra-still-have-footy-fans-by-the-balls-20150819-gj2f76.html

No Foxtel for me! Yay! although I would love to pay AFL directly and stream it through my TV.

[praha 11,240]

I use a VPN to geoblock and access watchafl.afl.com.au. Pay with my Aussie credit card and stream all games in decent quality, and hook it up to my television.

International viewers have better streaming options and quality than we do in Australia. The fact the AFL YouTube channel, which is run by Telstra, is only at 360p max is comical.

1 hour ago, Choke said:

 

Correct.

It's a massive infrastructure project, and as someone who benefits from it daily, I struggle to understand why it was watered down.

And then I remember politicians were involved.

More than happy to pay taxes for infrastructure.

JNR, if you want a return on investment, I'll give you some examples:

- People in regional areas can get remote surgery, something that's not possible without fast internet, instead of wasting days driving into the city to see specialists. Virtual presence is in its infancy. Remote surgery is just one tangible example.

- As traffic due to poor urban planning (and other poor infrastructure like roads/rail) increase, telecommuting becomes vital. The faster the connection, the more jobs can be done off site. The reduction in traffic alone could make FTTP NBN worthwhile if enough businesses thought of ways to use it, let alone positive mental health outcomes for being able to remove a long commute, or physical health outcomes for not being stuck in a car for 2 hours a day.

- Global information sharing for learning institutions is greatly facilitated by being able to move huge amounts of data between different campuses (or indeed institutions). No wait times, just access what is needed.

- Faster internet gives rise to new businesses for content creation. There's no way Netflix could exist without fast internet, and they make some of the best content going around, as well as being a content aggregator. Personally, I'm loving not being forced to watch ads for products I don't want, during shows on at a time that's inconvenient to me. Also, Rupert loses, which is a big plus for me.

- Faster internet allows for greater scale in cloud processing, which is already being used to look for a cure for cancer. The more people who have faster connections, the more 'idle' computers can be connected to the network to crunch huge problems.

You have to understand the scale of the speeds we are talking. It's near instantaneous transfers of huge amounts of information, and because it's fibre, it's scalable. It CAN GET FASTER.

The watering down of the NBN will be seen as one of the biggest infrastructure blunders this country has ever made.

The NBN project from the start was a disaster. We won't know how it would have ended under Labor, but they blatantly lied about rollout dates close to the 2013 election to get votes, and blatantly lied about the sort of revenue the network would generate. Federal funding was going to end sooner rather than later irrespective of who was in power and the NBN was always going to need to generate private sector funding.

It is one of the most poorly conceived infrastructure projects in our history. Labor's original plan to tender out FTTN to the private sector was the right one. Public companies are only accountable to politicians. The ACCC said Labor couldn't do that, which was a moronic choice.

It was an economic, technological disaster from the start. 

[sue 9,145]

5 hours ago, daisycutter said:

i know it was your last post on this matter but you are quite wrong

FTTN is NOT more or less what we had (adsl) and it is NOT by any stretch limited to only 24mb/s. It is FAR superior to adsl in performance.

jnr is also right when he states that with the existing FTTP connections VERY FEW customers are signing up for the highest speeds. ie they are signing up for lower speeds (mainly but not not only because they do not want to pay the higher charges for the top tiers) 

True, but in Canberra we have had FTTN for  years and while better than ADSL it is a road to nowhere with extra points of failure.  It had the 'advantage' of frying several bits of equipment in our house when there was lightning nearby - would never happen with FTTP. 

[daisycutter 29,743]

40 minutes ago, sue said:

True, but in Canberra we have had FTTN for  years and while better than ADSL it is a road to nowhere with extra points of failure.  It had the 'advantage' of frying several bits of equipment in our house when there was lightning nearby - would never happen with FTTP. 

i wouldn't assume the fttn used in canberra years again to be the same as that rolled out tomorrow. anyway, from what i see they plan to use more of the hfc nodes with coax  than fttn with short haul copper. the technology of the various components is changing as the rollout continues