On 1/21/2016 at 7:31 AM, Barney Rubble said:

Tyson will be starting 18

 

It doesn't really matter if he is starting 18 or not. 

I commented over the last two years that whether Tyson is in the starting 18 or named as interchange, he started most games on the bench and came on the ground first rotation after about 3-4 minutes.  With quick rotations and so many running through the midfield you will always find a mid that we consider quality sitting on the bench for the first bounce. 

On 14/02/2016 at 5:54 PM, picket fence said:

B  JETTA   DUNN  GARLAND

HB  SALEM  MC DONALD  BUGG

C  VINCE  VINEY  VAN DER THING

HF KENT  FROST  PETRACCA

F GARLETT  HOGAN  WATTS

RUCK/ MIDS  GAWN JONES TYSON 

INTER   BRAYSHAW,  OLIVER, KENNEDY , PEDERSON

EMERG. STRETCH , ANB, HARMES

nice work pick'

On 14/02/2016 at 10:13 PM, chook fowler said:

Would be very surprised if Stretch is not playing round 1

I wonder if Oliver will get a few games at least in the KC-dee side as he builds his body.    because of the special training he's receiving,  I think he'll be a little bit off & won't be rushed,  as we sort thru our mature mids.

FB article Roos was quoted as saying "we want to field a competitive side...." 

He needs to be held to that, there's a difference between being outplayed/having a bad game and being non competitive. One poor showing and the offending to be dropped the following round, time to set the precedent.

41 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

FB article Roos was quoted as saying "we want to field a competitive side...." 

He needs to be held to that, there's a difference between being outplayed/having a bad game and being non competitive. One poor showing and the offending to be dropped the following round, time to set the precedent.

Effort is inexcusable so you can drop a guy for poor effort, can't drop a good player for a poor game though, you'll never develop a consistent team doing that. 

The problem with determining poor effort is that besides using the GPS numbers it's hard to gauge who was and wasn't putting in during a really bad team effort. Particularly these days when being competitive relies upon an attacking mindset and skills under pressure. 

Sydney Swans 2005 era effort was easy. Chase, pressure, tackle, wait until Goodes or Kennelly etc opened the game up with brilliance, then Hall and Mickey O finished it off. This current Melbourne side relies on everyone being brave and skillful to create good ball movement. If we have days when we just sit back and can't attack or can't win the footy it's hard to blame individuals.

5 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'm opting to go with Hulett as I've seen enough of Pedo to know he doesn't do it for me. He seems to always come back to pre-season with a winter coat which says to me he doesn't work hard enough. He provides little to no defensive pressure partly because he isn't fit or fast enough. His marking and goal kicking ability on game-day can be anywhere from non-existent to really good. Inconsistency is a big issue for him but we'll see what happens over the NAB challenge.

I think having Frost and Gawn rotating makes sense. But it also makes sense for Gawn to get rest on the pine if we want to look after the big fella. This is his first un-interrupted pre-season and if we want to see a consistent year from him, he'll need more than forward-line breaks.

Which is why I think it's important we have another KPP playing forward and who can also go back if need be. Someone who can take a contested mark. I understand Watts will be down there, but he doesn't play tall and doesn't take pack marks. 

From what I've seen from Hulett I'm not convinced he'll run around better than Pedersen at this stage. He's 18 and didn't come off a full base before being drafted. I'd put Pedersen in the ruck against the right match up and leave Frost chasing around forward.

Or I'd do what is probably going to happen and hope Watts, Vanders and Petracca can out mark their opponents and that our ball movement is quick enough that we don't need tall forwards. 

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

It doesn't really matter if he is starting 18 or not. 

I commented over the last two years that whether Tyson is in the starting 18 or named as interchange, he started most games on the bench and came on the ground first rotation after about 3-4 minutes.  With quick rotations and so many running through the midfield you will always find a mid that we consider quality sitting on the bench for the first bounce. 

yep. we need to stop talking of best 18, starting 18,  bench player etc. it's meaningless.  it should just be starting/best 22. full stop 

42 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Effort is inexcusable so you can drop a guy for poor effort, can't drop a good player for a poor game though, you'll never develop a consistent team doing that. 

The problem with determining poor effort is that besides using the GPS numbers it's hard to gauge who was and wasn't putting in during a really bad team effort. Particularly these days when being competitive relies upon an attacking mindset and skills under pressure. 

Sydney Swans 2005 era effort was easy. Chase, pressure, tackle, wait until Goodes or Kennelly etc opened the game up with brilliance, then Hall and Mickey O finished it off. This current Melbourne side relies on everyone being brave and skillful to create good ball movement. If we have days when we just sit back and can't attack or can't win the footy it's hard to blame individuals.

It is pretty simple - you just have to watch.

When the team has red hot go for 4 quarters it rarely loses. Effort for 4 quarters is the difficult part. How often last year did you hear Roos (and for that matter most coaches over time) say - we played really well for 3 quarters but our we dropped off in the XX quarter and it hurt us.

So Roos has said he wants a team of competitors - Ill go one further and say I want a team of competitors who will compete for 4 quarters. Its a big wish but that should be the aim. 4 quarter effort results in wins.

I'd like to see:

 

B               Jetta             Dunn             Garland

HB             White         McDonald         Stretch

C               Salem          Jones              Vince

HF              Kent            Hogan           vandenBerg

F                Frost             Watts            Garlett 

Foll:           Gawn           Tyson             Viney

Int:          Brayshaw  -  Trengove  -  Petracca  - B/W: Grimes / Kennedy / ANB     

On 18 February 2016 at 4:44 PM, nutbean said:

So Roos has said he wants a team of competitors - Ill go one further and say I want a team of competitors who will compete for 4 quarters. Its a big wish but that should be the aim. 4 quarter effort results in wins.

Agree 100% - if I were to make a banner to wave with the Demon Army, it would say "120 minutes of effort"

JETTA DUNN GARLAND

SALEM TMAC WAGNER

VINCE VINEY STRETCH

VB FROST KENT

WATTS HOGAN GARLETT

GAWN JONES TYSON

ANGUS KENNEDY PETRACCA PEDO

 

HARMES/OLIVER

I honestly can't see how Grimes gets a game on the wing or half forward. The first hint of Watts not wanting to compete he needs to be dropped and PEDO takes his spot and play another mid on the bench. Trengove needs to get through a few Casey games and play well before he can be considered. There is enough experience in the back line to play a Wagner/White plus there's a need. Still 12-24 months away from real depth. Minimal injuries a must.

Just now, Bombay Airconditioning said:

JETTA DUNN GARLAND

SALEM TMAC WAGNER

VINCE VINEY STRETCH

VB FROST KENT

WATTS HOGAN GARLETT

GAWN JONES TYSON

ANGUS KENNEDY PETRACCA PEDO

 

HARMES/OLIVER

I honestly can't see how Grimes gets a game on the wing or half forward. The first hint of Watts not wanting to compete he needs to be dropped and PEDO takes his spot and play another mid on the bench. Trengove needs to get through a few Casey games and play well before he can be considered. There is enough experience in the back line to play a Wagner/White plus there's a need. Still 12-24 months away from real depth. Minimal injuries a must.

You won't agree, and you'll ask me to elaborate, but Grimes will get a game ahead of Stretch for the time being.  

Wagner has yet to be promoted either and, while I understand why people are taken with him, he won't get a game either until he plays some very good football in the NAB Cup (providing we give him a game).

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You won't agree, and you'll ask me to elaborate, but Grimes will get a game ahead of Stretch for the time being.  

Wagner has yet to be promoted either and, while I understand why people are taken with him, he won't get a game either until he plays some very good football in the NAB Cup (providing we give him a game).

Who's play half back flank then assuming H is still injured? The club has identified the need for more drive off half back, hence the Melksham recruitment. 

Take Stretch out of the side and put Angus on the wing, or VB to the wing and Kenbedy to half forward, then there's a number of options to move on to the bench before Grimes. 

I've got a theory and many will laugh, this is Grimes last year and the club is trying to handle his departure with tact. The announcement of his positional change has only just come about, surely if he's training so well and his disposal has improved (depending on who's reports you choose to believe) why wouldn't he slot straight into the other back flank considering our circumstances? a position he's played for most of his career. There are a number of more talented players that are in front of him for any midfield or half forward spot. Wiseblood I simply don't get it, I honestly think Goodwin has his papers stamped, and barring a run of injuries he will get told every week that he needs to continue to work on a certain aspect of his game. 

 

Just now, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Who's play half back flank then assuming H is still injured?

 

Grimes.  I know they speak of this 'positional change' but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see him line up across half back to begin the season.

17 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Grimes.  I know they speak of this 'positional change' but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see him line up across half back to begin the season.

Based on what I've seen at training and the mini intra last week and then Friday's proper intraclub, there seems little chance Grimes will slot in at half-back - although I had hoped he'd be given a shot at the Crossy-style defensive sweeper role.

But what we are seeing is that Goodwin appears to have had his way in wanting more run from defence and that means sacrificing someone back there and it won't be Salem and based on his form on Friday, it won't be Jetta either, nor will it be a T-Mac, Dunn or Garland.

The player who seems most likely to replace H, at least certainly this week, and then we'll see if he's physical enough, is Hunt. Terlich, when fit, is also a chance to play this role because both have pace and provided they can find targets (dubious I know) then they will be given a shot before Grimes it seems.

FB: Garland Dunn Jetta 

HB: Salem  McDonald  Wagner

C: Grimes  Jones  Stretch

HF: Vanders  Watts  Brayshaw

FF: Garlett  Hogan   Kent

Foll:  Gawn  Viney  Tyson

Int: Frost Vince Kennedy Bugg

Emer: Oliver Pedersen Harmes

Unlucky: Petracca, Lumumba, White, ANB, Hunt, Michie

GWS are going to have running machines in Scully, Whitfield, Kelly etc on the wing, so let's get both Grimes and Stretch on either wing and let them do what they do best and run. If we want to move the ball quickly we need fit blokes on the outside who can cover the ground. Don't worry about how many times they get the ball or even really what they do with it. Just covering the ground will make the team better. 

Pick your best 6 defenders. Pick your best 4 forwards. Fill the rest of the side with midfield rotations to work around them. 

Just now, Deespicable said:

Based on what I've seen at training and the mini intra last week and then Friday's proper intraclub, there seems little chance Grimes will slot in at half-back - although I had hoped he'd be given a shot at the Crossy-style defensive sweeper role.

But what we are seeing is that Goodwin appears to have had his way in wanting more run from defence and that means sacrificing someone back there and it won't be Salem and based on his form on Friday, it won't be Jetta either, nor will it be a T-Mac, Dunn or Garland.

The player who seems most likely to replace H, at least certainly this week, and then we'll see if he's physical enough, is Hunt. Terlich, when fit, is also a chance to play this role because both have pace and provided they can find targets (dubious I know) then they will be given a shot before Grimes it seems.

Thanks for the follow up Deespicable.  Appreciate the info regarding Grimes and where they have been trialling him in the pre-season.

I guess my belief on Grimes slotting in there, at least to begin the season, is based on the fact that we are beginning to really push for more wins.  The pressure is certainly on and guys like Hunt, Wagner, White etc don't exactly fill me with confidence yet.  In time I think they could be good players, but Grimes brings a calm head and plenty of experience to help us kick off the year.  

I'm happy to back the club though - if they pick Hunt to play there in Round 1 then I'll be comfortable with that decision.

Further to this, my expected team for this Saturday v Port - subject to injuries this week and assumes Vince or Terlich are not rushed back and Spencer is rested.

Note: we can play 26.

B: Jetta Dunn Garland

HB: Hunt T-Mac Salem

C: Brayshaw N.Jones Bugg

HF: Kent Frost VB

F: Garlett Hogan Harmes

Ru: Gawn Tyson Viney

Int: Watts, M.Jones, O-Mac, Pedo, Grimes, Stretch, Kennedy, Wagner

Emerg (from): Neal-Bullen, Michie, Oliver (love him to play, but expect they won't rush him, but will take him for the trip)

Unavailable: Harry O, Dawes, Trenners, Spencer, Vince, Terlich, White, Max King, JKH, Newton, Petracca, (Melky)

Not ready: Mitch King, Hulett, Weed

 

 

32 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Thanks for the follow up Deespicable.  Appreciate the info regarding Grimes and where they have been trialling him in the pre-season.

I guess my belief on Grimes slotting in there, at least to begin the season, is based on the fact that we are beginning to really push for more wins.  The pressure is certainly on and guys like Hunt, Wagner, White etc don't exactly fill me with confidence yet.  In time I think they could be good players, but Grimes brings a calm head and plenty of experience to help us kick off the year.  

I'm happy to back the club though - if they pick Hunt to play there in Round 1 then I'll be comfortable with that decision.

Can you provide a list of all the players that you believe that Grimes is ahead of in terms of getting a game.

 

 

 

Just now, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Can you provide a list of all the players that you believe that Grimes is ahead of in terms of getting a game.

Sure, and keep in mind that while Grimes may not necessarily be training there at the minute, he has played the majority of his career there and can easily be placed there for the time being without any trouble.

Of those mentioned, I believe he is ahead of Hunt, Wagner and White.  Both White and Wagner have yet to be promoted (that's not to say they won't), and while it sounds like Hunt did some good things in the intra club he is still very raw and will need to prove himself against actual opposition before I believe the club will place their faith in him to begin the season.

In my opinion we have an excellent chance of winning our first 2 games, and at the present time Grimes brings more to the table than those I've mentioned.

I've been surprised by Grimes playing an outside mid role and even more surprised that he's actually looked good.

He's just outside best 22 for me, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's selected round 1.

But I am sure he won't be playing half-back.  You don't train the entire summer in the midfield and then abandon that role for round one on a needs basis.  Hunt, White, and Wagner have all looked good across HBF.  And I reckon they'd even give Terlich a run there ahead of Grimes.

First attempt at a Round 1 team for a while

FB Jetta Dunn Garland

HB Salem TMac Hunt

C Grimes Vince Kennedy

HF Kent Hogan Vandenberg 

FF Watts Frost Garlett

R Gawn Jones Viney

INT Tyson Brayshaw Petracca Pederson

EMG Oliver Bugg Stretch

Im backing Hunt to get a gig round 1 after what I've seen and heard about him this pre-season. Seems to have come out of nowhere. 

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I've been surprised by Grimes playing an outside mid role and even more surprised that he's actually looked good.

He's just outside best 22 for me, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's selected round 1.

But I am sure he won't be playing half-back.  You don't train the entire summer in the midfield and then abandon that role for round one on a needs basis.  Hunt, White, and Wagner have all looked good across HBF.  And I reckon they'd even give Terlich a run there ahead of Grimes.

I noticed you left him out of your Intra club report, how was his kicking and did he look like he was lost at any stage?

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

Sure, and keep in mind that while Grimes may not necessarily be training there at the minute, he has played the majority of his career there and can easily be placed there for the time being without any trouble.

Of those mentioned, I believe he is ahead of Hunt, Wagner and White.  Both White and Wagner have yet to be promoted (that's not to say they won't), and while it sounds like Hunt did some good things in the intra club he is still very raw and will need to prove himself against actual opposition before I believe the club will place their faith in him to begin the season.

In my opinion we have an excellent chance of winning our first 2 games, and at the present time Grimes brings more to the table than those I've mentioned.

I meant the team as a whole, last night you had him ahead of Stretch as well.

What is it that he brings to the table? The defensive side to someone's game should be a given, everyone can chase and tackle, whether they do it or not is a different story. If you look at the best sides their mids/flankers can use the footy and more often than not make the right decision, they are two areas Grimes has struggled with. Some training reports have him using the footy better but it's still yet to be seen against real opposition so I don't see how he's so far ahead of so many other relatively untried players. As I mentioned in the NAB  challenge thread, the Intra club game as well as the next 3 weeks and really important for a few of our players, none more than Grimes, there are a number of players that need to impress. 

Grimes

Bugg

Kennedy

JKH

Stretch

ANB

Harmes

Oliver

Michie

Newton

Wagner 

White

Hunt

For me that's 13 players (maybe 12 depending on who gets upgraded) vying for 2-3 spots in the round 1 team allowing for no new injuries. 4 depending on Petracca who will come straight in when fit and The Prince who has one of Currys golden tickets.

1 halfback, 1 wing and 1 mid on the bench.

Is H going to be ready for a HBF round 1?

From what I read Hunt and Wagner are pressing hard for this spot.  

Anyone who has seen it all care to comment on this particular spot?

7 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I noticed you left him out of your Intra club report, how was his kicking and did he look like he was lost at any stage?

You know the shocking turnovers and poor decisions he makes at HB when he has time to think ?  I haven't noticed them in MS or the intraclub when he was on the wing/outside.

I can't say that he hasn't turned it over, but he's found plenty of it, used it well (from memory) and shown a bit of toe.

That said, if I named a preferred 22 he wouldn't be in it.  But I wouldn't be surprised if he was named come round one.  With a few others he's pushing hard.