Apologies to monocular who quickly hit the nail on the head.          

Absolutely correct 

2 hours ago, mo64 said:

Are you serious or just taking the pizz?

There was nothing in his highlights reel that screamed "elite skills". That's why I'm asking the track watchers whether they've seen signs of elite talent. Adding muscle doesn't change natural talent. If he's elite like Selwood, Wines and many more, he'd be pushing for selection in round 1, but not necessarily as a primary mid.

The 'elite' part for me, and of course this is based on YouTube, is that Oliver own a 'stopwatch'. He presses it and the world stops and he finds a way to dispose of it effectively. Decision making is brilliant. I back this up with the way his teammates ran on the outside when he's in the contest, they expected him to win and use it to advantage.

4 hours ago, thesleepinggiant said:

Thread gone a bit cringe worthy while reading so lets make it very clear...          Oliver will be a gun and incomparable to any past or present player. Look simply at not just what he achieved in last 12 mths but how he achieved it completely modest and level headed. Spent this summer disciplined, trained, earnt massive raps, lost excess weight and now only needs muscle. Im as guilty as the next for highlight reels but his underage footage is extraordinary by way of influence/complete domination. We have some serious talent on our list atm however apart from the second coming  (HOGAN), its Oliver who will bring the Brownlow by simply dominating games by foot and having rare commodity of being ahead with decision making. Super talent and apologies to Clayton for any added pressure as only a kid....but 

wow

6 hours ago, mo64 said:

Are you serious or just taking the pizz?

There was nothing in his highlights reel that screamed "elite skills". That's why I'm asking the track watchers whether they've seen signs of elite talent. Adding muscle doesn't change natural talent. If he's elite like Selwood, Wines and many more, he'd be pushing for selection in round 1, but not necessarily as a primary mid.

 

Ill bet nothing in Wines or Selwoods under 18's highlights screamed 'elite skills' either.

Oliver looked amazing in his highlights package. A kid that size, who finds time and space and with elite lateral movement and speed off the mark, loves to push forward and kick goals, great mark of the footy....  salivating.

What I like about him is that he seems the type of player that would crawl across broken glass to get the footy, and he seems to have great awareness to know when he has time to dance around players to get a better disposal off and when he needs to get rid of it quickly. He also won't shirk any contests, which will make others around him walk taller. 

Roos has asked for a team of competitors, Oliver screams this. That said, first year player, he should be cherry on top instead of expected to tear through opponents. That's what Roos has built the last couple of years, so let's just sit back and let him develop. 

21 hours ago, ILLDieADemon said:

We don't want our first year players jumping straight into the middle from round one. Finally we are good enough to give our first year mids time to develop in the VFL. 

Sheeit I do! I want him to force his way into this team round 1 and sweep all before him!

We haven't had a young high draft pick in years who comes straight into the team and tears the opposition a new one!

Very welcome to the Club Clayton Oliver!!

14 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Sheeit I do! I want him to force his way into this team round 1 and sweep all before him!

We haven't had a young high draft pick in years who comes straight into the team and tears the opposition a new one!

Very welcome to the Club Clayton Oliver!!

Hogan

27 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Sheeit I do! I want him to force his way into this team round 1 and sweep all before him!

We haven't had a young high draft pick in years who comes straight into the team and tears the opposition a new one!

Very welcome to the Club Clayton Oliver!!

Like Brayshaw - he either earns a gig straight up or he doesn't. Being a first year player should not exclude you playing round one if your form warrants it. The difference now is we don't need to gift 1st year high draft pick players games just because they were high draft picks. 

11 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

 

Ill bet nothing in Wines or Selwoods under 18's highlights screamed 'elite skills' either.

Oliver looked amazing in his highlights package. A kid that size, who finds time and space and with elite lateral movement and speed off the mark, loves to push forward and kick goals, great mark of the footy....  salivating.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

17 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Like Brayshaw - he either earns a gig straight up or he doesn't. Being a first year player should not exclude you playing round one if your form warrants it. The difference now is we don't need to gift 1st year high draft pick players games just because they were high draft picks. 

You've summed it up well. But 1st year players with "elite skills" generally find a spot, even in the top teams. I question whether Oliver has elite talent. That's not to say that he won't be a very good AFL player.

Just now, mo64 said:

We'll agree to disagree.

 

You've summed it up well. But 1st year players with "elite skills" generally find a spot, even in the top teams. I question whether Oliver has elite talent. That's not to say that he won't be a very good AFL player.

Why would you question it ?  Clearly you don't know, so back the recruiters until you're in a position to make an informed assessment. 

His footy smarts in congestion look elite to me, albeit not yet exposed at AFL level. 

20 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Like Brayshaw - he either earns a gig straight up or he doesn't. Being a first year player should not exclude you playing round one if your form warrants it. The difference now is we don't need to gift 1st year high draft pick players games just because they were high draft picks. 

Which is correct and been proven over the past few years with our new management,  however if they can play and show they can handle the rigours of playing against/with seasoned bodies, let them just roster in 2-3 breaks during the season, paired with the split round to monitor this. Although Hogan played at Casey, people need to remember that he was too young by the laws (17) to play. We had no choice although nobody doubts it had a massive upside as seen with his 2015 season. Brayshaw was the next (future star) and he picked himself. I think only with recent injury Christian Petracca might start at Casey however I'll put $ where my mouth and back him in to produce in the seniors very quivkly. We've been crying out for a stable environment to teach our players and change the old fabric of the club. We are now doing this but if they turn it on from day one, let them, just manage the situation 

 

I don't really care when 'Clarry"  debuts. It doesn't matter.

My how we've come a long way 

4 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Why would you question it ?  Clearly you don't know, so back the recruiters until you're in a position to make an informed assessment. 

His footy smarts in congestion look elite to me, albeit not yet exposed at AFL level. 

My assessment is based on the same footage as you're making your assessment. In congestion he used his physical superiority to fend off players. I question whether he'll get away with it at AFL level. I thought that Parish had far superior football smarts based on the limited footage available.

I'm sure Oliver will become a very good AFL player. I just don't believe the hype that was written about him on here after the draft.

 

Long.....Long way mate

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I don't really care when 'Clarry"  debuts. It doesn't matter.

My how we've come a long way 

Very....long way mate. Apart from last year(Hogan lol) its been close to 8 odd years since I've looked forward and got excited about the weekend game. How good does it feel to actually debate spots in our side or park future stars in the twos till ready. The funny thing is this is the norm for successful clubs...and fortunately US. Apologies to mods for going off subject 

20 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Why would you question it ?  Clearly you don't know, so back the recruiters until you're in a position to make an informed assessment. 

His footy smarts in congestion look elite to me, albeit not yet exposed at AFL level. 

 

9 minutes ago, mo64 said:

My assessment is based on the same footage as you're making your assessment. In congestion he used his physical superiority to fend off players. I question whether he'll get away with it at AFL level. I thought that Parish had far superior football smarts based on the limited footage available.

I'm sure Oliver will become a very good AFL player. I just don't believe the hype that was written about him on here after the draft.

 

When I looked at some of the early footage put up I thought maybe it was his physical strength that was his advantage. I wanted to see what his peripheral vision and awareness was like

... further video showed him to also be very aware of what's around him and his decision making and ability to pick out the right option by hand was more that good, close to if not elite as 'ProDee' noted.

12 minutes ago, mo64 said:

. I just don't believe the hype that was written about him on here after the draft.

 

If the hype on here about the players we drafted in the past had become a reality we would be looking at a four-peat this year not Hawthorn. 

6 minutes ago, mo64 said:

My assessment is based on the same footage as you're making your assessment. In congestion he used his physical superiority to fend off players. I question whether he'll get away with it at AFL level. I thought that Parish had far superior football smarts based on the limited footage available.

I'm sure Oliver will become a very good AFL player. I just don't believe the hype that was written about him on here after the draft.

 

How can you not believe the hype with all the provided footage. Not having a dip at ur opinion however i think its pretty conclusive. In most clips they're not highlight which are Marks, Goals,  Biffs and Brawlers etc but instead huge parts of the game which dominate play. Yes he outmuscled underage players but HE HAS THE BODY TO COMPETE AGAINST MEN when able to step up. Most footage shows he ahead of play by the actions either he or his teammates take ie not just a handball but handballs to advantage. Only My opinion but i cant see anything else except....Star?

6 minutes ago, mo64 said:

My assessment is based on the same footage as you're making your assessment. In congestion he used his physical superiority to fend off players. I question whether he'll get away with it at AFL level. I thought that Parish had far superior football smarts based on the limited footage available.

I'm sure Oliver will become a very good AFL player. I just don't believe the hype that was written about him on here after the draft.

 

Ok here is my 'assessment'. 

Leaving Olivers strength out of it, he has the best inside awareness of any kid I have seen. He doesn't need time like most to assess the situation. He has assessed the state of play 'before' he gets the ball. This cannot be taught. (See Jimmy Toumpas). He also has lightning hands so the balls is gone 'before' opponents can dispossess him. This too cannot be taught. 

Parish' natural football nous is unquestionable. But there are 2 things that stood out to me that had me a little concerned.

1. He was pushed off the ball 'waaay' too easily. Even by opponents who were smaller and lighter than him. 

2. His ball drop was way too high. So from an AFL pressure perspective could lead to most kicks either misfiring or missing completely. 

The 2nd point 'may' be fixable but the 1st, very rarely. 

Both should have above average AFL careers but I think Oliver doesn't have any glaring deficiencies. Only upside IMHO.

18 hours ago, rjay said:

 

When I looked at some of the early footage put up I thought maybe it was his physical strength that was his advantage. I wanted to see what his peripheral vision and awareness was like

... further video showed him to also be very aware of what's around him and his decision making and ability to pick out the right option by hand was more that good, close to if not elite as 'ProDee' noted.

Just rewatched some of the early footage, and my assessment stands. I'll try and find some footage that changes my assessment.

4 minutes ago, DeeMfc said:

Ok here is my 'assessment'. 

Leaving Olivers strength out of it, he has the best inside awareness of any kid I have seen. He doesn't need time like most to assess the situation. He has assessed the state of play 'before' he gets the ball. This cannot be taught. (See Jimmy Toumpas). He also has lightning hands so the balls is gone 'before' opponents can dispossess him. This too cannot be taught. 

Parish' natural football nous is unquestionable. But there are 2 things that stood out to me that had me a little concerned.

1. He was pushed off the ball 'waaay' too easily. Even by opponents who were smaller and lighter than him. 

2. His ball drop was way too high. So from an AFL pressure perspective could lead to most kicks either misfiring or missing completely. 

The 2nd point 'may' be fixable but the 1st, very rarely. 

Both should have above average AFL careers but I think Oliver doesn't have any glaring deficiencies. Only upside IMHO.

Exactly. ..Peripheral vision, quick thinking which not only changes but inturn he dominates passages of play. Footage, footage, footage. ..its there for everyone to see and dissect. 110% conclusive and sold on 2015 #4.

I just watched all the clips again so I will give it a go.

1. reads the play extremely well - gets to where the ball is
2. Exceptional evasive skills in close - the "jink" he does is really sublime
3. Very strong through the hips so he is able to stand up in tackles. This strength more often than not allowed him to shrug tackles
4. Very strong overhead for his size
5. good decision maker but I doubt a highlight would show him constantly turning the ball over
6. His handpassing was very good - his kicking looks ugly but seemed to find its mark.
7. A positive and a negative - he likes to tackle but quite a few times he slung his opponent in the tackle and we know with slinging that it is a very fineline between ok and suspension.  

 

2 minutes ago, nutbean said:

I just watched all the clips again so I will give it a go.

1. reads the play extremely well - gets to where the ball is
2. Exceptional evasive skills in close - the "jink" he does is really sublime
3. Very strong through the hips so he is able to stand up in tackles. This strength more often than not allowed him to shrug tackles
4. Very strong overhead for his size
5. good decision maker but I doubt a highlight would show him constantly turning the ball over
6. His handpassing was very good - his kicking looks ugly but seemed to find its mark.
7. A positive and a negative - he likes to tackle but quite a few times he slung his opponent in the tackle and we know with slinging that it is a very fineline between ok and suspension.  

 

No. 3 is underrated and something the really elite midfielders seem to have. Think Judd, Ablett, Selwood. Very hard to tackle and knock off their feet. As others have pointed out this isn't Parish it certainly looks like it is Clarry. 

 

19 hours ago, mo64 said:

Are you serious or just taking the pizz?

There was nothing in his highlights reel that screamed "elite skills". That's why I'm asking the track watchers whether they've seen signs of elite talent. Adding muscle doesn't change natural talent. If he's elite like Selwood, Wines and many more, he'd be pushing for selection in round 1, but not necessarily as a primary mid.

I backed Toumpas while he was a Dee but I did choose Wines in the D'land poll. I wanted Wines because he was a bull and built for Rnd 1 duties. One thing he wasn't though was elite. He just did everything with unquestionable gusto and wasn't below average at anything. Just what we needed at the time. A low risk pick with potential for high rewards.

Edited February 18, 20169 yr by DeeMfc
Damn autocorrect....

In mo64's defence he may not have seen the footage that was released closer to and after draft day. I remember watching one clip earlier in the piece that was ok but nothing really stood out as elite. Some of the later footage though had me in no doubt that Oliver was raw but unquestionably the best 'non academy' mid.