It's not all doom and gloom. The injuries to Jetta, Viney, Frost, Kent, Hogan, JKH, Salem, equates to one third of our likely starting 18, If you throw Petrecca and Trengove into the mix and that's nearly half the side. Note that this injury list consist of players where most of the teams significant improvement is going to come from (it's not going to come from the N Jones, L Dunns and D Cross, etc). No side can compete at the same level with such significant losses to their best 18 - How many of the Hawks team were out when they got beaten up by GWS. The dockers rest half a side leading into the finals and get beaten by the bottom side, Sydney rested players going into the finals and get swamped by Richmond. Yes Hawks were without 4 of there staring 18, but that's not even a quarter of the side and realistically, come team performance, they are coming from a far higer base.

It's not all doom and gloom. T MacDonald has been fantastic, L Dunn good (he should be used as the quarterback though, taking advantage of his long penertrating kicks which is far more effective breaking the lines than dinky 20 meter passes) C Garland servicable and provides great flexibility, I even saw J Grimes showed signs of returning confidence (midfield depth). Vanders has shown plenty of potential, Garlett adds spark and Brayshaw looks to be the real thing. That's another third of the starting 18 (grimes excluded) who gives you hope.

It's not all doom and gloom. You can build a team around N Jones, D Tyson, B Vince. Lumumba, Howe brings the intangibles that that seperate the good sides from the successful sides. Cross provides the leadership for development, and onfield coaching the very best sides haves. Again a third of our starting 18.

It's not all doom and gloom. It's not unreasonable to expect at least 3 of Stretch, ANB, Mitchie, Newton, Reilly, O MacDonald, Harmes, Toumpas, to develop nto strong AFL players. Histroy has also shown that at leat one of the likes of Fitzpatrick, Pedersen, Gawn, M Jones, J Watts, Dawes, etc will gain a new/second lease of life and fill roles in a team.

Note: every premiership team consist of players who I refer to as 'stealing a premiership' which are at best depth players think Steve Armstrong - West Coast, Mitch Morton - Swans. Depth is a requirement - the entire squad will not be all A grade or even B grade players.

The intangible "team spirit" is what has slipped overboard. A far bigger challenge for Roos than personnel. As long as key players keep getting injured, our fragile confidence will remain vulnerable. A now longish history of poor results leaves us with very slippery decks.

But, key players who don't get beaten will do us good, and this is accumulating. Plus we do have probably the best leader/developer of men in our coach. Give it time! - the ship's afloat, and no sign of sinking yet.

The intangible "team spirit" is what has slipped overboard. A far bigger challenge for Roos than personnel. As long as key players keep getting injured, our fragile confidence will remain vulnerable. A now longish history of poor results leaves us with very slippery decks.

But, key players who don't get beaten will do us good, and this is accumulating. Plus we do have probably the best leader/developer of men in our coach. Give it time! - the ship's afloat, and no sign of sinking yet.

I had better put the life jacket away then Robbie.

So what will happen if we get beaten by 10 goals against the dogs?

So what will happen if we get beaten by 10 goals against the dogs?

I will cheer for that is way better than my expectation.

So what will happen if we get beaten by 10 goals against the dogs?

People will make excuses about injuries and our age blah blah... (Even tough our average age is older than the Dogs)

Edited May 21, 201510 yr by stuie

That's exactly right Stuie. Nothing about the Team and leadership and intent has changed. If it had and we wern't good enough after putting in 4 quarters effort each game I could handle that and would continue to be optimistic about the future, and would support the team completely. But they don't and the intent and desire is missing and gloom comes from the fact alone

Bull [censored].

The intent and effort was there against the Swans yet many still crucified the team.

Let's not also forget we've played the Swans and Hawks coming off the back of unexpected losses and looking to make a point. I think many are overplaying the deficiencies - yes Saturday was unacceptable but we've now got Hawthorn, Freo and Swans out of the way - we play Freo again but for the rest of the season all things being equal we should match up well with our opposition.

Don't forget how much some teams get protected by the AFL yet still look rubbish. None of Carlton, Richmond or Collingwood have played any if Freo, Hawks or Swans yet! Yet us, the Bulldogs and Cats have already played all 3!

Bull [censored].

The intent and effort was there against the Swans yet many still crucified the team.

Let's not also forget we've played the Swans and Hawks coming off the back of unexpected losses and looking to make a point. I think many are overplaying the deficiencies - yes Saturday was unacceptable but we've now got Hawthorn, Freo and Swans out of the way - we play Freo again but for the rest of the season all things being equal we should match up well with our opposition.

Don't forget how much some teams get protected by the AFL yet still look rubbish. None of Carlton, Richmond or Collingwood have played any if Freo, Hawks or Swans yet! Yet us, the Bulldogs and Cats have already played all 3!

Agree, mate. Except I won't be sympathising with Geelong there. The AFL give them a bloody good go too. Those gate receipts down at Geelong would bring extraordinary revenue.

So what will happen if we get beaten by 10 goals against the dogs?

It will depend on the circumstances.

If we put up another effort like last week, get blown out to 80 points and kick the last few goals to make it 60 it will be an embarrassment.

If we fight it out for 4 quarters but lose around the margins like the Swans game it will be poor but understandable.

If we lose 6 players to injury in the first 5 minutes it will be a heroic effort.

So what will happen if we beat the Dogs by 10 goals? What if Hogan comes back breathing fire and monsters their young backline kicking a bag of goals? What if we bring the same pressure we did against the Tigers and stop their run? What if TMac towels up Tommy Boyd?

Bull [censored].

The intent and effort was there against the Swans yet many still crucified the team.

Let's not also forget we've played the Swans and Hawks coming off the back of unexpected losses and looking to make a point. I think many are overplaying the deficiencies - yes Saturday was unacceptable but we've now got Hawthorn, Freo and Swans out of the way - we play Freo again but for the rest of the season all things being equal we should match up well with our opposition.

Don't forget how much some teams get protected by the AFL yet still look rubbish. None of Carlton, Richmond or Collingwood have played any if Freo, Hawks or Swans yet! Yet us, the Bulldogs and Cats have already played all 3!

Excuses excuses none are needed if you accept that the team isn't coming to play with intent and fierceness.Gonzo you like some others on here are deluded and your blind support for this lot and constant dismissal of those who have a different view only confirms the blindness and denial of reality

It will depend on the circumstances.

If we put up another effort like last week, get blown out to 80 points and kick the last few goals to make it 60 it will be an embarrassment.

If we fight it out for 4 quarters but lose around the margins like the Swans game it will be poor but understandable.

If we lose 6 players to injury in the first 5 minutes it will be a heroic effort.

So what will happen if we beat the Dogs by 10 goals? What if Hogan comes back breathing fire and monsters their young backline kicking a bag of goals? What if we bring the same pressure we did against the Tigers and stop their run? What if TMac towels up Tommy Boyd?

And if we lose it in the first 20 minutes?

Finals by 2018, that’s improbable, two drafting's and 20 players to go.

Roos –retired

Dawes-retired

Lamumba-retired

Trengove-delisted/retired

Gawn-delisted/traded

Mckenzie-delisted/traded

Dunn-retired

Cross-retired

Newton-delisted/traded

Pedersen-retired

Michie-delisted

Vince-delisted

Riley-delisted/traded

Grimes/delisted/traded

Jamar-retired

Howe-traded

Spencer-delisted/traded

Bail-delisted

M.Jones-delisted

Fitzpatrick-delisted/traded

Terlich-delisted

And which player has any relevance to our future beyond next year?

You remain an imbecile

Average age - and the core of mature players is very important - unfortunately we have been unable to develop (or keep) our players so they are backbone of the club like they at Hawthorn and Sydney.

Of course it's important when you're planning/developing a premiership model, but it's an irrelevant consideration in 2015, unless, of course, you don't understand our list.

And which player has any relevance to our future beyond next year?

You remain an imbecile

I believe we presently have about 16 listed players worth moving forward with beyond 2018, and that’s being generous.

Hogan

Viney

Kent

Jones

Salem

Watts

Toumpas

Brayshaw

Tyson

Frost

T.McDonald

Jetta

Neal Bullen

Garlett

Petracca

Stretch

Maybe?

Toumpas

King

Harmes

Excuses excuses none are needed if you accept that the team isn't coming to play with intent and fierceness.Gonzo you like some others on here are deluded and your blind support for this lot and constant dismissal of those who have a different view only confirms the blindness and denial of reality

Not excuses, factors. What did you think about the intent displayed against the Swans?

And if we lose it in the first 20 minutes?

What if, what if....

So what will happen if we get beaten by 10 goals against the dogs?

Going early, but got a good feeling about this week.

A bright spot has to be the development of Max King and ANB.

Max is a tall that can kick and score goals, a rarity. He maybe 2 years off but well worth persevering with.

ANB has done nothing wrong and plenty right and will be a great addition to our midfield and in combination with Viney aand Brayshaw gives plenty of grunt.

A bright spot has to be the development of Max King and ANB.

Max is a tall that can kick and score goals, a rarity. He maybe 2 years off but well worth persevering with.

ANB has done nothing wrong and plenty right and will be a great addition to our midfield and in combination with Viney aand Brayshaw gives plenty of grunt.

reading the last 2 Match Day reports (albiet in the development league) Young Maxxy King looks like he has a world of potential! been killing it.

Edited May 21, 201510 yr by red and blue forever

Of course it's important when you're planning/developing a premiership model, but it's an irrelevant consideration in 2015, unless, of course, you don't understand our list.

Errrrr.... Isn't every club trying to build a premiership team? Unless of course you don't understand football....

We just need to keep doing what the players do. Feel down for a few days perhaps but get ready for the next game.

Keep looking for improvements. If you don't put these horrible games behind us you can't move on.

If you don't put these horrible games behind us you can't move on...

..to the next horrible game.

exactly!

Of course it's important when you're planning/developing a premiership model, but it's an irrelevant consideration in 2015, unless, of course, you don't understand our list.

I don't think it is irrelevant at any time as the successful sides have a great blend of mature and youth. The mature taking the pressure off the youth.

Others here keep banging on about us having the 9th oldest list. If they looked at the quality we have at the "mature" end of our list they would understand why this is a nonsense figure to keep banging on about.

The likes of Hawthorn dont harp on endlessly about the Andersons and Hartungs , like we do about Hogan and Brayshaw because they have Hodge, Mitchell, Roughhead, Burgoyne. That they may have the oldest list may mean something as look at the quality of those senior players.

I understand why Roos brings in the older players as whether you are in the premiership window or not you need the mature bodies and minds to take the heat off the youngsters. The problem is that great mature players don't grow on trees and the one's we have imported added to what have is adequate at best.

I don't think it is irrelevant at any time as the successful sides have a great blend of mature and youth. The mature taking the pressure off the youth.

Others here keep banging on about us having the 9th oldest list. If they looked at the quality we have at the "mature" end of our list they would understand why this is a nonsense figure to keep banging on about.

The likes of Hawthorn dont harp on endlessly about the Andersons and Hartungs , like we do about Hogan and Brayshaw because they have Hodge, Mitchell, Roughhead, Burgoyne. That they may have the oldest list may mean something as look at the quality of those senior players.

I understand why Roos brings in the older players as whether you are in the premiership window or not you need the mature bodies and minds to take the heat off the youngsters. The problem is that great mature players don't grow on trees and the one's we have imported added to what have is adequate at best.

You guys are both missing the point. No one is saying our older players are great, what we are saying is it should be the older players that are leading the way with their spirit and effort, but it's not. It's constantly left to the younger players to show an AFL level effort and that is the problem. It doesn't take talent to give effort.

So F all has changed since last year. I also fail to see which games we will win going forward

I would like to be betting on Carlton Brisbane and the Saints to beat us

You haven,t got the heart for football. Just like a player who drops his head when someone gets on top. Move on

You haven,t got the heart for football. Just like a player who drops his head when someone gets on top. Move on

lol...do you just travel from thread to thread telling people they're soft, not wanted, should change clubs etc? It certainly seems that way.