I guess the real question most on here would like the answer to is...'Who made the decision to recruit Toumpas over Wines', many would like to lay the blame on Neeld.

It would be good to know the answer if only to lay a few rumours to rest.

It's not going to be asked or answered any time soon so lets move on.

Even if we did find out what difference would it make anyway?

We made our decisions in a bad system.

Moaning in hindsight is pointless.

Even if we did find out what difference would it make anyway?

We made our decisions in a bad system.

Moaning in hindsight is pointless.

punters fail to realise that all the recruiters have to go on is very limited exposed form and have no insight on how they will mature and turn out.

We go with selections that we right at the time - Morton, Toumpas ( although he still has little time to prove himself), Sylvia, McClean, Scully ,Trengove and they turn out to be a bust.

We punt on selections - Cook and Strauss who were considered to be taken well before their ranking and they turn out to be a bust.

Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

Sooooo....... Looking forward to seeing him reminisce about his great career on Open Mike.

Because Toumpas was the standout choice at the time. Toumpas has proven to be an ordinary selection but recruiters don't get the benefit of hindsight.

FWIW, you were one of the 148 Demonlanders who voted Toumpas.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32253-poll-wines-or-toumpas/

Ouch...

I don't give a flying "f" what the draft experts say Nut for the same reasons you have stated

But Todd was privvy to more than anyone as far as Ollie is concerned.

That is the mystery to me....

So if you disagree with the "experts" then you agree with the same punt that was taken on Cook and Strauss - taken well before their rankings ? You can't have it both ways. You either go with the "collective wisdom" which Toumpas was or you take who you think is going to be a winner against "collective wisdom" - Cook and Strauss.

Either way we have been burned badly..

You say Todd was privvy - you would think that Jack Viney was too and he stated plainly he would pickToumpas but didn't think he would be available at our pick. So someone who had played with both and had insight selected Toumpas as well.

What does it tell you ? It tells you it's guesswork.

I am still tipping that one of Brayshaw, Petracca or McCartin will be a bust as one of the top three has underwhelmed in most drafts.

With 2 suspect hips....Yeah right

Judd needed 2 shoulder recos. so......

punters fail to realise that all the recruiters have to go on is very limited exposed form and have no insight on how they will mature and turn out.

We go with selections that we right at the time - Morton, Toumpas ( although he still has little time to prove himself), Sylvia, McClean, Scully ,Trengove and they turn out to be a bust.

We punt on selections - Cook and Strauss who were considered to be taken well before their ranking and they turn out to be a bust.

Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

FFS, keep Morton out of the discussion.

Because Toumpas was the standout choice at the time. Toumpas has proven to be an ordinary selection but recruiters don't get the benefit of hindsight.

FWIW, you were one of the 148 Demonlanders who voted Toumpas.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32253-poll-wines-or-toumpas/

Missed my point totally mate,

Todd knew Ollie for many years before the draft, best friends with Jack and the way he is going at AFL level i seriously doubt would surprise him, and then you have Jake Stringer, Jackson McRrae, Troy Menzel, Sam Mayes all very talented young players

even Brodie Grundy would have been a good selection

i'm curious why Toump is the one he chose, remember between Taylor and Todd they have hardly missed a selection, even Matt Jones, Terlich and the mature age guys have made an impact, but Toump is really struggling to impact games, i'd love to know the reason why they didn't pick Wines,

the club themselves said publicly they were excited by the prospect of setting up the engine room for the next decade with Viney, Wines and Jones

i argued against this move because i had and still have concerns that our midfield is too one paced and we lack outside class in a big way, and i still have faith the Toump will make it as a player under the guidance of Roos, Mcartney and Goodwin but i'd love to know the reason for the selection because i'm sure it wasn't what the media draft experts thought that made the decision for todd.

From memory, Toumpas was considered a likely pick 1 who slipped to 3. Sure that was Viney's view.

For all the armchair experts, its easier to draft at picks 6-10 than picks 1-5. There is so much less pressure to get it right. Very few recruiters/clubs in the top 5 go against consensus - the fallout is too great.

Happy to be reminded of when that last occurred - ie a club with a single top 5 pick taking someone clearly outside the top 5 [Edit: Stephen Hill is the closest I could find. Everyone thought Freo would take Rich]

The other factor is past history. Wines was also very similar to Viney in that they are inside players with grunt. The last time we did that was with Sylvia and McLean. That didn't quite work out either.

We have what we have. Stop harping on about who we could have taken. It is pointless.

Edited May 4, 201510 yr by jnrmac

So if you disagree with the "experts" then you agree with the same punt that was taken on Cook and Strauss - taken well before their rankings ? You can't have it both ways. You either go with the "collective wisdom" which Toumpas was or you take who you think is going to be a winner against "collective wisdom" - Cook and Strauss.

Either way we have been burned badly..

You say Todd was privvy - you would think that Jack Viney was too and he stated plainly he would pickToumpas but didn't think he would be available at our pick. So someone who had played with both and had insight selected Toumpas as well.

What does it tell you ? It tells you it's guesswork.

I am still tipping that one of Brayshaw, Petracca or McCartin will be a bust as one of the top three has underwhelmed in most drafts.

1st round draft picks can become busts 'nb' ...in fact, more than half of all 1st round draft picks have become busts.

If I can find the time, I'll list them all one day.

Equally, there are just as many top players who have been picked outside of the first round

It's a bad system

We need a show called "Open Slather" where we can get all the recruiters in a room and question every decision they make. It will be great TV and will make us all feel that bit better.

Missed my point totally mate,

Todd knew Ollie for many years before the draft, best friends with Jack and the way he is going at AFL level i seriously doubt would surprise him, and then you have Jake Stringer, Jackson McRrae, Troy Menzel, Sam Mayes all very talented young players

even Brodie Grundy would have been a good selection

i'm curious why Toump is the one he chose, remember between Taylor and Todd they have hardly missed a selection, even Matt Jones, Terlich and the mature age guys have made an impact, but Toump is really struggling to impact games, i'd love to know the reason why they didn't pick Wines,

the club themselves said publicly they were excited by the prospect of setting up the engine room for the next decade with Viney, Wines and Jones

i argued against this move because i had and still have concerns that our midfield is too one paced and we lack outside class in a big way, and i still have faith the Toump will make it as a player under the guidance of Roos, Mcartney and Goodwin but i'd love to know the reason for the selection because i'm sure it wasn't what the media draft experts thought that made the decision for todd.

I still think you're underselling how good Toumpas was thought to be before entering the AFL. It's highly likely Todd Viney knew Wines would be a star but he clearly thought Toumpas would be better. As it turns out, we stuffed that up. But nobody questioned the selection at the time. In fact, most people thought Toumpas was one of the steals of the draft.

I still think you're underselling how good Toumpas was thought to be before entering the AFL. It's highly likely Todd Viney knew Wines would be a star but he clearly thought Toumpas would be better. As it turns out, we stuffed that up. But nobody questioned the selection at the time. In fact, most people thought Toumpas was one of the steals of the draft.

personally i think we didn't go wines, because when toumpas, who all the media rated higher, suddenly became available, it might look like nepotism if viney picked wines

a case of not taking your original option. i'll bet toumpas wasn't scrutinised anywhere as much as wines as he wasn't expected to be in the mix

Edited May 4, 201510 yr by daisycutter

I still think you're underselling how good Toumpas was thought to be before entering the AFL. It's highly likely Todd Viney knew Wines would be a star but he clearly thought Toumpas would be better. As it turns out, we stuffed that up. But nobody questioned the selection at the time. In fact, most people thought Toumpas was one of the steals of the draft.

A couple of the points i'd make about the selection process is

1. was the club concerned about their image due to previous stuff ups in the draft, took Toumpas because he was more highly rated and by extension seen as a safer choice despite possibly prefering Wines as a player? if we took Wines when a more highly rated player was available and he didn't come on it'd be seen as MFC making the same mistakes and not learning from them? same principal as we couldn't take a chance on an untried coach after Neeld, couldn't take risks

2. was Toumpas slipping through to pick 4 by design, as good as Hogan is i believe, 3, 13 and whatever we paid to get him was overs, was a handshake deal to see Toumpas slide past GWS part of the deal?

3. was the recruiting staff overruled by Mark Neeld who clearly rated Toumpas, publicly we were linked to Wines all year, so no doubt he was choice number 2 but i'd love to know if Todd, or Neeld pushed the case for Toumpas over Wines

point three is highlighted by our recruiting since Neeld left, we have taken Christian Salem, Angus Brayshaw, Christian Petracca, Neil Bullen, Vandenberg, Newton all of which are quality inside players, hard at it and very good tacklers, Kennedy-Harris and Stretch have been bought in at later picks to provide speed but the fundamental approach to recruit ball winners has totally changed

Edited May 4, 201510 yr by Sir Paul Roos

DF, not a particularly auspicious start to demonland. Insulting other posters is poor form and says more about you than perhaps you want to share, tone it down and mind your manners.

at least it qualifies him for the rising star of the week award, mandee

DF, not a particularly auspicious start to demonland. Insulting other posters is poor form and says more about you than perhaps you want to share, tone it down and mind your manners.

Errr, are you a mod? Let them handle this ManDee.

Errr, are you a mod? Let them handle this ManDee.

errrr, are you an adjudicator, moonie

errrr, are you an adjudicator, moonie

No, more like a fornicator dc.

I say leave it up to the mods.

Errr, are you a mod? Let them handle this ManDee.

Oh, so you are a mod?

This is a fan site, we talk footy, we often have a dig at each other that is fine by me but to launch in to calling another poster a fat MoFo, please.

I don't give a flying "f" what the draft experts say Nut for the same reasons you have stated

But Todd was privvy to more than anyone as far as Ollie is concerned.

That is the mystery to me....

FMD mate i come on here expecting to read all about Todd and you have completely smashed this and turned it into a shitcan Jimmy Toumpas thread!

Edited May 4, 201510 yr by dazzledavey36

Oh, so you are a mod?

This is a fan site, we talk footy, we often have a dig at each other that is fine by me but to launch in to calling another poster a fat MoFo, please.

I don't think its ok either, but unlike you, I'll leave it to the mods. Whatever......

Looking forward to hearing from Todd Viney on Open Mike as I think he is a straight talker and will have some great stories of his playing days. Some interesting characters at the club during his time.

I don't think its ok either, but unlike you, I'll leave it to the mods. Whatever......

Looking forward to hearing from Todd Viney on Open Mike as I think he is a straight talker and will have some great stories of his playing days. Some interesting characters at the club during his time.

did you have a bad day today, moonie?

FMD mate i come on here expecting to read all about Todd and you have completely smashed this and turned it into a shitcan Jimmy Toumpas thread!

Sorry mate, but he blew a 10 year Brownlow prospect

I want to know why

did you have a bad day today, moonie?

My bad day was yesterday, being tortured at the footy by BBO and Biff.

My bad day was yesterday, being tortured at the footy by BBO and Biff.

well you shouldn't take your bad judgement out on the rest of us

you've had priors and you should have known better