Vale Malcolm Fraser

[Guest]

I was deeply saddened to find this out around midday today. A true leader when there is a paucity of leadership in both major parties. Malcolm was the politician I respected most. I consider myself a Malcolm Fraser liberal (which makes me a lefty by default)

[dee-luded 2,959]

I was deeply saddened to find this out around midday today. A true leader when there is a paucity of leadership in both major parties. Malcolm was the politician I respected most. I consider myself a Malcolm Fraser liberal (which makes me a lefty by default)

yes indeed, he aged like a bottle of wine, a good bottle o' wine.

he matured & grew into a fine Aussie representative of humanitarian values.

R.I.P. Malcolm Fraser...

[dee-luded 2,959]

I was deeply saddened to find this out around midday today. A true leader when there is a paucity of leadership in both major parties. Malcolm was the politician I respected most. I consider myself a Malcolm Fraser liberal (which makes me a lefty by default)

think Malcolm matured to move more left of what was in the early 70's, & a long way left of what today is economical policy.

the whole world is numbers mad. life isn't about numbers, or trade balances, or winning... its about living,,, with friends & happiness.

its not a competition.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

I remember that, just before Hawke defeated him, Fraser gave an interview in which he talked a little about his childhood, and I believe that his commitment to human rights and opposition to racism was lifelong, and not a late blooming.

Tony Abbott's tribute to him made no mention of this, but was confined to the narrative of saving the Australian economy from Labour's profligate spending, which was Fraser's narrative at the time. Abbott used the same narrative himself in 2013. Fraser proved to be a poor economic manager, but probably not as clueless as Abbott.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I remember that, just before Hawke defeated him, Fraser gave an interview in which he talked a little about his childhood, and I believe that his commitment to human rights and opposition to racism was lifelong, and not a late blooming.

Tony Abbott's tribute to him made no mention of this, but was confined to the narrative of saving the Australian economy from Labour's profligate spending, which was Fraser's narrative at the time. Abbott used the same narrative himself in 2013. Fraser proved to be a poor economic manager, but probably not as clueless as Abbott.

his human rights wasn't late blooming, he Mellowed, relaxed & matured with his life's experiences, imo. a fine Aussie. not a sir in him.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I remember that, just before Hawke defeated him, Fraser gave an interview in which he talked a little about his childhood, and I believe that his commitment to human rights and opposition to racism was lifelong, and not a late blooming.

Tony Abbott's tribute to him made no mention of this, but was confined to the narrative of saving the Australian economy from Labour's profligate spending, which was Fraser's narrative at the time. Abbott used the same narrative himself in 2013. Fraser proved to be a poor economic manager, but probably not as clueless as Abbott.

abbot would drop thru the holes of the net, which landed MFraser.

the rabbot is a throwback.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

This:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/the-day-malcolm-fraser-saved-my-career-as-a-journalist-20150320-1m3s4f.html

"He spent his early childhood drifting around the paddocks of a large property in the NSW Riverina when his only real friend was a young Indigenous girl."

Marked him for life.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I remember that, just before Hawke defeated him, Fraser gave an interview in which he talked a little about his childhood, and I believe that his commitment to human rights and opposition to racism was lifelong, and not a late blooming.

Tony Abbott's tribute to him made no mention of this, but was confined to the narrative of saving the Australian economy from Labour's profligate spending, which was Fraser's narrative at the time. Abbott used the same narrative himself in 2013. Fraser proved to be a poor economic manager, but probably not as clueless as Abbott.

Malcolm did change as he matured.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/malcolm-fraser-was-planning-to-start-a-new-political-party-before-his-death-20150320-1m46kd.html

Malcolm Fraser was planning to start a new political party before his death

Former prime minister Malcolm Fraser, who died on Friday, was in the process of setting up a new political party that would have advocated scaling back Australia's military ties to the United States.

Mr Fraser, who led the Liberal Party from 1975 to 1983, quit the party in 2009, shortly after Tony Abbott replaced Malcolm Turnbull as leader.

He campaigned for Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young at the last election because of her stance on asylum seekers.

With an election due in mid to late 2016, Mr Fraser's new party could have potentially run candidates at the next election.

Mr Fraser, who died aged 84, would not have led the party, but would have driven its policy agenda. Fairfax Media understands Mr Fraser had developed a written draft policy platform for the party that included:

• ending Australia's close military alliance with the United States
• a closer relationship with South-East Asian nations
• ending the offshore processing of asylum seekers
• stronger anti-corruption and transparency laws
• tighter regulation of the sale of arable land

Mr Fraser discussed the party with confidants late last year.

In his last book, Dangerous Allies, published last year, Mr Fraser argued that Australia should become a "strategically independent country" and that the ANZUS Treaty with the United States was possibly the biggest threat to Australia's security.

....... "If a war between China and the United States were to occur with a continuation of current policies, it would be very hard, if not impossible, for Australia to become involved," he wrote.

Mr Fraser advocated closing down the US military base in Darwin and the Pine Gap communications facility.

Mr Fraser had been a staunch defender of the US alliance during the Cold War but changed his view radically in his later years.

Mr Fraser was also deeply unhappy with the tough asylum-seeker policies of both major parties, including the use of mandatory detention and the offshore processing of asylum seekers.

Last year Mr Fraser tweeted in support of the creation of a federal Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC).

As prime minister, Mr Fraser introduced several measures to increase transparency of government decision making.

...... These included the creation of the Commonwealth Ombudsman in 1977 to handle complaints about government agencies.

He also introduced Australia's first freedom of information laws and created the Australian Human Rights Commission.

.

[jazza 1,323]

His guards shutting down Peterborough when "big Mal" was on holiday didnt impress many.

His daughter getting caught in the spy scandal was even worse.

But for sheer Aussie prime minister shannigans the trowser escapade beats most.{even PJK's french clocks}.

[Earl Hood 6,152]

I believe Big Mal never changed his values or politics or views on life from when he was PM. He was always small l liberal in the Menzies tradition. His beliefs, instincts from when he was in power 1975 to 1982 predate Reagonomics and Thatcherism. The modern LNP reflects Neo conservative economic values, Reagonomics and the interests of multinationals. We have all moved to the right in our thinking, even if we don't realise it. Thank the media for that especially the Murdoch international Press

Big Mal valued people and worked hard to deal with the Vietnamese diaspora, to an extent that puts all of us now to shame. Most of those Vietnamese boat people are now outstanding citizens contributing to our economy. We owed them a place in our country, I thought because we had been part of the Vietnam War. We have played our part in wars against Iraq and Afganistan, yet if refugees from these conflicts show up by boat we vilify them? How times have changed, no thanks to John Howard who led us down tjis slippery slope. And yes matched by Rudd, Gillard and co because politically they thought they had no choice.

I hated Malcolm in 1975 but came to realise he had values that I could at least respect. A bit different from our current lot. Pyne, Hockey, Hunt, Morrison, give me a break. Both sides have to lift their game. But I don't see it happening any time soon.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I believe Big Mal never changed his values or politics or views on life from when he was PM. He was always small l liberal in the Menzies tradition. His beliefs, instincts from when he was in power 1975 to 1982 predate Reagonomics and Thatcherism. The modern LNP reflects Neo conservative economic values, Reagonomics and the interests of multinationals. We have all moved to the right in our thinking, even if we don't realise it. Thank the media for that especially the Murdoch international Press

Big Mal valued people and worked hard to deal with the Vietnamese diaspora, to an extent that puts all of us now to shame. Most of those Vietnamese boat people are now outstanding citizens contributing to our economy. We owed them a place in our country, I thought because we had been part of the Vietnam War. We have played our part in wars against Iraq and Afganistan, yet if refugees from these conflicts show up by boat we vilify them? How times have changed, no thanks to John Howard who led us down tjis slippery slope. And yes matched by Rudd, Gillard and co because politically they thought they had no choice.

I hated Malcolm in 1975 but came to realise he had values that I could at least respect. A bit different from our current lot. Pyne, Hockey, Hunt, Morrison, give me a break. Both sides have to lift their game. But I don't see it happening any time soon.

mal learnt to stop hiding his better side imo. learnt to trust people somehow, & show his inner light. that which he could not earlier in his leadership. I think he must have grown from his defeat.

he could relate much better when he stood for people, instead of regimes.

[Guest]

I was disappointed that I didn't get to meet Mr. Fraser before he passed. I felt in a bit of a funk yesterday to be honest and had to force myself out of the house as I felt strangely sad about what had happened. Obviously his family would be hurting and anyone's death is tragic but I think I also felt melancholy as I realized that small l Liberal values had lost a great champion and asylum seekers had lost their most visible and high profile defender. There are many great people out there working for asylum seekers but very few with the aura of Mr. Fraser. He was a man who commanded instant attention and respect and those who believed in the issues he did are the poorer for his passing.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I was disappointed that I didn't get to meet Mr. Fraser before he passed. I felt in a bit of a funk yesterday to be honest and had to force myself out of the house as I felt strangely sad about what had happened. Obviously his family would be hurting and anyone's death is tragic but I think I also felt melancholy as I realized that small l Liberal values had lost a great champion and asylum seekers had lost their most visible and high profile defender. There are many great people out there working for asylum seekers but very few with the aura of Mr. Fraser. He was a man who commanded instant attention and respect and those who believed in the issues he did are the poorer for his passing.

I understand your funk CBF. I felt like that & worse when the first space shuttle went down. depressed for some time. odd the impacts of somethings.

I don't share the notion of accepting the boat people, who fly into one country from 1/3rd of the world away, with the intent to hop aboard leaky boats to force/embarrass the nation you aspire to, to take you onshore.

I cannot agree with this strategy, but I did agree with taking in the Vietnamese who were from within our region & fleeing a tortured land; sailing all the way. no flights payed from their wallets. or bribes to hop aboard leaky boat. nor burning the boats as help arrived.

Malcolm was a very good man. & the l Liberal is a missed thing in my book, just as community spirit has disappeared from our nation, in its raw unplugged true form.

...... donating money to a charity, doesn't = community spirit.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

We must never forget this day

[Guest]

We must never forget this day

Most of Malcolm's more contemporary admirers say without deviation, 'I agree with you on most things except the dismissal.' He never backed away from what he did and good on him for sticking to his guns but it never sat well with me. Some of his more small l Liberal cabinet members came out later against it. I think Malcolm was more or less boxed into a corner as he was the face of the Liberal party during that imbroglio so he felt he had to justify it. I like to think of it were say Billy Snedden leading the charge again for a double dissolution, Mal might have been more circumspect in supporting those tactics.

[Guest]

Most of Malcolm's more contemporary admirers say without deviation, 'I agree with you on most things except the dismissal.' He never backed away from what he did and good on him for sticking to his guns but it never sat well with me. Some of his more small l Liberal cabinet members came out later against it. I think Malcolm was more or less boxed into a corner as he was the face of the Liberal party during that imbroglio so he felt he had to justify it. I like to think if it were say Billy Snedden leading the charge again for a double dissolution, Mal might have been more circumspect in supporting those tactics.

[Grapeviney 9,914]

Most of Malcolm's more contemporary admirers say without deviation, 'I agree with you on most things except the dismissal.' He never backed away from what he did and good on him for sticking to his guns but it never sat well with me. Some of his more small l Liberal cabinet members came out later against it. I think Malcolm was more or less boxed into a corner as he was the face of the Liberal party during that imbroglio so he felt he had to justify it. I like to think of it were say Billy Snedden leading the charge again for a double dissolution, Mal might have been more circumspect in supporting those tactics.

It's amazing that the dismissal still rouses intense passions today, nearly 40 years on.

In one of the tribute programs that have been shown over the past few days, Fraser said that he didn't believe the dismissal to be the most divisive event in Australian political history, an honour he said belonged to Billy Hughes' conscription push during WW1. It's a fair call given the political and religious splits it created.

The other interesting point he made about blocking supply was that in '73 (or '74?) spending in the Budget increased by 40 percent - in a single year! What, Fraser asked, would the modern Senate do today if a Government tried to do that?

[daisycutter 29,917]

never understood the fuss

it was all resolved by a good old-fashioned, democratic, people's vote (and very convincingly)

what's so bad about that?

[Earl Hood 6,152]

It's amazing that the dismissal still rouses intense passions today, nearly 40 years on.

In one of the tribute programs that have been shown over the past few days, Fraser said that he didn't believe the dismissal to be the most divisive event in Australian political history, an honour he said belonged to Billy Hughes' conscription push during WW1. It's a fair call given the political and religious splits it created.

The other interesting point he made about blocking supply was that in '73 (or '74?) spending in the Budget increased by 40 percent - in a single year! What, Fraser asked, would the modern Senate do today if a Government tried to do that?

A modern day senate of cross benches would block the new legislation and therefore the expenditure. They would not block supply and with it the right of a democratically elected Government to govern. Just a small legal difference there. Let's not downplay that event. Put it in the context of the day. After 23 years of conservative rule, aided by the bitter split of the DLP from the ALP , Gough wins but is after a short time harassed by the establishment, the conservative state governments and later the Murdoch Press. For the true believers it was a classic coup. The economy was on the up and the Hayden budget if passed by the Senate would have turned things around.

How do I know that you may ask? Well it is because once Fraser forced the election and won, they passed the senate bills and the Hayden budget initiatives were implemented for the next year to help drag the economy out of stagflation.

[dee-luded 2,959]

A modern day senate of cross benches would block the new legislation and therefore the expenditure. They would not block supply and with it the right of a democratically elected Government to govern. Just a small legal difference there. Let's not downplay that event. Put it in the context of the day. After 23 years of conservative rule, aided by the bitter split of the DLP from the ALP , Gough wins but is after a short time harassed by the establishment, the conservative state governments and later the Murdoch Press. For the true believers it was a classic coup. The economy was on the up and the Hayden budget if passed by the Senate would have turned things around.

How do I know that you may ask? Well it is because once Fraser forced the election and won, they passed the senate bills and the Hayden budget initiatives were implemented for the next year to help drag the economy out of stagflation.

and this is why people are voting in senators, as we now do.

I think its a step in the right direction back to a true democracy, without the 2 parties running roughshod on they're agendas & disregarding to peoples wishes. the big parties have become enslaved to lobbyists & big business & the truth is the victim of these arrangements.

Now the people will begin to hear the truth more often, & then will be able to make more informed judgements. & big business will be put back where it belongs, eventually.

.... & pay its taxes again.

[daisycutter 29,917]

and this is why people are voting in senators, as we now do.

i know i shouldn'nt ask, but care to expand on this?

[dee-luded 2,959]

i know i shouldn'nt ask, but care to expand on this?

getting more cross benches, people want more cross benches & less of the pro party-spin & deception; with ministers & senators just sprouting out the loyal party lines.

Nick Xenophon & his ilk, are a godsend, in the Brian Harradine, Don Chipp, Bob Brown way. Rob Oakeshott, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, the Mad Hatter, & the non aligned senators is very good for australian democracy.

maybe slows the economic beans from jumping as high, but suits the people much better, with all those independent minds & voices. of a conscience.

[daisycutter 29,917]

getting more cross benches, people want more cross benches & less of the pro party-spin & deception; with ministers & senators just sprouting out the loyal party lines.

Nick Xenophon & his ilk, are a godsend, in the Brian Harradine, Don Chipp, Bob Brown way. Rob Oakeshott, Tony Windsor, Andrew Wilkie, the Mad Hatter, & the non aligned senators is very good for australian democracy.

maybe slows the economic beans from jumping as high, but suits the people much better, with all those independent minds & voices. of a conscience.

as long as you are not defending the like of jacqui lambie, ricky muir etc

[dee-luded 2,959]

as long as you are not defending the like of jacqui lambie, ricky muir etc

actually I think first impressions are deceiving DC. I think Lambie is growing into the role, & Muir is getting more confident, so I'll reserve my judgement til I see more from him.

You see the way I see it, the 2 party system has failed 'the people' broadly, & favoured the corporates, & failed the small Farmers & the small manufacturing sectors making parts & the like for the bigger industries, like the car industry.

It has favoured the big publicly listed companies, & we have the like of the supermarket duopoly, who tell the suppliers what they are willing to pay for the products, ripping off farmers, & Manufacturers, & then ripping off the consumers.

the petrol company schemes are not producing price competitiveness. & we are about to buy all our cars from OS.

we are selling the farms OS as the farmers are being sent broke by the big publicly listed supermarkets & middle men; & then the chinee come along & snap up the leftovers of the farms for niks, & then want to bring in their own workers to work Our land to produce they're beef & other foods at they're own wages.

..... pretty soon they will Own half of Australia, including all the Iron they need, & Uranium, Bauxite, & they'll just help themselves to the rest. then Indeeya will follow suit.