Very interested to see if Dawes plays against peptide fill ins given that he's suspended for season opener.

I can't see how Vince nor Howe could be considered at this point.

My current guess with one preseason game to go:

B: Jetta - Dunn - Frost

HB: Grimes - T. McDonald - Salem

C: Lumumba - N. Jones - Toumpas

HF: Watts - Pedersen - Kennedy-Harris

F:Gawn - Hogan - Garlett

Foll: Jamar - Tyson - Viney

I/c: Cross - Newton - Garland

Sub: Kent

Emerg: Michie - Bail - M Jones

Very interested to see if Dawes plays against peptide fill ins given that he's suspended for season opener.

I can't see how Vince nor Howe could be considered at this point.

My current guess with one preseason game to go:

B: Jetta - Dunn - Frost

HB: Grimes - T. McDonald - Salem

C: Lumumba - N. Jones - Toumpas

HF: Watts - Pedersen - Kennedy-Harris

F:Gawn - Hogan - Garlett

Foll: Jamar - Tyson - Viney

I/c: Cross - Newton - Garland

Sub: Kent

Emerg: Michie - Bail - M Jones

19 days to go and still no footy...

It is going to be tough for Vince and Howe.

Round 1 team of 2014.... could be over 10 changes to that team.

MELBOURNE

B: D.Terlich J.Frawley J.Grimes

HB: L.Dunn T.McDonald B.Vince

C: J.Toumpas J.Watts D.Tyson

HF: R.Bail J.Fitzpatrick D.Cross

F: S.Byrnes C.Pedersen J.Howe

FOLL: J.Spencer N.Jones J.Trengove

I/C: V.Michie M.Jones J.Kennedy-Harris A.Georgiou

EMG: D.Nicholson S.Blease M.Evans

Round 1 team of 2014.... could be over 10 changes to that team.

MELBOURNE

B: D.Terlich J.Frawley J.Grimes

HB: L.Dunn T.McDonald B.Vince

C: J.Toumpas J.Watts D.Tyson

HF: R.Bail J.Fitzpatrick D.Cross

F: S.Byrnes C.Pedersen J.Howe

FOLL: J.Spencer N.Jones J.Trengove

I/C: V.Michie M.Jones J.Kennedy-Harris A.Georgiou

EMG: D.Nicholson S.Blease M.Evans

5 certainties and the rest are question marks for various reasons, will not be in the mix, or are gone.

Round 1 team of 2014.... could be over 10 changes to that team.

MELBOURNE

B: D.Terlich J.Frawley J.Grimes

HB: L.Dunn T.McDonald B.Vince

C: J.Toumpas J.Watts D.Tyson

HF: R.Bail J.Fitzpatrick D.Cross

F: S.Byrnes C.Pedersen J.Howe

FOLL: J.Spencer N.Jones J.Trengove

I/C: V.Michie M.Jones J.Kennedy-Harris A.Georgiou

EMG: D.Nicholson S.Blease M.Evans

Can't say Roos isn't making his mark on the team.

Very interested to see if Dawes plays against peptide fill ins given that he's suspended for season opener.

I can't see how Vince nor Howe could be considered at this point.

My current guess with one preseason game to go:

B: Jetta - Dunn - Frost

HB: Grimes - T. McDonald - Salem

C: Lumumba - N. Jones - Toumpas

HF: Watts - Pedersen - Kennedy-Harris

F:Gawn - Hogan - Garlett

Foll: Jamar - Tyson - Viney

I/c: Cross - Newton - Garland

Sub: Kent

Emerg: Michie - Bail - M Jones

I quite like the team put forward by DA (above) but l have a sneaking suspicion that vanDemon might just be a smokie.

Very interested to see if Dawes plays against peptide fill ins given that he's suspended for season opener.

I'd play him. I can't see whatever combination of Gawn/Pedersen/Frost/Fitzy/Watts doing well enough to keep Dawes out of round 2

I quite like the team put forward by OD (above) but l have a sneaking suspicion that vanDemon might just be a smokie.

I'm all for him, but missing most of the game on Saturday won't help his chances.

Missing round 1 isn't the end of the world.

After the Freo game I thought Grimes would be lucky to last until round 1, but considering Howe is still 2 weeks away at best which is touch and go for round 1, Lumumba is spending a lot of time in the midfield, Frost is being played forward, Terlich isn't even in the VFL team year and no other half back options besides McKenzie have been trialled there really isn't a lot of competition for Grimes' spot.

Watts has played a half so far and has been preparing to play as a medium forward. There's really only 3 spots plus maybe the sub for small and medium forwards. He's still every chance to play round 1 but there's no way he should be an automatic inclusion and so he'll have to get through a full game first to state his case.

I understand your points but I can't agree with regards to Grimes. I say that because he has no attacking side to his game, I could of got a kick in the first half on Saturday. Would you consider Toumpas on the other flank in place of Grimes? Toumpas has shown he doesn't mind getting amongst it, he can lay a tackle but he can also dispose of the ball.

Defence: McDonald, Dunn, Salem, Frost, Grimes, and Jetta.

Midfield rotation: Jones, Tyson, Cross, Viney, Newton ,M Jones, Lumumba (Def), JKH (Fwd), and Bail (Fwd),

Primary Forwards: Pedersen, Garlett, Hogan, and Watts.

Rucks: Jamar and Gawn.

Sub: Kent

Emer: Garland Michie Toumpas

howe seems to have the longest hamy injurey ithink its been done since xmas,any updates

Missing round 1 isn't the end of the world.

I don't know that we're in a position to be that choosy - we need to give ourselves the best chance we can in every match, especially against teams who aren't Hawthorn (or similar).

This to me is an interesting one. You have people arguing players like Dunn and Jetta had their best year last year and they are 27 and 25 respectively, so based on that we need to give Grimes (25) Bail (26) M Jones (27) Garland (26) McKenzie (24) more time. Did Dunn and Jetta start playing their best footy happen because they reached a certain age or played a certain amount of games? Or did it happen due to Roos becoming coach and setting standards for the group and giving each player a role. I've said many times in the past Nathan Jones also had his best year last year under Roos/Stone because (a) he had more support and (b) he started to think his way through situations rather than try and barge his way through when there wasn't an immediate alternative. Other players games have also improved. With the addition of McCartney we have a formidable coaching group. We are now seeing some players fall behind from the main group in terms of skill/abilty/footy smarts, great clubs drop these players to the VFL, explain to them what areas they need to work on then give them the chance to do that. If players can't kick the footy/or grasp the gameplan under the current coaching regime will they ever be able to? Some posters on here seem hell bent on clinging on to these players. I would rather games be given to the likes of Toumpas, Mitchie, VB, Frost etc, whilst their output has been varied due to different reasons why can't these players be given the game time the others took for granted. Grimes is an automatic selection because he's in the leadership group? Garland had a good season 3 or 4 years ago, so what, if anything that may have warranted him selection the following season but injury aside there has been a slow decent in his form. The last two weeks has shown us we clearly don't have the depth many on here were banging on about. So we have two options, firstly continue to play people who have been in the system for years and still can't put it together or secondly give those same opportunities to the next batch coming through who may or may not have done enough to cement their spot but are deserving of the same opportunities given the potential they have. If they too can't cut they also can be moved on.

I'd like to see Grimes tried as a tagger. His foot skills are a liability coming of out defense and he doesn't have a point of difference that will make him a damaging midfielder. What he does have is a work ethic and discipline which could take him a long way. Play him on Prestia in round 1 and see how he goes.

This to me is an interesting one. You have people arguing players like Dunn and Jetta had their best year last year and they are 27 and 25 respectively, so based on that we need to give Grimes (25) Bail (26) M Jones (27) Garland (26) McKenzie (24) more time.

This sort of thinking makes me break out in a cold sweat. The Simon Godfrey's of the world would be getting 5 year contracts so they have plenty of time to develop and you would be making minimal changes to the list year after year.

You don't hold onto spuds simply because Jetta and Dunn turned it around later in their careers.

If Grimes, Bail, Jones and McKenzie can't hit the side of a barn at 24+, having played football their whole lives, then they don't suddenly learn how to kick at 25 or 27. If you can't do the basics well then you don't have a future.

Jetta and Dunn had very different issues to the players you've mentioned. Jetta's issues were injury/suspension and never getting a consistent run. Dunn's issue was never being allowed to settle into a position. Bail, Jones, Grimes, Terlich and McKenzie simply can't kick, and this can't be fixed.

Back on topic:

Jetta Frost Dunn

Salem McDonald Lumumba

Cross Viney Toumpas

Garlett Hogan Watts

JKH Gawn Pederson

Jamar Tyson Jones

Newton Kent Grimes

Sub: Vandenberg

This sort of thinking makes me break out in a cold sweat. The Simon Godfrey's of the world would be getting 5 year contracts so they have plenty of time to develop and you would be making minimal changes to the list year after year.

You don't hold onto spuds simply because Jetta and Dunn turned it around later in their careers.

If Grimes, Bail, Jones and McKenzie can't hit the side of a barn at 24+, having played football their whole lives, then they don't suddenly learn how to kick at 25 or 27. If you can't do the basics well then you don't have a future.

Jetta and Dunn had very different issues to the players you've mentioned. Jetta's issues were injury/suspension and never getting a consistent run. Dunn's issue was never being allowed to settle into a position. Bail, Jones, Grimes, Terlich and McKenzie simply can't kick, and this can't be fixed.

tricky one

it has to be said that Jetta was very close to being gone forever and there were very, very few words of protest written about it on Demonland. His mate Bennell was the same except he actually WAS chucked, much to the benefit of MethCoke

Jamar is another one who was a horrific footballer for about 6 years before doing anything. Writing players off is a dangerous game, has to be deferred to the experts in the box IMO