Can we change the thread title to 'DONT stop the Jack Watts trade'?

I wonder if we had of traded Sylvia when he still had some hope & potential left whether we would've got more than band 3 compo like we did? Further, if he had've been traded at 22/3 years old he might've turned it around enough to have cracked into a top 4 club in what should be the prime of his career. He wanted to stay too until he decided he'd had enough........

Just saying, it can be best for both parties even when one of the parties may not be able to see it at a young age.

I wonder if we had of traded Sylvia when he still had some hope & potential left whether we would've got more than band 3 compo like we did? Further, if he had've been traded at 22/3 years old he might've turned it around enough to have cracked into a top 4 club in what should be the prime of his career. He wanted to stay too until he decided he'd had enough........

Just saying, it can be best for both parties even when one of the parties may not be able to see it at a young age.

Except none of these kids will get a better coach than Paul Roos....If Roosy cannot turn them around....?.

Got beaten in the air by Bennell repeatedly in one game this year ffs!!! Lol

But he's loyal, so we should just keep playing him & payin him $400k + a year for that hey??

He personifies everything I have grown frustrated with about the club since 2000. Inconsistent and a generally displays an unforgiveable lack of intensity around the contest. Trade him and draft a player who attacks the footy and the man

He personifies everything I have been frustrated with about the club in my time as a supporter, but which started creeping back in around 1996ish; & has gotten much worse since around 2005......

then we go out & recruit the likes of morton bennell cook gysberts, wattage............ all mice boys who juzz wanna have fun.......... no wonder wonna & others, never came good.

I doubt Demonland would survive the loss of jack Watts!

Except none of these kids will get a better coach than Paul Roos....If Roosy cannot turn them around....?.

US

the Whole Culture - but it really is the leadership and the culture and the transformation of the footy club hopefully that will take place that excites me the most."

Would be very annoyed if the rumoured Trengove deal was to occur, but as for Watts think it best for both parties.

Yes Jack has the potential to be an "A" grader, but I can't see any coach being able to turn him around and unfortunately for Jack - (a lovely guy who is brilliant with fans) - Dr Chan was murdered by some scum on the streets of Sydney too long ago to help.

I trust you're not in the "don't trade Trengove, he's way too loyal" camp, CBF.

There are shades of grey in this world. If perceived loyalty (did he stay or did he go?) were the only criteria involved here then yes, I wouldn't be for trading Jack. I might also mention that one Jack W was on the Footy Show as late as last year publicly musing whether he would stay at the club at all so let's not pretend that he was always going to stay no matter what. I am going to explain my logic behind trading Watts via two criteria: output/opportunity and unfair burdens placed on the player by the club.

Let's start with the first criteria that I judge this on: output and opportunity.

Jack W has had 4 mostly unimpeded years in the ones (save Neeld dumping him). We have a body of work that we can judge him on. I will grant you that 2 of those years were under a coach that he was butting heads with but the year just gone was the one that concerned me the most.

He had a coach who clearly was supportive of him all year in 2014.There were no public denunciations or critical utterings by the coach. No faux punishments such as one week stints at Casey. Yet if you watched that game against the Lions at Etihad and you watched Jack's intensity away from the ball, you would tear your hair out. That level of intensity garnered has what was just a middling year. Last year was supposed to be the year Jack started to prove the critics wrong. For mine, he didn't.

Now, let's contrast that to Jack T. Jack T has had all of last year out. There is a likelihood that the stress fractures in his feet have been more of an ongoing issue than we were lead to believe (wasn't the cream that Dan Bates was trying to source from Stephen Dank designed to help with stress fractures in his feet?).

The next criteria that I look at this from is (and it sadly is quite valid when talking about our club) the unfair burdens that were placed on both of them.

I truly believe that the start of Jack W's career was horribly mismanaged. I hear of how he was introduced on QB and still shake my head. In addition to this, I reckon it's been a bit disappointing to see he hasn't been allowed to settle into one position. Let's also remember as well that the start of his career was five years ago. The biggest dump the club took on Jack W is long gone and all the characters involved have been moved on.

Let's now look at the situation with Trenners. The poor kid has had the captaincy dumped on him WAY too early (and has probably set his career back a year or two) for what I can gather was to sideline the anti Schwab/Connolly faction in the leadership group. I went over the injury before but it could also be argued that it too was mismanaged/misdiagnosed and may have resulted in 2 substandard years and one missed year. Then, he was thrown into the ASADA debacle by having a club doctor refer him to a bloke who we have since found out is more dodgy than a used car salesman with scoliosis. After he has spent a year getting his foot right so he can actually get back to the physical conditioning that would allow him to play, he then gets his name thrown out on the AFL website as trade bait. Remember that all this has happened in the 3 years. There has been no grace period or let up up until now.

I should also add that he too was not making public pronouncements at the end of 2011 and his name was never linked with another club. Unlike Jack W, he truly never entertained the concept of leaving.

This is not a punishment/reward scenario where we get to pour our scorn on Jack Watts. I believe in Jack's case that he would actually thrive elsewhere. It's not just going to be here. Send him somewhere where he doesn't have to be 'the MAN' and I would say that you will see the best of him. He has become too settled in his ways at Melbourne for mine and nothing will change for the better if he does stay. I would think the Suns in this sense would be ideal: not an AFL market and no one is going to mistake him for Gary Ablett junior in terms of class. He can be a spare parts man initially until he is ready to blossom.

I will finish with this proposal: say that Jack T does get back in time for round 1 next year after a full preseason (which sounds unlikely at this stage) and plays 22 underwhelming games. Would I be up for trading Trenners still? I would say yes as the first criteria I considered this trade on was fulfilled (opportunity and output). However, without that criteria to measure him on and when coupled up with the second criteria, it would seem poor form to trade Jack T and disloyal as he hasn't had a chance to show what he can do.

I wanted him gone this time last year. To me he is another Sylvia - talented but rarely brings his best on game day. And I have no idea what his real position should be. He's been tried everywhere and never looked like he belonged in any of them.

I would just like to say at this point that Jack has been demonstrably loyal to the club over the years.

Totes loyal

Got beaten in the air by Bennell repeatedly in one game this year ffs!!! Lol

But he's loyal, so we should just keep playing him & payin him $400k + a year for that hey??

Was at the game and steam was coming out of my ears, Bennell outmuscled him on occasion and went harder to the contest, that is saying something because I don't rate Bennell as a hard or strong player who is willing to put his body on the line

US

the Whole Culture - but it really is the leadership and the culture and the transformation of the footy club hopefully that will take place that excites me the most."

NO DL.....The Players...

I would just like to say at this point that Jack has been demonstrably loyal to the club over the years.

I'd be the most loyal bloke ever to Melbourne if they signed me, because I'd know I wouldn't get a game at any other club!

It's nice that Watts is loyal but I think we've been just as loyal back to him. He had everything a player could've wanted this year and didn't provide any return.

NO DL.....The Players...

Don't get this ball rolling again WYL. We will be back talking about the social club again before you know it...

Don't get this ball rolling again WYL. We will be back talking about the social club again before you know it...

I know Col, But Roos is not paid to motivate Me or you!!!

FFS

Was at the game and steam was coming out of my ears, Bennell outmuscled him on occasion and went harder to the contest, that is saying something because I don't rate Bennell as a hard or strong player who is willing to put his body on the line

bennell just needs the right matchups, they got it right that day.

I know Col, But Roos is not paid to motivate Me or you!!!

FFS

actually WYL, your quite wrong, surprisingly

actually WYL, your quite wrong, surprisingly

Tune down your Meds DL....please...

Would be very annoyed if the rumoured Trengove deal was to occur, but as for Watts think it best for both parties.

Yes Jack has the potential to be an "A" grader, but I can't see any coach being able to turn him around and unfortunately for Jack - (a lovely guy who is brilliant with fans) - Dr Chan was murdered by some scum on the streets of Sydney too long ago to help.

He is our tin man?

Roos' ego backed himself to turn Watts into an A-Grade midfielder. He looked at our list of early draft picks and said, "hmmm, these boys just need guidance with a proper coach to realise their full potential."

Then this year happened. Roos had a rude reality check of what he was actually dealing with. He doesn't work in the midfield because he jogs instead of runs. He doesn't work in the forward line because his leads are terrible and he only scores when he happens to be in the right place at the right time. He doesn't work in the back line because he's terrified of body contact (a basketballer at heart).

Take out the fact he was pick one and judge him purely on his efforts, like he were any other footballer. If Roos can't awaken this supposed 'deep, untapped talent', nobody can.

I know Col, But Roos is not paid to motivate Me or you!!!

FFS

I would think as the head of this clubs on field performance & lead media personality/'face of the club', he's here fire up everyone involved in the MFC. PJ certainly put him up as a beacon of hope for us supporters!

I would think as the head of this clubs on field performance & lead media personality/'face of the club', he's here fire up everyone involved in the MFC. PJ certainly put him up as a beacon of hope for us supporters!

Yes but the core of that is the players....They are the engine...If the players are not winning, all else will fail

eg. 2007-13

Yes but the core of that is the players....They are the engine...If the players are not winning, all else will fail

eg. 2007-13

Yeah good point, we start winning the rest takes care of itself also, or at least has every chance to. Roosy's b&f speech I think set the tone for whatever we're about to attempt this trade period.

Yes but the core of that is the players....They are the engine...If the players are not winning, all else will fail

eg. 2007-13

Yes and no. If what goes on off the field is in order, it is easier to hold the players accountable. It's not surprising that the myriad of off field disasters we have had since 2008 onwards has coincided with some of the worst football I have had the displeasure of watching.

That's not to say we are cruising towards a flag now but it is refreshing that we can mostly focus on the actual on field product now instead of talking about botched jokes in the vault, 500,000 dollar home loans, sponsorship deals given to cowboy capitalist who spend too much time on social media and designer blazers for the players.