On 12/09/2014 at 02:16, Machsy said:

I think there's a distinct lack of class in those who openly doubt Clark, and a propensity to be blinded by their allegiances.

The situation at its most basic, with emotion removed:

- one of the best 3 players at a poor club with great expectations placed upon him, also due to his salary

- attempting to make a longshot recovery from clinical depression and chronic niggling soft tissue injuries

- the opportunity to go to a club where he won't be expected to drag it out of the mire

- being somewhere the focus will be on many others to perform and the pressure of winning won't be placed upon him

- he's a bloke suffering from depression trying to get his life back on track and probably would have expected more compassion, and dare I say it, he may have got that at a club where the supporters weren't so chronically tormented

- also hasn't made any statement about jumping ship, but is being roundly criticised based on conjecture

- has not tried to jump ship leaving MFC with nothing, and would presumably be keen to ensure we get fair compensation, or would have been before the tide of vitriol from shallow thinkers

What about the amazing sense of fulfilment and self-worth he would feel from helping us get better. Surely that possibility might be worth considering for him. Not to mention the guilt of leaving a club he's promised to play for.

Now Prickly Mick is weighing in on the debate. I presume he doesn't want Bucks to be gifted a clunking 2nd tall in his forward half.

He is right. Let's play hardball. First round pick or try your luck with St.Kilda, Melbourne, Dogs etc.... via the draft.

  On 12/09/2014 at 02:55, TGR said:

Now Prickly Mick is weighing in on the debate. I presume he doesn't want Bucks to be gifted a clunking 2nd tall in his forward half.

What did he have to say?

  On 12/09/2014 at 02:16, Machsy said:

I think there's a distinct lack of class in those who openly doubt Clark, and a propensity to be blinded by their allegiances.

The situation at its most basic, with emotion removed:

- one of the best 3 players at a poor club with great expectations placed upon him, also due to his salary

- attempting to make a longshot recovery from clinical depression and chronic niggling soft tissue injuries

- the opportunity to go to a club where he won't be expected to drag it out of the mire

- being somewhere the focus will be on many others to perform and the pressure of winning won't be placed upon him

- he's a bloke suffering from depression trying to get his life back on track and probably would have expected more compassion, and dare I say it, he may have got that at a club where the supporters weren't so chronically tormented

- also hasn't made any statement about jumping ship, but is being roundly criticised based on conjecture

- has not tried to jump ship leaving MFC with nothing, and would presumably be keen to ensure we get fair compensation, or would have been before the tide of vitriol from shallow thinkers

If you think he won't cop heaps of pressure at another club, you're wrong.

Going to another club will intensify the attention on him, supporters of said club will complain if he doesn't perform, as no doubt he'll go to the highest bidder and get paid well. Supporters of rival clubs and Melbourne supporters will be very unkind to him for defecting in the face of everything we've done for him.

Leaving to another club might give him the fresh start he desires, but it absolutely will not reduce the pressure on him.

Melbourne supporters are much more likely to be understanding if he struggles for form, than any other club that presumably has done their due diligence on him and chose to pay him overs.

  On 11/09/2014 at 23:16, timD said:

I treat people with depression every day and have done so for a while now. I have heard in the media this idea that the only way to recover from depression is to leave the context in which it has arisen - to completely change one's environment. Let me guarantee everyone that this is obnoxiously stupid. If Mitch has been advised to do that - and his agent confirmed that he had - then he is being poorly treated to say the least.

IF the advice is more nuanced, then I can understand it, to a point. What I would like to say is that much of the issue with depression is the internalised stuff - and changing environments may well do little to alter that. Depression is episodic. Most people recover. A significant proportion are vulnerable to relapse, but that can be managed too in many cases. Especially if you have the financial resources and supports that Mitch has. I've been curious from day one about this and nothing is reassuring me about this situation atm.

Not sure if you read Demonland Mitch, but if you do you could do worse than take a peek at this post!

  On 12/09/2014 at 02:58, Jaded said:

If you think he won't cop heaps of pressure at another club, you're wrong.

Going to another club will intensify the attention on him, supporters of said club will complain if he doesn't perform, as no doubt he'll go to the highest bidder and get paid well. Supporters of rival clubs and Melbourne supporters will be very unkind to him for defecting in the face of everything we've done for him.

Leaving to another club might give him the fresh start he desires, but it absolutely will not reduce the pressure on him.

Melbourne supporters are much more likely to be understanding if he struggles for form, than any other club that presumably has done their due diligence on him and chose to pay him overs.

Very well said. I think MFC supporters have been impressively supportive of Mitch throughout, and nobody minded when he chose to retire because we all agreed his health was paramount. Footy is just footy, even if it was heartbreaking to see the club on the receiving end of horrendous luck... again.

Now he's going to a club where their supporters demanded of their president a "fan forum" to discuss what the hell was wrong, because they missed finals? Apparently that's a tragedy of Titanic proportions if you're a Colonwood supporter (imagine if they endured what we have!) So Mitch wants to put himself in that environment? The spite coming from their supporters will be ten times worse if he can't get on the field, and even worse if he doesn't perform. Would love to know what your doctor thinks about the risk/benefit ratio of that decision.

I'm with the above. If they try to screw us with a trade, bugger him. Send him to the PSD and he can suffer at the Saints and 2 years of wooden spoons before looking for his next pay cheque. And if they pass and we ignore him, he can languish in the GWS seconds for the rest of his career, because they won't pass him up.

  On 09/09/2014 at 03:57, dpositive said:

Another consideration is workers comp based

Any reoccurrence of an injury illness even at a new employer reverts to the original claim

1) that is completely incorrect it's actually the opposite of what you say

2) footy players or other athletes aren't covered by normal workers comp laws anyway

come on ppl, lets get this thread to 150 pages

  On 12/09/2014 at 01:56, Django said:

Was this wide spread or was it just suggested by someone on Demonland? I didn't hear anything about that

This was reported in one of the daily papers yesterday

  On 11/09/2014 at 23:16, timD said:

I treat people with depression every day and have done so for a while now. I have heard in the media this idea that the only way to recover from depression is to leave the context in which it has arisen - to completely change one's environment. Let me guarantee everyone that this is obnoxiously stupid. If Mitch has been advised to do that - and his agent confirmed that he had - then he is being poorly treated to say the least.

IF the advice is more nuanced, then I can understand it, to a point. What I would like to say is that much of the issue with depression is the internalised stuff - and changing environments may well do little to alter that. Depression is episodic. Most people recover. A significant proportion are vulnerable to relapse, but that can be managed too in many cases. Especially if you have the financial resources and supports that Mitch has. I've been curious from day one about this and nothing is reassuring me about this situation atm.

as a person who has his own issues, I questioned at the time whether the decision run away and retire (instead of facing his problems head-on) was at all wise or at all brave, for which of course I was howled at by 90% of this forum. I'm still wondeing what type of advice he has been getting, or to what extent what we have been fed about said advice is pure fabrication. All very very fishy for mine.

  On 12/09/2014 at 00:32, Roost It said:

It's quite likely Roos sees him as too big a risk,

The AFL wont let him walk to any club he wants. Trading will have to be done

We have pick 2

Frawley gives us pick 3

Clark will either play for us or we'll trade him to another club Pick around number 15

If we go into the draft/trading period with picks 2,3,15,20 then we are every chance to land 2 excellent midfielders, a half back and a key big man such as Frost.

Personally for the first time in years I feel the club is well enough managed to do very well out of the coming 2 drafts and start to push up the ladder

Just not sure I care anyway.

this^^^

  On 12/09/2014 at 03:56, Curry & Beer said:

as a person who has his own issues, I questioned at the time whether the decision run away and retire (instead of facing his problems head-on) was at all wise or at all brave, for which of course I was howled at by 90% of this forum. I'm still wondeing what type of advice he has been getting, or to what extent what we have been fed about said advice is pure fabrication. All very very fishy for mine.

As a person who has had some experience with people with the illness and people treating the illness the only certainty is you will get a plethora of different opinions from health professionals on what they consider the best approach to treating depression.

  On 12/09/2014 at 00:47, DemonOX said:

The more interest in MC the better it is for us when it comes to a trade.

Bring it on.

Agreed. We should be flogging highlights videos all over the media and social media

  On 12/09/2014 at 02:50, mdemonski2 said:

No chance in hell we would get 15 for Clark in a trade.

More likely to get a comp pick at end or mid first round than a trade.

but it appears that an afl compo pick is not one one of the possible outcomes - this is not a free agency deal nor a deal involving a brand new expansion club. It's a club-to-club trade

  On 12/09/2014 at 04:01, nutbean said:

As a person who has had some experience with people with the illness and people treating the illness the only certainty is you will get a plethora of different opinions from health professionals on what they consider the best approach to treating depression.

I predicted he would look back with regret from walking away from a privileged gift of a life he was handed. I was trashed for it.

Well apparently I was dead right. Few months on the sofa watching footy and he's realised 'WTF am I doing?'

Nice advice huh

  On 12/09/2014 at 04:08, Curry & Beer said:

but it appears that an afl compo pick is not one one of the possible outcomes - this is not a free agency deal nor a deal involving a brand new expansion club. It's a club-to-club trade

If we're offered peanuts in a trade and decide to let him walk to the PSD on principal, the AFL will compensate us. There's a reason Roos is being so coy about it.

Mentioning that he's expecting pick 3 for Frawley also indicates the AFL are looking out for us. The club has inquired about what we're likely to receive depending on a multitude of outcomes, so if Roos expects pick 3 it's for good reason.

  On 12/09/2014 at 04:17, Lamashtu said:

If we're offered peanuts in a trade and decide to let him walk to the PSD on principal, the AFL will compensate us. There's a reason Roos is being so coy about it.

Mentioning that he's expecting pick 3 for Frawley also indicates the AFL are looking out for us. The club has inquired about what we're likely to receive depending on a multitude of outcomes, so if Roos expects pick 3 it's for good reason.

Not being argumentative for the sake of it, but you are drawing a lot of speculation based on very little there. The AFL has helped us in recent history, but - if we elect to play hardball and he goes to the PSD, surely that's just our bad luck, how is it different from any other club breaking down negotiations with one of their players

The market (as in other clubs' trades) should dictate the value of the player, he is a a high risk/reward venture, I reckon a couple of clubs will pony up a something around 15-25 for him.. which is a decent result for us. Particularly as there is a good chance Roos will convert it into established quality imports

Would be a handy addition to the team in 2015!

If able to return to form.

PS music on these clips is woefull.

  On 12/09/2014 at 00:32, Roost It said:

It's quite likely Roos sees him as too big a risk,

I doubt that very much. Apart from taking up a spot on the list, there is nothing to lose from Clark being on our list in 2015. Even if the comeback didn't work.

  On 12/09/2014 at 04:01, nutbean said:

As a person who has had some experience with people with the illness and people treating the illness the only certainty is you will get a plethora of different opinions from health professionals on what they consider the best approach to treating depression.

I agree, and all opinions are not created equal.

  On 12/09/2014 at 02:58, Jaded said:

If you think he won't cop heaps of pressure at another club, you're wrong.

Going to another club will intensify the attention on him, supporters of said club will complain if he doesn't perform, as no doubt he'll go to the highest bidder and get paid well. Supporters of rival clubs and Melbourne supporters will be very unkind to him for defecting in the face of everything we've done for him.

Leaving to another club might give him the fresh start he desires, but it absolutely will not reduce the pressure on him.

Melbourne supporters are much more likely to be understanding if he struggles for form, than any other club that presumably has done their due diligence on him and chose to pay him overs.

I don't necessarily agree with the train of thought that going to another club would work, but I also don't begrudge him the chance to give it a try.

I think he's a long shot to make it, and the hatred is unwarranted.

He'd also be under pressure anywhere, but I believe much much more at MFC.

  On 12/09/2014 at 05:13, Machsy said:

I don't necessarily agree with the train of thought that going to another club would work, but I also don't begrudge him the chance to give it a try.

I think he's a long shot to make it, and the hatred is unwarranted.

He'd also be under pressure anywhere, but I believe much much more at MFC.

I think what different people perceive as pressure varies from one person to the next. What Mitch feels to be pressure, what kind of pressure depresses him, etc... are all questions that Mitch is yet to explore with the public.

And even the idea that pressure is at the heart of any decision he might have made to leave the MFC is speculation.

One could just as easily argue that there would be less pressure at the MFC than another club...

  On 12/09/2014 at 04:43, Sylvia Saint said:

I doubt that very much. Apart from taking up a spot on the list, there is nothing to lose from Clark being on our list in 2015. Even if the comeback didn't work.

I know what you mean, but he may well because of his circumstances consume more back of house resources which could interfere with the development and well-being of the rest of the squad. If that was the sole risk, though, it would be one I'd be prepared to take if I thought he had any chance of returning to the field.

  On 12/09/2014 at 05:19, PaulRB said:

I think what different people perceive as pressure varies from one person to the next. What Mitch feels to be pressure, what kind of pressure depresses him, etc... are all questions that Mitch is yet to explore with the public.

And even the idea that pressure is at the heart of any decision he might have made to leave the MFC is speculation.

One could just as easily argue that there would be less pressure at the MFC than another club...

Should he have to explore them in the public?

Personally, my guess is that he put a lot of pressure on himself, to be a star performer and a saviour of this club, and in conjunction with pressure from the outside and repeated setbacks making him feel a failure, it broke him.

I don't think that pressure will go away.

And I don't think pressure to that magnitude would be on him at another club in the top 8.

If he's to go to St Kilda as rumoured, I'd be surprised, but that would be his choice.

Even there, less would be expected, from outside and from within Clark's brain box.

You're correct that it's speculation, but so is anything else.

And I think the palpable nastiness is not fair, when based purely on speculation.

Football is an emotional game with ongoing demands and moments of extreme pressure. Managing and coping with injuries is part of the challenge most players face.

Fans are encouraged by club and players alike to get emotionally attached to the team and the players. Players play this game with many activities from PR, signing balls to connecting and celebrating with the crowd when they score. Mitch Clark bought into this fan seduction game totally, No# 11 on his back, leader of club, face of hope at the MFC...

He then struggled with injuries and then the black dog bit. The fans and club gathered sympathetically around him and supported him, even to the point of accepting he was lost to us and the game.

For Mitch to come back and easily disavow himself of these emotional ties and obligations was naive and ill-advised.

He does not owe the public an explanation, he owes those who's support he lent on (and it seems led on) these past couple of years an explanation. The lack of such an honest explanation created the space for us to assume the worst and project these fears with anger onto Mitch.

Agree many should tone it down, but it's hardly a surprise, and Mitch needs to bear a fair amount of responsibility for the hurt he's generated (generating).