robbie13..it will take 2-3 years to get our team HAPPENING in a week in week out purposeful manner. What do we do with Jack...just wait ?

Theres the notion of moving walkways and the most effective way to get from A to B is to change walkways as they change their speed, thereby always being on the most advantageous one at that particular time and opportunity.

The best value , for me , from Jack is what he may bring to the trade table.. If nothing else its also the most fair thing for him. No ones winning presently. Only change , will change !!

Peoples infatuation with Watts is scary, from both inside (us as supporters) and outside the club (Media etc...)

The team as a whole was responsible for what happened out there on the weekend. Every single player including our 'untouchables' has a responsibility in part for what happened. Jones, Tyson, Viney etc. They were all out there on the day, none of the players should be spared... yet we still seem to love hanging things on Watts, cos having a target to throw mud at makes it somehow easier?

Watts and the 'effort' blowtorch that is applied to him every week, to me is more often than not a symptom of how the team is playing rather than the cause.

Anyway, back to the slagging off!

Keep, he's hardly our worst player, and we won't get much for him if we do trade him.

Trade.

I like the guy, but we are in the trenches - and we need fighters.

When we get to the top of the hill, Jack would be great - give him a sniper rifle and let him pot blokes off as they come.

I'll want to be fighting alongside Jack Vineys and Nathan Jones' when I'm stuck in the trenches.

I voted to keep and "reprogram" him. Sadly, he's actually one of our best players which says more about the rest of the list than it says about Watts.

He needs to be "reprogrammed" in two ways. First, he needs his body built up further, particularly around the hips, so he can keep his feet better and perform better in contested situations. And secondly, he needs time with a sports psychologist, not just to instil desire into the way he goes about his football but also to help him appreciate his skills and not worry so much about what everybody else says about him. It can't be helping him that he keeps reading and hearing about how he hasn't lived up to expectations.

And I would play him on the wing. Our biggest failing this year has been the final delivery into the forward 50. He is the most skillful player in the team and more likely to spot up Dawes, Hogan, etc than any other player.

Trade.

I like the guy, but we are in the trenches - and we need fighters.

When we get to the top of the hill, Jack would be great - give him a sniper rifle and let him pot blokes off as they come.

I'll want to be fighting alongside Jack Vineys and Nathan Jones' when I'm stuck in the trenches.

Need a few sniper types too though

I voted to keep and "reprogram" him. Sadly, he's actually one of our best players which says more about the rest of the list than it says about Watts.

He needs to be "reprogrammed" in two ways. First, he needs his body built up further, particularly around the hips, so he can keep his feet better and perform better in contested situations. And secondly, he needs time with a sports psychologist, not just to instil desire into the way he goes about his football but also to help him appreciate his skills and not worry so much about what everybody else says about him. It can't be helping him that he keeps reading and hearing about how he hasn't lived up to expectations.

And I would play him on the wing. Our biggest failing this year has been the final delivery into the forward 50. He is the most skillful player in the team and more likely to spot up Dawes, Hogan, etc than any other player.

If he were to stay ...yes to pretty much all.A winger for sure and tell him to back himself and use his pace. I would also sens him for some 1 on 1 with our co -tenants and Im not talking the round ball lot !!

If he were to stay. I'd still trade him, but I concur with your sentiments.

Erghhh. Look, he is a nice guy but I'm just so over making excuses for him..

When nicnat and hurley were turning it on in his first year and he wasn't, it was because he was a year younger than them..

Then it was "He needs to add some muscle. He's too small to play key position."

Then it was his development coaches aren't doing it for him.

When he started struggling as a back flanker "He's a natural forward, he is being played out of position."

What bugs me the most is this guy is getting paid a ridiculous amount of money to do something so many other people would kill for. I caught the bus to uni this morning and tonight I'm stacking shelves at safeway so I can afford to go to uni in hope of one day getting a job that pays a fraction of what he gets a year. I don't understand how players can play with such little heart/urgency when they are so privileged. Maybe Jack should spend the Summer laying bricks or something so he can understand how lucky he is

It just isn't working for either party. Time to go.

x2

I was in the keep camp, and I know there are only 75 odd votes so far, however on the basis of the ongoing chat we see about it I'm shocked 'keep' is winning out here!

At this stage he's not the one to get it happening, fair enough. But once it is happening, he will be valuable above most others - put it in his hands enough times and his clinical accuracy will seriously advance our cause.

We don't use him properly, and it does look like his confidence is suffering. But MFC is currently in extreme disfunction, and if the rest of the team can't pick things up, well, what happens to the MFC won't be Jack's fault.

He still leads and gets ignored. Why, when if he gets the ball it's on its way somewhere useful almost every time? How come he hasn't been instructed to go for home, rather than backwards? He doesn't need a free target the size of the side of a barn, like half the rest of the team...

He hasn't put on any upper body bulk yet, but most people eventually do. He's very thin, looked at side on. What happens to his physical impact if he gets a better balanced torso? I believe it may happen. Some take longer, and if he turns out to be bigger in a year or two, we could regret losing faith when we were rattled by everything else.

Very little is going well. I think we have to focus on upside, and he really has it in spades, in some areas. More than can be said for a big number on our list.

I remember him playing well, in games where others were not. Last year when he got votes we won. Against St Kilda round one this year, we saw some wonderful signs. I have seen his pace a few times, and it does exist. Like the whole club, his confidence is badly down at the moment, but I believe he has shown character over the journey.

Sums up my own thoughts nicely. Jack really isn't the problem and removing him from our side isn't going to helps up at all. Once we start to improve and he has more support he will be a very valuable player. Right now he's still young and got plenty of development in him and a body to continue to build.

I said keep and I am happy to switch to trade if someone can confirm to me the following:

a) Does he do boxing sessions once weekly already to overcome his fears?

b) Is he called aside at training sessions weekly to do a specialist tackling session to try and get him to actually enjoy tackling, rather than fearing it.

My suspicion is that he does neither of these two things weekly and as a result there is hope that his talent is not completely wasted.

I think Roosy needs to motivate him to take on these as extra sessions and to take pride in his ability and have some arrogance on the field.

At the moment everyone knows he's a nice guy who's soft - Bump him and he'll make way, Run hard off him and he won't chase.

At the moment everyone knows he's a nice guy who's soft - Bump him and he'll make way, Run hard off him and he won't chase.

yep, got me sold !!!

I'm now in the trade camp.

If you can stomach it, watch the GWS game again. His lethargy at times is...amazing. He will jog when he is within 5-10 metres of an opponent.

He simply will not or can not apply real pressure. He can't win a contested ball. He can't keep his feet. There is so much that he can't do, but when he has time he will occasionally make a nice pass or a kick nice goal that rubs out everything else? Nah, doesn't work that way.

He needs a new start under a new system. He has to go.

Further to what I said earlier:

People have commented this season that Watts has changed as a player and is on the way up. He had a couple of impressive games early in the year but truth be told, he has hardly improved. This seems to be his consistent pattern, like many before him.

Play a couple of good games early on, people begin to think he's turned the corner but then his season goes to garbage as his mental strength is exposed. I'm trying to not get personal here but I think it is clear when you see him on field that Jack Watts lacks the mental strength and fortitude required to make it as a player in the AFL.

For the record, I was pro-Watts for a long time, but this has gone on for far too long.

What's the point in trading him ? We'd get a second round pick, somewhere between 20-30.. He has more potential than a kid in that range. We might be lucky to pick up a jack darling but we could also pick up a blease, strauss, maric with that pick. It's not worth it, we've invested too much time into him. His harshly judged by melbourne supporters, I admit some of his efforts are [censored] weak but there another 15-20 players on the list who do a hell of a lot the same if not worse .. His a soft target for supporters to get stuck into. Roos will get him right.. We only need to look at that 3rd qrt VS port a few weeks back he was instrumental in getting us back into the game. The penny will drop eventually

We need to improve the list. This can be incremental and /or wholesale as ability to , and opportunities present.

A lot of those who apologise for Watts will continually point and deflect elsewhere as a defence. What about this bloke, or that. He's not the only one etc etc etc.

How about we just focus on Jack here and understand what HIS worth is to this side going forward. If he needs to be continually propped up or 'catered' to then thats just garbage especially at AFL . Sometimes I wonder , if he played any more "outside' hed be sitting next to me in the stand !!

Watts for Armitage would be a great trade.

I was disappointed when Roosy convinced him to stay at the end of last season.

Honestly would have loved to see the back of him then and his currency would have been greater.

I think the rest of the footy world can now see that regardless of his place in the draft he isn't AFL standard. Physically and mentally not up to it.

What's the point in trading him ? We'd get a second round pick, somewhere between 20-30.. He has more potential than a kid in that range. We might be lucky to pick up a jack darling but we could also pick up a blease, strauss, maric with that pick. It's not worth it, we've invested too much time into him. His harshly judged by melbourne supporters, I admit some of his efforts are [censored] weak but there another 15-20 players on the list who do a hell of a lot the same if not worse .. His a soft target for supporters to get stuck into. Roos will get him right.. We only need to look at that 3rd qrt VS port a few weeks back he was instrumental in getting us back into the game. The penny will drop eventually

What the hell is potential worth if it never develops? Absolutely nothing.

Oh god, the delusion when it comes to this guy just goes on and on and on..

Just face it. The penny isn't dropping and is showing little sign of dropping. I was one of the ones saying "the penny will drop" 3 years ago when the same arguments were being had about him. He isn't just an easy target. His lazy efforts do stick out as being particularly worse than others. Is he just unfit? Who knows. But he can't compete.

Players like Watts--types who easily get outmuscled and have no appetitie for the contest--are not what we need in our position. We are a decade away from being in a position where Jack Watts would be a nice to have. He could well go to a top team and become a contributor. We are not a top team. We need 22 gut running soldiers if we are to ever get out of this god forsaken hole.

I don't want to bash him and I'm sick to death of talking about him. I like him as a person and I still cheer when he does something worth cheering for. But the same issues aren't being rectified. They're arguably worsening. The change is surely needed in the interests of his own career, not just the interests of the club.

A late first round or early second round and it should be taken. Another year like this one and we really will get nothing for him.

We need to improve the list. This can be incremental and /or wholesale as ability to , and opportunities present.

A lot of those who apologise for Watts will continually point and deflect elsewhere as a defence. What about this bloke, or that. He's not the only one etc etc etc.

How about we just focus on Jack here and understand what HIS worth is to this side going forward. If he needs to be continually propped up or 'catered' to then thats just garbage especially at AFL . Sometimes I wonder , if he played any more "outside' hed be sitting next to me in the stand !!

This is the issue that I have with the thread.

I don't have a problem with having a thread like this if you are going to create one for every single player on the list. You are saying that people here are deferring and deflecting, but you are making a thread just about Watts which again in my opinion is unfairly focussing purely on one player and making things about him and his worth purely.

To be perfectly honest, whilst I said keep, I have no issue with whatever the list management team chose to do with ANY of our players, we know we have to improve the list a lot, and we are going to have to sacrifice some players/picks in order to achieve this. What I do have an issue with is the apparent infatuation with Watts and the notion that trading or keeping him will apparently single handedly make the team better / worse.

IF we trade Watts at the end of the year, whoever picks him up is going to be laughing all the way to the bank, and we are going to have to put up with muppets in the media telling us that trading Watts was a stupid move and that the MFC have committed the biggest mistake since drafting him in the first place.

This is the issue that I have with the thread.

I don't have a problem with having a thread like this if you are going to create one for every single player on the list. You are saying that people here are deferring and deflecting, but you are making a thread just about Watts which again in my opinion is unfairly focussing purely on one player and making things about him and his worth purely.

To be perfectly honest, whilst I said keep, I have no issue with whatever the list management team chose to do with ANY of our players, we know we have to improve the list a lot, and we are going to have to sacrifice some players/picks in order to achieve this. What I do have an issue with is the apparent infatuation with Watts and the notion that trading or keeping him will apparently single handedly make the team better / worse.

IF we trade Watts at the end of the year, whoever picks him up is going to be laughing all the way to the bank, and we are going to have to put up with muppets in the media telling us that trading Watts was a stupid move and that the MFC have committed the biggest mistake since drafting him in the first place.

what ?? Thats the whole bloody point !!!

Of course its a thread about a single player. Its "A PLAYER" thats traded or whatever

edit ...hardly unfair... any player can be focused upon. The interest however is Watts

what ?? Thats the whole bloody point !!!

Of course its a thread about a single player. Its "A PLAYER" thats traded or whatever

edit ...hardly unfair... any player can be focused upon. The interest however is Watts

I know it's about Watts, my issue is the constant 'interest' in Watts

That there is a perception amongst so many people that this one player seems to be the cause of the problems we are currently experiencing is the point I am making.

Was Watts any better or worse than perhaps a dozen or so players out there on the weekend? if not ... why are we creating yet another thread about him.

What the hell is potential worth if it never develops? Absolutely nothing.

All I'm saying is I'd rather keep watts then go to the draft with a mid range 2nd round pick, god knows what will get with that. The kids 23, played in one of the worst sides in the history of the game over his career. His 3 or 4 years off his prime football..