Do coffees get included in the salary cap?

Free Agency a shocker for lowly clubs like the Dees.

FA will hurt poorly run clubs.

Well run clubs can turn Sylvia into Vince with FA's help.

There's so much more to be said about this Frawley issue.

There are complexities to it that supporters seem to just brush over.

But as Ron has already pointed out, it's almost pointless to elaborate on such issues as the general Demonland populous seem to continuously spit out the, 'OMG Frawley has every right to explore FA...' (Add any other cliche you like).

Which isn't the [censored] point.

From a players perspective it is exactly the point. The point you seem to be missing.

Many here continually want to view the perspective only from the supporters view and continually refuse to put themselves in the players shoes. We see the treatment of Junior by our club and others that have been traded out or delisted without too much conscience. I read these boards and see some of the vitriol towards players and in the same breath, we the supporters demand loyalty from players.

I don't like this new world of football where loyalty has little value any more than Old Dee does but I won't bury my head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. ( note - you don't do that OD)

(and you have elaborated on such issues - it is just some don't agree with you)

How is it an outworn term? FA is in its infancy.

In what context is it in it's infancy?

Everyone understands that players 'have the right to explore their options'. Everyone. Throwaway lines like that are becoming

clichèd because they're frequently repeated phrases. The very definition of the word clichéd.

And they state what everyone already knows fcs.

Why you're arguing this, I have no idea.

In what context is it in it's infancy?

Everyone understands that players 'have the right to explore their options'. Everyone. Throwaway lines like that are becoming

clichèd because they're frequently repeated phrases. The very definition of the word clichéd.

And they state what everyone already knows fcs.

Why you're arguing this, I have no idea.

You are essentially trying to diminish the rights of the players to explore their options because plenty have said the players 'have the right to explore their options.'

It isn't cliché to remind posters (or inform them) that the sports to which AFL is most aligned - NBA, NFL - allow for contracts to completely expire before they are re-signed. At both the behest of clubs and players.

I would argue the bigger clichés with regard to this Frawley situation are;

1. The club needs to know soon, for planning reasons.

2. The longer he waits, the more he is 'out the door.'

3. He has shown poor character by not telling what he is going to do.

In my line of work, if I took upon a job at a competitor, I'd hand in my four weeks notice, and would be sent on "gardening leave" for the duration of my four weeks on full pay, with my building access would be revoked. In other more "standard" jobs in the past, I'd give my four weeks notice, and spend that four weeks handing over and making sure those taking on my responsibilities were fully up to speed. In neither case would I have any reason (practically or morally) to lie to my employer.

Frawley's position is comparable to my own - sure, he'd have to go on "gardening leave" too (i.e. no longer available for selection), but it would be on full pay and won't affect his contract at his new club. It's a small price to pay for doing the right thing by your club (employer).

I agree with Redleg that it would be very low if he's signed already and is fibbing about it. I'm doubtful that it's the case anyway.

If he's truly in it for the money, why would he let the club know he's going? He would be put on 'gardening leave' which would be his full base salary, but there's every chance that his contract includes sizeable match payments and incentives for things like b&f finishes.

If his match payment is $5,000 per game (which is probably lower end of the ball park for a player of his caliber) and he has an incentive clause for finishing top 10 in the b&f ($10,000+ depending on where he finished) he could be doing himself out of $35,000+ (could be over $50,000 for a top 5 b&f finish) for telling the club he's leaving before the seasons over.

If he goes I would like to see him strike a deal that ensures we get a good comp pick ie straight after our round 1. Geelong seems to be the front runner and are notorious underpayers (as are Collingwood and to some extent Hawthorn). Frawley can protect the Dees comp pick by getting a long contract even if he accepts a lowish $ offer from a finals contention team.

BTW don't buy the Collingwood refutal based on no room in salary cap...who are they spending their money on now that Shaw, Jolley, Thomas, Didak and Maxwell are off their books. Salary cap limit = Red Herring!

Wherever Frawley goes I hope he does the right thing by the Dees comp pick.

Wherever Frawley goes I hope he does the right thing by the Dees comp pick.

Frawley will do the right thing by Frawley.

Why are we still playing him in the seniors?

Surely we are better off putting games into Georgio?

Frawley will do the right thing by Frawley.

Maybe, but I hope he isn't that shallow. Different circumstances but Judd tried hard to get WC a fair deal. Judd left with integrity in tack.

Depends how much Frawley values his integrity and standing. Shallow man with hollow words vs Man of intergrity who bleeds red and blue but leaves to get success. I can live with the latter.

I read these boards and see some of the vitriol towards players and in the same breath, we the supporters demand loyalty from players.

I don't like this new world of football where loyalty has little value any more than Old Dee does but I won't bury my head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. ( note - you don't do that OD)

That's rubbish, over sensitive rubbish. Spuds don't deserve security or a fans's loyalty. Delist them. Now. Just like that Pederson player. What a spud. Delist him. Oh wait. Not him he's not a spud any more. But delist those other spuds. Quick smart.

Bloody Frawley, disloyal bastarrd. How dare you maximize your value. You owe us. He's a spud any way. We're better off without him. Spud.

Insert joking emoticon here.

But seriously i don't understand this idea that we are in a new world of football where loyalty has little value. I would argue that it has no more or less value than it ever has. I posted about the huge movement of players 70's and 80's a few days ago. But you could add to that players moving clubs in all eras. In the 40's, 50's and 60's many a top player even moved from the VFL to the VFA and even country footy because they were offered more money.

And really clubs have always been brutal when it comes to cutting and trading players. The players want (and deserve) FA to balance this lack of loylalty from the clubs.

In fact you could argue loyalty is more highly valued now than it has ever been because there is such an emphasis these days on team building, team cohesiveness and the importance of successful team sticking together (in the name of winning of course) - for example the Cats and Lions.

If he goes I would like to see him strike a deal that ensures we get a good comp pick ie straight after our round 1. Geelong seems to be the front runner and are notorious underpayers (as are Collingwood and to some extent Hawthorn). Frawley can protect the Dees comp pick by getting a long contract even if he accepts a lowish $ offer from a finals contention team.

BTW don't buy the Collingwood refutal based on no room in salary cap...who are they spending their money on now that Shaw, Jolley, Thomas, Didak and Maxwell are off their books. Salary cap limit = Red Herring!

Wherever Frawley goes I hope he does the right thing by the Dees comp pick.

Would think that Pendlebury, Cloke and Swan are all on $700-$800+, although there are very few players demanding a high wage after those 3...

Maybe, but I hope he isn't that shallow. Different circumstances but Judd tried hard to get WC a fair deal. Judd left with integrity in tack.

Depends how much Frawley values his integrity and standing. Shallow man with hollow words vs Man of intergrity who bleeds red and blue but leaves to get success. I can live with the latter.

Except Judd sold out to the highest bidder and he went through this whole shopping expedition at various clubs. I don't blame him but it wasn't a pretty process to watch.

And really clubs have always been brutal when it comes to cutting and trading players. The players want (and deserve) FA to balance this lack of loylalty from the clubs.

In fact you could argue loyalty is more highly valued now than it has ever been because there is such an emphasis these days on team building, team cohesiveness and the importance of successful team sticking together (in the name of winning of course) - for example the Cats and Lions.

( not to mention the brutality of cutting coaches )

The loyalty equation (club vs player) has certainly been balanced with free agency - it's just that I prefer my imbalance to be on the clubs side not the players side.

Except Judd sold out to the highest bidder and he went through this whole shopping expedition at various clubs. I don't blame him but it wasn't a pretty process to watch.

And the Frawley process is pretty? At least Judd looked after WC at the same time which is all I would like from Frawley.

( not to mention the brutality of cutting coaches )

The loyalty equation (club vs player) has certainly been balanced with free agency - it's just that I prefer my imbalance to be on the clubs side not the players side.

That should give you some pause though shouldn't it?

McKenzie was offered a big contract by Adelaide but stayed in the rookie list an extra year to help out the Dees.

What a great bloke.

Some on here wouldn't bat an eyelid if he was delisted this year...

Teams want their own good players to sign a year before their contracts are up, and they keep their fringe players until they are not of use, or re-sign them at the last hour if they can't find anything better.

The more good players waiting until the end of the season to sign anywhere is progress for a league that desires to be equalised. More movement of players, more market-reality contracts, more spread of talent.

If he's truly in it for the money, why would he let the club know he's going? He would be put on 'gardening leave' which would be his full base salary, but there's every chance that his contract includes sizeable match payments and incentives for things like b&f finishes.

If his match payment is $5,000 per game (which is probably lower end of the ball park for a player of his caliber) and he has an incentive clause for finishing top 10 in the b&f ($10,000+ depending on where he finished) he could be doing himself out of $35,000+ (could be over $50,000 for a top 5 b&f finish) for telling the club he's leaving before the seasons over.

True. I hadn't considered match payments.

And the Frawley process is pretty? At least Judd looked after WC at the same time which is all I would like from Frawley.

Nope - it isn't pretty - The Frawley process is reality.

Judd looked after WC because he could demand that. He was the best player in the AFL and could command whatever he desired but there is a major difference here. Judd was being traded to another club - so he could say to his new home - give my old club 2 first rounders and your 2 best players or I wont come.

Frawley is a freeagent and can only ask one thing of his suitors - "give me more money so the MFC get band one compensation - it's not for my benefit - it's for my old clubs benefit". Right....

Should be more pressure on James now that Roos has committed to the third year - tho looks like James will go anyway.

I can't believe my own ambivalence regarding him staying or going. That is based on the draft pick we will receive for him.

There is a slim chance that we could get the first three picks in the draft. 1 Priority Pick 2 Spoon 3 Frawley Compensation

I can't believe my own ambivalence regarding him staying or going. That is based on the draft pick we will receive for him.

There is a slim chance that we could get the first three picks in the draft. 1 Priority Pick 2 Spoon 3 Frawley Compensation

I would prefer that scenerio did not take place Man dee.

I would prefer we win three of the last four so we don't finish lower than 16th and Frawley stays.

You are essentially trying to diminish the rights of the players to explore their options because plenty have said the players 'have the right to explore their options.'

It isn't cliché to remind posters (or inform them) that the sports to which AFL is most aligned - NBA, NFL - allow for contracts to completely expire before they are re-signed. At both the behest of clubs and players.

I would argue the bigger clichés with regard to this Frawley situation are;

1. The club needs to know soon, for planning reasons.

2. The longer he waits, the more he is 'out the door.'

3. He has shown poor character by not telling what he is going to do.

Your obstinate determination to swing this your way is unbelievable.

To the point where you're telling me I'm diminishing the rights of players to explore their options? Haha

I don't care which way you try and spin it RPFC. I also don't care what you believe the 'bigger cliches' to be.

The simple fact is, it's a cliched phrase. There's no more to argue.

I can't believe my own ambivalence regarding him staying or going. That is based on the draft pick we will receive for him.

There is a slim chance that we could get the first three picks in the draft. 1 Priority Pick 2 Spoon 3 Frawley Compensation

Those plicks won't let that happen.

Very interested to see what the decision of Roosy to stick around does for the Chip situation

Very interested to see what the decision of Roosy to stick around does for the Chip situation

You mean he has not signed yet!