GOODBYE MR. CHIP FRAWLEY

[daisycutter 29,604]

Sorry bruv, it was a second rounder at 23, which as you highlighted, doesn't really seem to differ in picks to a band 2, as it was after our second round pick, i wonder then would a band 2 have given us a pick after our first round?

according to this http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-18/sylvia-free-agency-compo it was a round 2 pick therefore band 3

band 1 is round 1 (after your regular round 1)

band 2 is end of round 1

band 3 is round 2 (after your regular round 2)

if you got the wooden spoon then band 2 and 3 would be "effectively" the same (depending whether there were any other band 2's that year)

[rpfc 28,263]

Ah, ok. So clearly I think we will get a "Band" 2.

Happy now? Same shite different smell in my opinion.

Now, if you don't mind, can you please go and annoy someone else? Thanks in advance.

lol

I was benignly adding the bands to the conversation.

You're welcome.

[rpfc 28,263]

Sorry bruv, it was a second rounder at 23, which as you highlighted, doesn't really seem to differ in picks to a band 2, as it was after our second round pick, i wonder then would a band 2 have given us a pick after our first round?

of course. at least suggest why you don't think so. How can anyone know what your point of view is?

Frawley has been an integral part of our team for a long time, had roos not switched things around and implemented everything he has, frawley would still be a major contributor commanding the back line.

So based on importance to current club, we should get substantial compensation for him.

I recall 'the value of the player at current club' being factored in to the compensation?

I could be wrong, but I think thats considered.

Has anyone got access to or knows where to find the compensations systems procedures?

I was more incredulous that you didn't see the references to Sylvia as Band 3 that's all.

The only thing that is factored is the new contract and the age of the player.

Frawley will return Band 1 or Band 2 - and if he signs a four year deal for $600k I think we will see Pick 4. If we don't then we will see Pick 19/20.

So either 4 or 20.

One is arguably 'overs' and the other is arguably 'unders' so I hope the benefit of the doubt goes to the team with a great need for a top 5 pick...

[Deez 298]

according to this http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-18/sylvia-free-agency-compo it was a round 2 pick therefore band 3

band 1 is round 1 (after your regular round 1)

band 2 is end of round 1

band 3 is round 2 (after your regular round 2)

if you got the wooden spoon then band 2 and 3 would be "effectively" the same (depending whether there were any other band 2's that year)

ah that clears it up, thanks dude.

I was more incredulous that you didn't see the references to Sylvia as Band 3 that's all.

The only thing that is factored is the new contract and the age of the player.

Frawley will return Band 1 or Band 2 - and if he signs a four year deal for $600k I think we will see Pick 4. If we don't then we will see Pick 19/20.

So either 4 or 20.

One is arguably 'overs' and the other is arguably 'unders' so I hope the benefit of the doubt goes to the team with a great need for a top 5 pick...

yeh, I must have misread and gave it no further thought.

I would hope its a band 1.

pick 19 or 20 would be a rip.

[What 18,810]

Nice little dream last night obviously!!

No

I didn't say id prefer him to stay, just have a feeling he will

Id rather pick 4 and the extra salary cap space to splash on a real gun

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,778]

If Frawley picks up a mystery injury in round 22 or 23, I think we all know what he'll be doing next year.

[nutbean 8,838]

Da ya reckon?? Whinny request be buggered. do you think he knows what he is doing in 2015?

If he does and goes why doesn't he say????

If he stays why doesn't he say!?

I'll tell you why because the moment he says I'm going puts the club in an interesting position selection wise!

So here's the negotiations pitch. Tell him if he stays we can do some ah creative things with his contract!

If he gives us a decision in the negative we still will play him as per normal for the rest of the year.

Win for us because we know and Roosy can start planning for next year and he still gives value on the field

Win for him because he still gets a game pending form!

Win/Win

There... and you thought all sport was full of cut throats with only selfish intentions at play!!

Negotiation skills 101.

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

I know it's not going to happen and it's obvious why

but I really liked what the Storm bloke did, announced last week he had signed a new contract with another club but the rest of this year he was 100% committed to the Storm

Edited July 9, 2014 by Mike Nolan

[Machsy 2,858]

Band 2 is the pick after the first round.

Band 1

Goddard 27 - $3m/4

Thomas 26 - $2.8m/4

Band 3

Sylvia 27 - $1.05m/3

Dal Santo 29 - $1.35m/3

Frawley would bring:

Band 3: Pick 24 - (Frawley 26 - $1m/4)

Band 2: Pick 20 - (Frawley 26 - $1.8m/4)

Band 1: Pick 4 - (Frawley 26 - $2.6m/4)

I am not sure when one Band jumps to the next Band but my money is on Band 1 and Pick 4, and I was right about Sylvia...

The only thing I worry about is indexation.

The salary cap will increase, players salaries rise... Will the bands therefore be adjusted annually to account for that, so that second-rate players don't earn band 1 compensation?

I doubt the AFL have even considered the concept, but surely it's the sort the thing that will be brought to their attention immediately before our compensation is awarded.

[nutbean 8,838]

I know it's not going to happen and it's obvious why

but I really liked what the Storm bloke did, announced last week he had signed a new contract with another club but the rest of this year he was 100% committed to the Storm

That is not unusual for NRL - it is part of their system. You can announce you are off and who you are off to whilst still playing for your club.

We also have the problem with the non Free agents not having the freedom to be able to move to the club of their choice that would make the NRL model problematic.

[rjay 24,887]

I know it's not going to happen and it's obvious why

but I really liked what the Storm bloke did, announced last week he had signed a new contract with another club but the rest of this year he was 100% committed to the Storm

I don't like this at all and hope we never see it in our game.

In fact Cameron Smith has said before that he doesn't really like this aspect of League despite some of our media clowns (Hutchy) saying we need to grow up. There is nothing grown up in my opinion about treating the game purely as a money sport (even though it is more often than not) rather than a game where passion is still a big part of it.

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

I don't like this at all and hope we never see it in our game.

In fact Cameron Smith has said before that he doesn't really like this aspect of League despite some of our media clowns (Hutchy) saying we need to grow up. There is nothing grown up in my opinion about treating the game purely as a money sport (even though it is more often than not) rather than a game where passion is still a big part of it.

I don't think it lends to well to Kids who admire the players and having so many moving clubs so much more often I think takes away from that, but I understand why it needed to come in from the players prespective

In Chips case I probably wouldn't mind it purely from a planning point of view, if we knew he was leaving and we'd get Band 1 we have an extra 10 weeks to plan who we might draft, who might be on the table during trade week and so on, although I think they would have a reasonable idea by now anyway.

[nutbean 8,838]

I don't like this at all and hope we never see it in our game.

In fact Cameron Smith has said before that he doesn't really like this aspect of League despite some of our media clowns (Hutchy) saying we need to grow up. There is nothing grown up in my opinion about treating the game purely as a money sport (even though it is more often than not) rather than a game where passion is still a big part of it.

Its more difficult for AFL than NRL as unless you are a free agent you don't have unrestricted movement like the NRL players have. So take the example of Tom MacDonald - how can he come out midseason and say I'm off to Hawthorn next year ? Both Hawthorn and Melbourne would have to be able to broker a deal to make that happen and we know that doesn't always happen.

The only players this approach could work for is unrestricted free agents like Frawley as he has unfettered movement.

[daisycutter 29,604]

The only thing I worry about is indexation.

The salary cap will increase, players salaries rise... Will the bands therefore be adjusted annually to account for that, so that second-rate players don't earn band 1 compensation?

I doubt the AFL have even considered the concept, but surely it's the sort the thing that will be brought to their attention immediately before our compensation is awarded.

the 500k only represents 5%

5% on 600k makes 630k - no big difference

[rpfc 28,263]

The only thing I worry about is indexation.

The salary cap will increase, players salaries rise... Will the bands therefore be adjusted annually to account for that, so that second-rate players don't earn band 1 compensation?

I doubt the AFL have even considered the concept, but surely it's the sort the thing that will be brought to their attention immediately before our compensation is awarded.

the 500k only represents 5%

5% on 600k makes 630k - no big difference

I think that they should use the percentage of the cap as a part of their formula but their formula is as malleable as the truth down at AFL House. They won't give us a PP but give us Pick 4 for Frawley. It's just the perfect PR answer to us needing talent and the AFL needing to show its owners (Coll, Haw, WCE, etc) that it doesn't give a sucker an even break.

[beelzebub 23,313]

there is NO real formula

there are simply deliberations

[The Chazz 4,077]

I think that they should use the percentage of the cap as a part of their formula but their formula is as malleable as the truth down at AFL House. They won't give us a PP but give us Pick 4 for Frawley. It's just the perfect PR answer to us needing talent and the AFL needing to show its owners (Coll, Haw, WCE, etc) that it doesn't give a sucker an even break.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you talking about draft pick compensation as opposed to the band compensation?

Interesting...

[rjay 24,887]

Its more difficult for AFL than NRL as unless you are a free agent you don't have unrestricted movement like the NRL players have. So take the example of Tom MacDonald - how can he come out midseason and say I'm off to Hawthorn next year ? Both Hawthorn and Melbourne would have to be able to broker a deal to make that happen and we know that doesn't always happen.

The only players this approach could work for is unrestricted free agents like Frawley as he has unfettered movement.

Yeah it is more difficult and I really don't want to see a time where players flag they are moving to another club during the season. I think it would be a retrograde step rather than a mature one as clowns like Hutchie seem to think. I hate the way they have tried to manipulate the debate on this.

Edited July 10, 2014 by rjay

[Machsy 2,858]

the 500k only represents 5%

5% on 600k makes 630k - no big difference

Yes, but what if Hawthorn offers him $625k per season so we just fall into band 2?

And it's been a couple of years since FA has been in place.

As rpfc said, the AFL's formula is malleable and creates too much uncertainty for my liking.

It's be fine if I had confidence in them to act fairly (as I perceive it).

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

Yes, but what if Hawthorn offers him $625k per season so we just fall into band 2?

And it's been a couple of years since FA has been in place.

As rpfc said, the AFL's formula is malleable and creates too much uncertainty for my liking.

It's be fine if I had confidence in them to act fairly (as I perceive it).

they take the age, position of the team and importance to the team into account correct?

surely a key defender in a bottom 3 team that has won 37 games in 8 years who is in the leadership group would all push anything above 500k per year up into band 1, I reckon they would make sure we are compensated well for what would be a very significant loss for the club

[Nasher 33,607]

I don't like this at all and hope we never see it in our game.

In fact Cameron Smith has said before that he doesn't really like this aspect of League despite some of our media clowns (Hutchy) saying we need to grow up. There is nothing grown up in my opinion about treating the game purely as a money sport (even though it is more often than not) rather than a game where passion is still a big part of it.

I don't like it either rjay, but is it better or worse than the Tom "I'm just going to have a look around" Scully situation, or this business with Frawley now where every word and every movement is scrutinized? If Frawley is going, I'd prefer to know now so I can start thinking about life without him rather than waiting, waiting, waiting and being disappointed later.

[dee-luded 2,959]

GONE !! Love him to stay but has scully written all over it

Mr Chip$ will be way better, than that little Piggy, gone to Market.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Yes, but what if Hawthorn offers him $625k per season so we just fall into band 2?

And it's been a couple of years since FA has been in place.

As rpfc said, the AFL's formula is malleable and creates too much uncertainty for my liking.

It's be fine if I had confidence in them to act fairly (as I perceive it).

age...dont forget hes younger than most FA of the past

edit..others got there quicker..lol

Edited July 10, 2014 by beelzebub

[Machsy 2,858]

age...dont forget hes younger than most FA of the past

edit..others got there quicker..lol

Is this a consideration though?

I thought it was all predicated on salary and length of contract alone.

This is FA we're talking about, not the convoluted compensation formula for GCS & GWS poachings, which was different.

If you recall there was the option of multiple picks for Ablett / Scully, that is not available under the current version of FA.

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

Is this a consideration though?

I thought it was all predicated on salary and length of contract alone.

This is FA we're talking about, not the convoluted compensation formula for GCS & GWS poachings, which was different.

If you recall there was the option of multiple picks for Ablett / Scully, that is not available under the current version of FA.

Age, postion of the club, standing within the club are all considerations as far as I am aware, which is why we got overs for Sylvia last year imo