On 11/05/2014 at 07:42, T-34 said:

Hope you also noted when Watts worked on multiple leads then chased across the ground in one passage and then was bad mouthed by supporters for not having chased hard enough, completely ignoring the work he put in just to get across to the contest. Watts bashing is becoming de rigour on this forum but last night he definitely worked hard off the ball and was happy to tackle and scrimmage when able. He is not getting the possessions we would like but he is trying to do more 1% stuff to assist team mates. He was miles from being our wors

  On 11/05/2014 at 07:42, T-34 said:

Hope you also noted when Watts worked on multiple leads then chased across the ground in one passage and then was bad mouthed by supporters for not having chased hard enough, completely ignoring the work he put in just to get across to the contest. Watts bashing is becoming de rigour on this forum but last night he definitely worked hard off the ball and was happy to tackle and scrimmage when able. He is not getting the possessions we would like but he is trying to do more 1% stuff to assist team mates. He was miles from being our worst last night.

I did note that. He clearly can wotk present and pressure. So why only do it in bursts? If you can point me to where I said he was our worst too that would be good. I actually thought he was solid after a few down weeks. Hence the frustration when he lets himself down with those half efforts. Im far from a watts basher and I hate the crowd booing our own players.

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:21, rpfc said:

Huh?

You went from 'They don't understand why their 'traning form isn't replicating in games' to 'let's all get behind the new coach' with a very small bridge.

All I remember were some platitudes towards the rumblings we all now know about under Neeld - at the time you jumped down throats (personally by the way, so that's a two way street) whenever someone would allude to issues between Neeld and the players.

There were issues, but then again there are issues in all workplaces, I should know, going through it now, but it wasn't as bad as the hindsight kings try to make out, and that is now all in the past, I am sure just below the surface at the Club there are probably a few issues going on, but because there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it's not the train this time they are being buried at the moment, my point is some on here just seem to need to be negative, not sure why?

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:23, Satyriconhome said:

What do you mean where did I go, I am still here aren't I, I do have a life you know, not trapped behind the keyboard, can't let the Neeld thing go can you, as explained many eons ago, you support the incumbents in the positions whilst they are there, you can debate the rights and wrongs of what occurs and offer an opinion, then when it all goes pear shaped, you can become the hindsight king and proclaim from the mountaintops "see I was right all along", bully for you.........it's the past, move on, we have a team finally going places (or so it seems), you never know it might suddenly all go pear shaped again, then what?

No, you pretty much disappeared for six months after he was sacked and only started posting consistently again when pre-season started again. I remember how quiet you were in the 'Neeld sacked' thread (which by the way you started). No mention of it being the wrong decision or anything like that. Seems a bit strange for a bloke who was convinced that MN was doing a good job.

The sad thing is that it wasn't a hindsight thing. A lot of us (myself included) were expressing concern at the very start of the 2013 season but apparently, everything was roses and chocolates. A lot of us were behind Mark early on but as we saw the results play out, we modified our opinion. You know? Like an educated adult. Even when we were getting 20 goal floggings, apparently everything was actually hunky dory and the media and supporters were all deluded or fools.

Can you see where I am going with this? The fact you carried on like a clown last year when anyone said anything against the club and branded anything tenuously critical as being 'vitriolic' and 'negative for the sake of it' left you open to looking like an absolute goat when the s*** hit the fan. Did that have anything to do with your absence I wonder? Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. It is a monty to happen again some time in the future if you don't learn from the last 12 months.

P-Man hasn't said that Nev is a spud. He hasn't said that he should be banned for bringing the game into disrepute. Yet, you need to get all snarky with him and then whinge about people getting personal with you.

The Master was critical of Nev (for better or worse). Rather than engage him and debate with him like a functional human being, you dismiss his opinion as comedy. I wonder why people get personal with you? They probably learned that technique from you.

Even when you are announcing the members who have been signed up from the call around have to have a go at 'negative Demonlanders'. I think Doctor Gonzo was spot on in what he said about you.

Lose you messiah complex, have a bloody good look in the mirror and stop carrying on like a bloody fool.

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:38, Colin B. Flaubert said:

No, you pretty much disappeared for six months after he was sacked and only started posting consistently again when pre-season started again. I remember how quiet you were in the 'Neeld sacked' thread (which by the way you started). No mention of it being the wrong decision or anything like that. Seems a bit strange for a bloke who was convinced that MN was doing a good job.

The sad thing is that it wasn't a hindsight thing. A lot of us (myself included) were expressing concern at the very start of the 2013 season but apparently, everything was roses and chocolates. A lot of us were behind Mark early on but as we saw the results play out, we modified our opinion. You know? Like an educated adult. Even when we were getting 20 goal floggings, apparently everything was actually hunky dory and the media and supporters were all deluded or fools.

Can you see where I am going with this? The fact you carried on like a clown last year when anyone said anything against the club and branded anything tenuously critical as being 'vitriolic' and 'negative for the sake of it' left you open to looking like an absolute goat when the s*** hit the fan. Did that have anything to do with your absence I wonder? Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. It is a monty to happen again some time in the future if you don't learn from the last 12 months.

P-Man hasn't said that Nev is a spud. He hasn't said that he should be banned for bringing the game into disrepute. Yet, you need to get all snarky with him and then whinge about people getting personal with you.

The Master was critical of Nev (for better or worse). Rather than engage him and debate with him like a functional human being, you dismiss his opinion as comedy. I wonder why people get personal with you? They probably learned that technique from you.

Even when you are announcing the members who have been signed up from the call around have to have a go at 'negative Demonlanders'. I think Doctor Gonzo was spot on in what he said about you.

Lose you messiah complex, have a bloody good look in the mirror and stop carrying on like a bloody fool.

Thank you doctor, the couch was very comfortable, now let me think the season finished and there was not much footy going on, but I must spend hours on a footy forum talking about sod all, or gratuituously patting ourselves on the back on how we had saved the club..................... how interesting..............I beg to differ by the way, what the master wrote was laughable.........just a small point, the "keeping the faith" topic was being derailed, it was just meant as a notice board, so hence my comment, sorry I am not supposed to express myself that way am I in case I upset someone.........same as this topic is being derailed by your pontification, although I must say the analysis was worth every bitcoin...for someone who wasn't gonna post again, your second wind arrived early....

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:27, Satyriconhome said:

There were issues, but then again there are issues in all workplaces, I should know, going through it now, but it wasn't as bad as the hindsight kings try to make out, and that is now all in the past, I am sure just below the surface at the Club there are probably a few issues going on, but because there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it's not the train this time they are being buried at the moment, my point is some on here just seem to need to be negative, not sure why?

As CFB says - those issues were met with more than a few stern rebukes from you. It wasn't hindsight.

And sure it was negative - it was the truth - and the truth wasn't a bed of roses.

There is no need to be negative with MFC fans - there is a resilience to hope for fans of this club let me tell you that in the strongest of terms.

The amount of nonsense we have put up with in the last few years would make Lindsay Lohan cringe.

So I will add that I applaud your dedication to get to training and to get info on the club we love but I will reiterate that criticism and debate on here is not the dismissive spurn you seem to think it is. There is no need to jump down the throats of those with contrary, or 'negative,' views.

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:27, Satyriconhome said:

There were issues, but then again there are issues in all workplaces, I should know, going through it now, but it wasn't as bad as the hindsight kings try to make out, and that is now all in the past, I am sure just below the surface at the Club there are probably a few issues going on, but because there is a light at the end of the tunnel and it's not the train this time they are being buried at the moment, my point is some on here just seem to need to be negative, not sure why?

There are negatives and positives and both are aspects of realism.

I like your posting but I think sometimes you lose grasp of this.

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:50, rpfc said:

As CFB says - those issues were met with more than a few stern rebukes from you. It wasn't hindsight.

And sure it was negative - it was the truth - and the truth wasn't a bed of roses.

There is no need to be negative with MFC fans - there is a resilience to hope for fans of this club let me tell you that in the strongest of terms.

The amount of nonsense we have put up with in the last few years would make Lindsay Lohan cringe.

So I will add that I applaud your dedication to get to training and to get info on the club we love but I will reiterate that criticism and debate on here is not the dismissive spurn you seem to think it is. There is no need to jump down the throats of those with contrary, or 'negative,' views.

Chap, as we keep getting told, it is a forum, so I have my opinions, like everybody else does, except I and a few others don't seem to be allowed to have them, especially if they are contrary to the more vociferous on here........If I think somebody is wrong, I will express that opinion......reasonable debate is very thin on the ground on this forum.....

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:55, Satyriconhome said:

Chap, as we keep getting told, it is a forum, so I have my opinions, like everybody else does, except I and a few others don't seem to be allowed to have them, especially if they are contrary to the more vociferous on here........If I think somebody is wrong, I will express that opinion......reasonable debate is very thin on the ground on this forum

Ok, this is cognitive dissonance...

You are guilty of the very crime you accuse of others.

I will simplify this for all concerned:

Stop. Taking. Criticism. Of. Players. Personally.

Opinions are just that - opinions.

If you think 'reasonable debate' is thin on the ground maybe you should try bringing some 'reasonableness' yourself.

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:55, Satyriconhome said:

Chap, as we keep getting told, it is a forum, so I have my opinions, like everybody else does, except I and a few others don't seem to be allowed to have them, especially if they are contrary to the more vociferous on here........If I think somebody is wrong, I will express that opinion......reasonable debate is very thin on the ground on this forum.....

Saty, I think by posting you contradict yourself. I appreciate many of your posts, but you get quite touchy when people disagree with you, yes it is a forum we all have opinions I agree with many of yours. What I do not agree with is your personal attacks when someone has the temerity to disagree with you. You are very quick to criticize the poster rather than their opinion and establish a counter argument. Keep up the good work. I hope you see this a constructive criticism rather than a personal attack.

Wow, cognitive dissonance, and I just thought it was differing views

That is the whole issue, a couple of the "vociferi", reckon I and a few others take the criticism of players personally, I know I don't, I just find the constant carping about certain players tiresome, as if the players don't know when they make mistakes etc, or where their shortcomings, if any, are

Hence why in the training thread I asked for questions and got Jimmy Toumpas' answer and I got a frank appraisal from Jordie McKenzie on himself, so not rubbish, but facts

  On 13/05/2014 at 05:17, ManDee said:

Saty, I think by posting you contradict yourself. I appreciate many of your posts, but you get quite touchy when people disagree with you, yes it is a forum we all have opinions I agree with many of yours. What I do not agree with is your personal attacks when someone has the temerity to disagree with you. You are very quick to criticize the poster rather than their opinion and establish a counter argument. Keep up the good work. I hope you see this a constructive criticism rather than a personal attack.

Mate, it is mainly a small group on here, I tend to take them on, they bore me, they are like a broken record, on and on and on about what is wrong with a player/coach/etc etc, they state an opinion and expect everybody to immediately fall in behind, "the Bail can't kick" myth a perfect example, don't dare to disagree otherwise it leads to personal attacks, no offence taken by the way

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:25, Generation dee said:

ame="T-34" post="925337" timestamp="1399794139"]Hope you also noted when Watts worked on multiple leads then chased across the ground in one passage and then was bad mouthed by supporters for not having chased hard enough, completely ignoring the work he put in just to get across to the contest. Watts bashing is becoming de rigour on this forum but last night he definitely worked hard off the ball and was happy to tackle and scrimmage when able. He is not getting the possessions we would like but he is trying to do more 1% stuff to assist team mates. He was miles from being our wors

I did note that. He clearly can wotk present and pressure. So why only do it in bursts? If you can point me to where I said he was our worst too that would be good. I actually thought he was solid after a few down weeks. Hence the frustration when he lets himself down with those half efforts. Im far from a watts basher and I hate the crowd booing our own players.

I read your post and remember the incident clearly.

Here are some explanations.

1. Watts was covered, the player had the ball and was moving backwards from the mark when Watts pointed to the space between him and the boundary. If he'd led early the space would have been taken before the player could kick the ball. Watts was indicating where he wanted the ball and was waiting for the kick so he could lead into it.

2. Watts was leaving the space for JKH to lead into and not taking it from him as JKH had separation on his opponent and Watts didn't. Watts could then lead into the space behind JKH.

3. Watts is a lazy good for nothing footballer who couldn't be bothered running the 25 metres to make a lead and just thought FU.

Out of those three explanations I'd take the third one as least likely as it wasn't in keeping with the rest of his game and doesn't make sense. But you highlighted it as the only negative in your whole post. You must really dislike Watts

  On 13/05/2014 at 04:15, Satyriconhome said:

CFB and WYLGee you two are boring, you make the posts about me when I respond, why because I disagree with your opinions, everybody can have an opinion, but stick your head above the parapet and you will get shot at if the opinion is not agreed with, that is the problem you two seem to have...I don't mind my opinions being disagreed with and hopefully we will have some healthy debate, but no, it gets personal, so I respond in a manner you understand......get this....you are not always right, and neither am I but I don't mind being proved wrong, and I put my hand up when I am, rather than my head up my arse like some on this board

I am wary of your posts Satyr because you are close to the club no doubt, but you refused to question the surrounds when they were collapsing around you....To this day i am sure you will tell me "nothing was wrong".....

If you consider my posts boring So be it...

Neeld was a problem from round one 2012 sadly....For 2 years the club was in freefall after 2011 fell apart...... Sorry for being concerned.

  On 13/05/2014 at 05:22, Satyriconhome said:

Mate, it is mainly a small group on here, I tend to take them on, they bore me, they are like a broken record, on and on and on about what is wrong with a player/coach/etc etc, they state an opinion and expect everybody to immediately fall in behind, "the Bail can't kick" myth a perfect example, don't dare to disagree otherwise it leads to personal attacks, no offence taken by the way

This is a load of garbage. It is your perception which is so far detached from the reality.

It's a forum where someone states an opinion, and anyone is entitled to rebutt it. As happens in just about every topic.

You come in like a crazed teenage girl defending her favourite boy band, and make it personal. Making insinuations about the poster being a comedian, or having little going on in their life, or some other nonsense.

Have you learned nothing from the Neeld debacle, where blindly defending everything and everyone and attacking anyone who dares to question it can bite you on the backside? Seriously fella.

Maybe I'm naïve, but isn't this thread supposed to be a Round 8 post-match discussion? Take it easy some of you - take a step back, breath, and let it go.

  On 12/05/2014 at 23:00, Satyriconhome said:

Some of your finest comedy yet, Jetta has a role, he plays that role

Wow I sparked 3 pages of Saty at his finest. I could get more personal but it's rehashing old ground and I do like your training reports. I think you mean well defending the players but in turn you attack me for just expressing my opinion.

What I don't value is your opinion on football, mainly because I'm not sure you actually have one besides from just taking what you here from players and coaches as gospel.

I never said Jetta played too badly. Overall he was maybe just a pass mark. But just playing your role is setting the bar so low. Last week Jetta kept Betts to 8 or so touches, this week Dalhaus, whilst limited in impact had 20 odd. When in direct one on one's Jetta did well, but he far from completely snuffed out the influence Dalhaus had. Offensively Jetta only had 8 touches. All the other defenders had more. Jetta only had 1 mark. He wasn't taking intercept marks, nor was he running to be an option out of the backline. If you are going to be just a defensive stopper you better be really good at stopping.

I'm not looking for Jetta to be Andrew McLeod with attacking flair and run. Nor am I looking for him to have pin point skills. But until he starts running to receive the ball and help open space for his team mates I don't think he'll make it as a player and hence why I described his as a frustrating footballer. You don't need talent or dare to run you just need work rate.

Watch Jetta this week live at the game (it's hard to see these things on TV). When the ball gets turned over at half back watch the likes of Grimes (if he's back in the backline), M. Jones, Howe, McDonald all run and spread to provide an option. Then watch Jetta often stall or gently meander to space.

What are peoples' thoughts on Grimes' game?

  On 13/05/2014 at 07:07, AdamFarr said:

What are peoples' thoughts on Grimes' game?

I think Jack is now starting to lose some of those clangers that he performed last year. I don't clinch my teeth anymore when he gets the pill.

I am with others that he should have kept his position in the back line. We tried him as a mid in 2012/13 and while he tried manfully, he is a backman. The Griffen tag should have been given to someone else.

Otherwise, a pretty good performance.

He kept griffen down very well but he really is the general of the backline he may have been the difference in the game if he was coming off half back

McDonald should have been on crameri also

  On 13/05/2014 at 07:07, AdamFarr said:

What are peoples' thoughts on Grimes' game?

Ordinary. Stopped Griffen killing us but gave nothing the other way. He isn't a midfielder. Roos knew this when he put him in the backline for this season, but seemingly thought it was worth a go for this game. I doubt he'll try it again any time soon unless we are really short on mids.

  On 13/05/2014 at 07:07, AdamFarr said:

What are peoples' thoughts on Grimes' game?

My confidence in him is slowly building.

Whilst he kept Griffin relatively quiet, he now has a bit of a calming presence down back that was missed on Saturday night. Besides which Griffin is struggling to get back to his old form anyway. I'd hope to see him back there against the Tigers.

  On 13/05/2014 at 05:28, Baghdad Bob said:

I read your post and remember the incident clearly.

Here are some explanations.

1. Watts was covered, the player had the ball and was moving backwards from the mark when Watts pointed to the space between him and the boundary. If he'd led early the space would have been taken before the player could kick the ball. Watts was indicating where he wanted the ball and was waiting for the kick so he could lead into it.

2. Watts was leaving the space for JKH to lead into and not taking it from him as JKH had separation on his opponent and Watts didn't. Watts could then lead into the space behind JKH.

3. Watts is a lazy good for nothing footballer who couldn't be bothered running the 25 metres to make a lead and just thought FU.

Out of those three explanations I'd take the third one as least likely as it wasn't in keeping with the rest of his game and doesn't make sense. But you highlighted it as the only negative in your whole post. You must really dislike Watts

come on BB.

you have been a better judge of football in the past than that. of the 3 options which do you think it is? if you remember the moment, the player with the ball was actually holding it for a fair while as no players were free. But surely you have watched enough footy by now that if a player is manned up, they usually try to break off and get a step in front of their opponent dont they? this isnt me bashing on watts, he is a good kid and he had some good moments for the game. what i did say, if you read my post like you mentioned, was that it showed the difference in effort between the 2. one, a 70kg first year player who puts his body on the line whenever he needs to and works hard at every contest, vs a 6th year 196cm player who still isnt quite able to deliver intensity for 4 quarters.

wouldnt you prefer BB if we could both watch and know every player is giving everything and working hard at every contest, not just occasionally?

  On 13/05/2014 at 03:20, P-man said:

It really is pointless having these discussions with you because you wilfully overlook fundamental points being made. Last post cause I really can't be bothered with you when you carry on like this.

For the third time now, I agree he is a valuable member of the team. All I said was that we should steady on in calling him as valuable a player as we have. Once you start endorsing those kind of statements, others can become meaningless. Is Nathan Jones more valuable than Neviille Jetta? Of course he bloody is.

master's points if you dissect his post, whilst harshly expressed, were:

Point 1: I still think he just lacks interest in being a difference maker (which he can be)

Point 2: a passenger until he gets a one on one contest (which he often wins and does well in) or until he can tackle someone.

Point 3: I really wish he had the fitness to be a midfielder and tag at times.

Point 4: At the moment you have to put him on the best forward from the other team because he only seems to rise to a challenge

You addressed NONE of these. You did what you always do. Take it as some sort of bizarre personal affront and insult the poster.

You want to be a self appointed representative of the players? Start acting like one.

OMG- I thought that I was a pedant, but really slip back into the also rans after that

  On 13/05/2014 at 07:40, monoccular said:

OMG- I thought that I was a pedant, but really slip back into the also rans after that

It has developed far beyond what it should have. I was merely pointing out that grand statements should be tempered a bit when he's played 4 games. Pedantic? Maybe.

This all has a bit of twilight zone about it. It doesn't seem long ago that the bulk of demonland it seemed was saying Jetta had no future and I was one of the ones advocating for him to be given another chance. He beats Eddie Betts and now he's our most valuable player.

Very odd.

  On 13/05/2014 at 07:27, Sassy said:

McDonald should have been on crameri also

Or Frawley.