One swallow does not make a spring, nor one match a reason for despair or elation. One theme of those who are depressed by last night is that we couldn't beat a depleted St Kilda which it is well known to be a basket case like us. But where is the hard evidence for that? They have just won 3 in a row I heard a commentator say - (admittedly one against a tanking team but with players not wishing to gamble with their form before finals). When did we last do that? St Kilda may well surprise some who have written them off over summer.

I'll wait for more of the season to unfold before making any conclusions. When we have some talls in and see how we go against teams which are shown by results, not media waffle, to be also struggling and how we stand up against the mediocre and good teams, we'll be in a better position to judge.

after 5 minutes we had 2 goals. Four more were kicked for the entire night, which is a disgrace.

When you go into a match with no possible way of kicking a winning score, you really have to shed a tear for poor old Mitch Clark - he must be feeling really sad as he watches it on his big screen TV with his leather sofa from the luxury property that he owns. Hope he has his feet up and is nice and comfy so he doesn't feel so sad. Maybe Roos can find the time to give him a call and ask him very nicely if he can play full-forward, I don't know if those type of phone calls are part of the scope of services for a master coach who makes $70k a week though. Clearly we are reaping the benefits of paying the big bucks for the best people available.

sorry for that super sarcastic rant, I am furious.

Regardless of anything else going on in his life, Clark is injured - he wouldn't be playing at the moment anyway.

You give one example when there are thousands that support mine.

Are you seriously suggesting the better team did not win last night?

You made a blanket statement. "Good teams kick goals", saying that our poor conversion was because we were a bad team. I countered your blanket statement with an example where one of the best teams of our generation lost a GF largely due to their inability to convert in front of goal. This was designed to show you that sometimes poor conversion just happens, or perhaps it was for other reasons (at least one of which is very obvious and has past evidence to support it).

Provide evidence and analysis, rather than just giving your tired 'woe is me' response to everything. It's really, really, really boring.

One swallow does not make a spring, nor one match a reason for despair or elation. One theme of those who are depressed by last night is that we couldn't beat a depleted St Kilda which it is well known to be a basket case like us. But where is the hard evidence for that? They have just won 3 in a row I heard a commentator say - (admittedly one against a tanking team but with players not wishing to gamble with their form before finals). When did we last do that? St Kilda may well surprise some who have written them off over summer.

I'll wait for more of the season to unfold before making any conclusions. When we have some talls in and see how we go against teams which are shown by results, not media waffle, to be also struggling and how we stand up against the mediocre and good teams, we'll be in a better position to judge.

I remember people saying similar things last year sue after Port fixed us up.

Then we hit Essendon round 2 we all saw the quality of our list and the year was over .

Next week we play WCE

Oh my!

Grimes used to be a very good contested mark when he first came to the club but you just don't see him do that anymore.

I think he is one of the players that Roos refers to when he says they are scarred, he has been through some pretty bad seasons with us and I reckon there a tremendous upside with him.

He said on Game Day this morning he doesn't eat meat and hasn't for a couple of years, no wonder he's losing strength.

You made a blanket statement. "Good teams kick goals", saying that our poor conversion was because we were a bad team. I countered your blanket statement with an example where one of the best teams of our generation lost a GF largely due to their inability to convert in front of goal. This was designed to show you that sometimes poor conversion just happens, or perhaps it was for other reasons (at least one of which is very obvious and has past evidence to support it).

Provide evidence and analysis, rather than just giving your tired 'woe is me' response to everything. It's really, really, really boring.

Almost as boring as the tired excuses we use to defend a poor list.

Oh we have injuries

Oh we kicked so poorly

Oh the umpires did not pay the right frees

The real reason is we have poor ability.

Pedersen kicking three points now there is a surprise.

The guy is VFL standard expecting any more is like saying if only the titanic hit a smaller iceberg

Edited March 23, 201411 yr by old dee

He said on Game Day this morning he doesn't eat meat and hasn't for a couple of years, no wonder he's losing strength.

Mmmmm.....at the risk of offending the 'Vegies', I'm not sure that's a good thing in an elite sportsman.

Laughable post. We will improve when we have a forward line. In a few weeks time, if all goes well, Hogan and Dawes are back in the forward line providing a target and making Howe and Fitzy third and fourth talls. Garland is back as well as Gawn and Viney. That's some very handy talent still to return to the side.

We showed what we can do - we got plenty of the ball and got it in the forward line plenty of times. We just had no targets to kick to and put the score on the board.

Edit - and your disgusting jab at Mitch Clark is a disgrace as well. Pull your head in.

The problem here is that we're always waiting for something. The new coach, new recruit, our best 22 to hit the park, if we get this then this.

Life doesn't wait and nothing is ever perfect, we need to perform now without excuses. Last night wasn't good enough plain and simple and if it is a guide to the season ahead we will be lucky to win a game. I just hope it isn't a guide to what's ahead but the evidence to date is not good.

I remember people saying similar things last year sue after Port fixed us up.

Then we hit Essendon round 2 we all saw the quality of our list and the year was over .

Next week we play WCE

Oh my!

And they were right to say that after we played Port. It took at least one more match for it to become clear where were were at, but extrapolating from the first two was sadly easy with the 2011 performance to 'build' on. With a new coach and some new midfield players I'm not coming to any conclusions even if we get trounced by WCE. Sadly, you will I'm sure.

The problem here is that we're always waiting for something. The new coach, new recruit, our best 22 to hit the park, if we get this then this.

Life doesn't wait and nothing is ever perfect, we need to perform now without excuses. Last night wasn't good enough plain and simple and if it is a guide to the season ahead we will be lucky to win a game. I just hope it isn't a guide to what's ahead but the evidence to date is not good.

Yep rjay.

Why is it that people cannot accept we have a poor list.

PR and the new FD can only do so much.

For four years the people that run out to play have been showing us their skill level.

We have started to replace a lot of the NGE's but there is still much to be done.

IMO we need another two years to get a decent list.

Almost as boring as the tired excuses we use to defend a poor list.

Oh we have injuries

Oh we kicked so poorly

Oh the umpires did not pay the right frees

The real reason is we have poor ability.

Pedersen kicking three points now there is a surprise.

The guy is VFL standard expecting any more is like saying if only the titanic hit a smaller iceberg

....really, really, really, really boring.

Does anyone think we are world beaters? No. But you start with 'Melbourne = bad', and then just blame everything on that. No thought of why or how. It's just you being a sad sack and then trying to drag everyone down into you own, comfortable pit of self-fulfilling despair. Misery loves company.

It's very shallow, and really, really, really boring.

Bernie Vince said after the game, that this team is desperate for superstar game breaker,but because we dont have one, we need the whole team playing well and giving 100% to win.

We Really need Hogan and Viney to develop into something special, maybe a Tyson or Salem could do something over time,but because our most eligible players are so young its going to take time.

And they were right to say that after we played Port. It took at least one more match for it to become clear where were were at, but extrapolating from the first two was sadly easy with the 2011 performance to 'build' on. With a new coach and some new midfield players I'm not coming to any conclusions even if we get trounced by WCE. Sadly, you will I'm sure.

If we get trounced by WCE I doubt I will have to say anything

....really, really, really, really boring.

Does anyone think we are world beaters? No. But you start with 'Melbourne = bad', and then just blame everything on that. No thought of why or how. It's just you being a sad sack and then trying to drag everyone down into you own, comfortable pit of self-fulfilling despair. Misery loves company.

It's very shallow, and really, really, really boring.

Actions speak louder than words

Actions speak louder than words

While not really wanting to provide an excuse/reason for last nights result, consider this fact.

Any team in this competition would struggle if they could not field their 3 best tall forwards, 2 of their 3 ruckmen, their best up and coming mid and their best defender and then lose their only remaining tall forward and a key defender in the first half, and that includes Hawthorn,Fremantle or whoever you want to put forward.

Keep this in perspective, yes it was disappointing to see and we all would have loved to see a win but remember the base we are coming from, yes St.Kilda was missing 3 mids but our list is at a point where we just can't cover the key players missing.

If St.Kilda had no Reiwolt last night we would have won yet we were missing 3 of our equivalents which made it very tough.

This kind of appraisal needs to be conducted at round 15 or 16 not after 1 round with a very injury riddled team.

Understand the venting just don't know if it is fully justified.

If we get trounced by WCE I doubt I will have to say anything

But I bet you do anyway.

Edited March 23, 201411 yr by T-34

But I bet you do anyway.

Probably T-34

I remember people saying similar things last year sue after Port fixed us up.

Then we hit Essendon round 2 we all saw the quality of our list and the year was over .

Next week we play WCE

Oh my!

It's the same every year, when we are rubbish in the preseason and everyone makes out like it doesn't matter, and then of course, it ends up mattering. I am just about the only person who said we would lose last night, because there is/was no way to kick a winning score and losing to the hawks by 110 was a terrible omen. There are a LOT of people living in dreamland at the moment

It's the same every year, when we are rubbish in the preseason and everyone makes out like it doesn't matter, and then of course, it ends up mattering. I am just about the only person who said we would lose last night, because there is/was no way to kick a winning score and losing to the hawks by 110 was a terrible omen. There are a LOT of people living in dreamland at the moment

yep. The lack of fight from the midfield last night was just not good enough.

The Saints first gamers all had a crack.

The job Roos has taken on is actually harder than i thought.

We won't get a weaker midfield oponent this year.

It's the same every year, when we are rubbish in the preseason and everyone makes out like it doesn't matter, and then of course, it ends up mattering. I am just about the only person who said we would lose last night, because there is/was no way to kick a winning score and losing to the hawks by 110 was a terrible omen. There are a LOT of people living in dreamland at the moment

I felt as though we had the opportunity to win last night, i think as Roosy said the problems are mental

Regardless of anything else going on in his life, Clark is injured - he wouldn't be playing at the moment anyway.

They said he was in contention for round 1, then we are told minimum 8 weeks? Obviously Mitch Clark is going to miss games that he is indeed physically fit for, and he is genuinely the most important player in the side bar none, and it IS going to cost us wins. To me it is shocking that everyone seems to be so accepting of this.

Bernie Vince said after the game, that this team is desperate for superstar game breaker,but because we dont have one, we need the whole team playing well and giving 100% to win.

We Really need Hogan and Viney to develop into something special, maybe a Tyson or Salem could do something over time,but because our most eligible players are so young its going to take time.

Trengove, Sylvia, Watts and Cale Morton were supposed to become these players but of course they didn't. Don't know why anyone would expect the next crop to be any different.

They said he was in contention for round 1, then we are told minimum 8 weeks? Obviously Mitch Clark is going to miss games that he is indeed physically fit for, and he is genuinely the most important player in the side bar none, and it IS going to cost us wins. To me it is shocking that everyone seems to be so accepting of this.

Not sure that acceptance is the word C and B

There is nothing that can be done about it.

We are locked into a situation that has only one out come.

He will not play this side of seven weeks.

That is the only certainty.

Everything else is beyond change

Not sure that acceptance is the word C and B

There is nothing that can be done about it.

We are locked into a situation that has only one out come.

He will not play this side of seven weeks.

That is the only certainty.

Everything else is beyond change

Not 7 weeks, not again. Right now he has the opportunity to get these soft tissue injuries at the club and work with elite professionals in the field to work out the problems. Dawes is and has gone to the AIS for more opinions on his calf while Clark has decided to go and take leave from the club after it all.