Would be interesting to see one of Mark Neeld to contrast the two different attitudes

Not that it was training but I think we saw plenty of MN's attitude in some of his speeches that were miked up:

Roos has respect and our list will respond to respect, it is why Jones has always been our best choice as captain.

Players respect Jones, just as they respect Roos, we have a list that simply will not budge for anyone it doesn't respect.

Roos has respect and our list will respond to respect, it is why Jones has always been our best choice as captain.

Players respect Jones, just as they respect Roos, we have a list that simply will not budge for anyone it doesn't respect.

Ah actually especially in the past a lot of players saw Jones as a bit selfish and only friendly with a small portion of the list. They had more respect for Grimes who was more friendly and outgoing with more of the list.

Of course respect is vital for a coach. You can still get that and be a hard tough nosed disciplinarian, there are plenty of successful coaches or leaders in sport or life who are like that. And I'm sure there will be times we see the grumpy and angry Roos deliver a spray to the players. I think the main issue is trust. Everything Roos has done so far is about building the players trust. In the game plan, in their team mates, in him and in themselves.

Not that it was training but I think we saw plenty of MN's attitude in some of his speeches that were miked up:

Geez that brings back my NIGHTMARES.

Please make it stop.

Went to training when MN was coach about 3 or 4 times... never saw him! How refreshing to see a coach work 'with' the players and be a part of it. Certainly not rocket science to do that but that should've been a priority when appointing a new coach you'd think? How poor we've been in employing the right people...scary almost .

Ah actually especially in the past a lot of players saw Jones as a bit selfish and only friendly with a small portion of the list. They had more respect for Grimes who was more friendly and outgoing with more of the list.

Of course respect is vital for a coach. You can still get that and be a hard tough nosed disciplinarian, there are plenty of successful coaches or leaders in sport or life who are like that. And I'm sure there will be times we see the grumpy and angry Roos deliver a spray to the players. I think the main issue is trust. Everything Roos has done so far is about building the players trust. In the game plan, in their team mates, in him and in themselves.

Jones as selfish, lol.. I only hear this one on demonland.

Reserved, yes.. Selfish, absolutely not...

Jones leads by example on the field and has always had the respect of the players.

There was a couple of separate groups before Moloney left, it was only natural Nathan would've hang around the older heads - as they were the midfield.

Grimes hung with the younger guys, naturally, therefore him and Trengove got more votes amongst the players.

This doesn't mean players thought Jones was selfish, just that they were swayed more by Grimes and Trengove, we let young kids pick our captains and we have let young kids run our club.. Gave the players too much say, before these players were even AFL grade.

In the meantime, Jones was busy racking up B&F's and was respected by older heads in the game - experts who had actually achieved GREAT feats in the game, not kids who haven't even proven themselves...Roos was a fan of Jones, amongst many in the media - who thought Neeld couldn't run a bath, let alone a club.

Everyone outside of Melbourne known Jones was the logical choice, we went the other way and had no leadership.

I though MN was a good coach for us right up until I saw his televised pre game speech...that left me flat and I started to doubt him.

Roos seems to be everything MN was not.

Bleasy, Byrnesy, Maxy, Matty, Kenty, Georgy, Wattsy. Classic Roosy.

By the way he's mentioned 3 times in the first 20 seconds I do get the feeling Blease is a massive pet project of Roos. If he can fix Blease he can coach just about anyone.

Dunny.

Not that it was training but I think we saw plenty of MN's attitude in some of his speeches that were miked up:

SHUDDER

god i just love his enthusiasm.

so encouraging.

no way i can see him leaving after a couple of years. clearly loving it.

Hope so. I am absolutely loving Paul Roos as our head coach.

You're mistaken my friend, Neeld didn't run the trainings, he was to important, he just did the main show whilst Craig was the matinee show

Revisionism at its best. I saw MN stand in the middle of the ground barking out instruction and encouragement during simulated matchplay exactly as PR is doing - well almost exactly . There is one major difference and the two clips of MN speaking highlight it. MN speaking was not inspiring, was not motivating and unfortunately not believable and the players just didn't buy in. MN was not engaging and the players did not engage.

MN was a dismal failure as a coach but it was not because of the way he ran training sessions.

I missed the Essendon game - which turned out to be a good thing - but even better was missing that 1/2 time speech, Half of the players looked like they were going to sleep and the other half looked like they'd rather be home watching the B grade movies on the TV. Boring, uninspiring and embarrassing.

I'm now going to make myself repress those years.

Roos reminds me of someone I played under in the local leagues. We weren't world beaters, but we punched above our weight, and dropped of dramatically once they left. It was all about wanting to earn praise from someone you respected. Someone that even when they were pointing out where you went wrong didn't belittle you, but let it be known in a round about way that he knew you were better than that, and smarter than that, and with a pointer or two you'd get it right next time.

It's hard to put into words because leadership can come in many forms, and if saying x and y makes a leader we'd have millions of them, but he has that something. He talks and you listen, and you want to be better because you don't want to let him down. Northy had it too, and other than that I haven't seen it at the club in my lifetime.

Geez roosy is impressive,sorta bloke you would follow into battle and want to do well for

Another Neeld bashing thread - *fist pump!

Another Neeld bashing thread - *fist pump!

Maybe we should start bashing a premiership winning coach or a premiership winning CEO before they have presided over a game like you would like us to do?

Maybe we should start bashing a premiership winning coach or a premiership winning CEO before they have presided over a game like you would like us to do?

You don't get it.

The players' accountability has never been scrutinised in all this process/performance.

I'm not advocating any 'bashing' - I'm moving on.

But, Colin (if that's your real name) you can keep jumping at a hidden agenda.

You don't get it.

The players' accountability has never been scrutinised in all this process/performance.

I'm not advocating any 'bashing' - I'm moving on.

I didn't back the playing group after the 186 horror, and I thought Neeld was right to wield the ax on some of the egos, but he was a bad coach. One of the worst ever maybe. He deserves the spleen venting even if this thread isn't the place to do it.

You don't get it.

The players' accountability has never been scrutinised in all this process/performance.

I'm not advocating any 'bashing' - I'm moving on.

But, Colin (if that's your real name) you can keep jumping at a hidden agenda.

Well, clearly Colin is not my real name. If you know your Melbourne rock bands, you will know where that handle comes from.

You are being disingenuous in saying that you don't have an agenda. One only need to look at your work in which you canned Roosy for daring to suggest that the players had some scars left over from the last little bit. Never mind the fact that he also praised the boys fitness and professionalism at training and that he was never specific as to who left the scars behind.

You are right in that the players need to take responsibility in this. I will add that this is neither an either/or situation. No one forced those blokes to turn up and accept paycheques from the club to play football. However, Schwab, Neeld, Bailey (though I am now more sympathetic towards him in hindsight) and Connolly are also culpable in this, no matter how much you would like to palm the blame on to somebody else.

Another Neeld bashing thread - *fist pump!

I agree, but the hairshirt wearers need to remind themselves why they are so happy to have Roos as coach, instead of just enjoying it

.......a coach in the middle of the ground during a practice match barking out instructions and praise....gee never seen that before.......

The players' accountability has never been scrutinised in all this process/performance.

Not wanting to derail the thread ( but I am going to anyway). I have shifted my position on players and their relationship with coaches from what I firmly believed "Should be" to the reality of "what is".

I have always been firm on the opinion that players are highly paid professionals and this idea of "playing for the coach" is a nonsense. As a highly paid professionals these footballers should take pride in performance every week and not spit the dummy because they dont like the coach, his methods, his attitudes, the position he plays them etc etc. Players shouldn't need to think about buying in. It is what they are paid to do

I now have shifted my opinion to "reality". The above opinion whilst logical is not reality - many of these footballers have fragile ego's and inflated self importance. They require stroking and stick in finely balanced measure. The reality is that players make choices about buying in.

I believe this was the major undoing of Neeld. Upset the playing group and no-one bought in. From what I can see of the Swans playing group under Roos and the early stages of our group is the players truly like him and will play for him.

Well, clearly Colin is not my real name. If you know your Melbourne rock bands, you will know where that handle comes from.

You are being disingenuous in saying that you don't have an agenda. One only need to look at your work in which you canned Roosy for daring to suggest that the players had some scars left over from the last little bit. Never mind the fact that he also praised the boys fitness and professionalism at training and that he was never specific as to who left the scars behind.

You are right in that the players need to take responsibility in this. I will add that this is neither an either/or situation. No one forced those blokes to turn up and accept paycheques from the club to play football. However, Schwab, Neeld, Bailey (though I am now more sympathetic towards him in hindsight) and Connolly are also culpable in this, no matter how much you would like to palm the blame on to somebody else.

I was being facetious re: your user name.

You aspire in glowing narrative that espouses such glaring emotive words, such as 'canned' - my critique was around the new coach to be a statesman, a true leader, avoiding the blame game.

Is it conceivable that Neeld started building the fitness level?

The place was a train wreck and we're all looking at a positive outcome. Time to forget Neeld.

I was being facetious re: your user name.

You aspire in glowing narrative that espouses such glaring emotive words, such as 'canned' - my critique was around the new coach to be a statesman, a true leader, avoiding the blame game.

Is it conceivable that Neeld started building the fitness level?

The place was a train wreck and we're all looking at a positive outcome. Time to forget Neeld.

Yes... because Paul Roos has always been known as petty, blame shifting and whining. What was your solution to what he was supposed to have said again? Something along the lines of Cameron Schwab's big book of spin? i.e. We all love the club and are bleeding red and blue etc.

You say you want to forget Neeld so forget him and stop trying to make him out to be something he wasn't or trying to make out PR to be something he isn't.

I can take a bit of the defence of Neeld (as you said some of the aerobic fitness did increase under him and some of the party boys were moved on however overall the appointment was a definite failure) but I find the stuff on Roos before he has coached a senior match harder to swallow.

A good coach gets the best out of his players full stop, Mark Neeld not only didn't manage that with any player but he hindered the development of others by putting too much pressure on them, playing them too early, playing them out of position or simply just not understanding that his hard ass'd attitude didn't work for everyone.

Jack Trengove

Jack Watts

Jack Grimes

all fit into this catagory

Roos has had one pre season and has all three in career best form, the whole list loves him and the team is starting to crawl back to where it should have been anyway.

Yes... because Paul Roos has always been known as petty, blame shifting and whining. What was your solution to what he was supposed to have said again? Something along the lines of Cameron Schwab's big book of spin? i.e. We all love the club and are bleeding red and blue etc.

You say you want to forget Neeld so forget him and stop trying to make him out to be something he wasn't or trying to make out PR to be something he isn't.

I can take a bit of the defence of Neeld (as you said some of the aerobic fitness did increase under him and some of the party boys were moved on however overall the appointment was a definite failure) but I find the stuff on Roos before he has coached a senior match harder to swallow.

Colin, you can continue down your cheerleader path.

If bagging out Neeld at every given opportunity is your gateway to healing, go for it.

I'm good. I've moved on. Go Roosy.

Jones as selfish, lol.. I only hear this one on demonland.

Reserved, yes.. Selfish, absolutely not...

Jones leads by example on the field and has always had the respect of the players.

There was a couple of separate groups before Moloney left, it was only natural Nathan would've hang around the older heads - as they were the midfield.

Grimes hung with the younger guys, naturally, therefore him and Trengove got more votes amongst the players.

This doesn't mean players thought Jones was selfish, just that they were swayed more by Grimes and Trengove, we let young kids pick our captains and we have let young kids run our club.. Gave the players too much say, before these players were even AFL grade.

In the meantime, Jones was busy racking up B&F's and was respected by older heads in the game - experts who had actually achieved GREAT feats in the game, not kids who haven't even proven themselves...Roos was a fan of Jones, amongst many in the media - who thought Neeld couldn't run a bath, let alone a club.

Everyone outside of Melbourne known Jones was the logical choice, we went the other way and had no leadership.

Long winded post that just says "Jones was our best player". The entire "leads by example" idea is also just another way of saying "is our best player" - all the good players lead by example, it's an inherent part of being a good player. Leading by example isn't much good if others don't follow though and that has always been my concern re Jones, especially early.