On 28/06/2014 at 03:03, Machsy said:

Matthew Panos?

World beater, that one.

Or Lin Jong?

Yep, setting the world on fire, that kid.

Which one at Sydney? Membrey?

Classic tweener.

Only has inflated rating due to not playing.

If he was getting out on the park you'd see he's not that good.

It's not hard to figure out who might scrape onto an AFL list.

But saying Coniglio is not up to it just makes you look a fool.

JCB does pretty well most times. He was red hot on wanting to bring in Talia a long way out from the draft, back in 2009 (he told me he wanted Talia very early in the '09 season).

But i will say this though John. Saying that Conglio is not up to it (whilst entitled to your opinion) is not one i agree with. I wouldn't call you a fool though.

Classic trade down draft this one. In the NBA, NFL they'd be doing deals to move down spots and pick up prospect players from other teams.

All the talls projected to go early are enormous development picks. I can't see one of them having an impact at AFL level early days. It still staggers me how we landed Jesse who not only has potential to develop more, but is so AFL ready. None of them are having any success dominating the Championships against boys their own size, how they'd produce against men bigger than them is beyond me. My footage is limited to only a few TAC Cup games for Metro players and a few games from the Champs but more concerning is the lack of footy nous from the talls. McCartin, Goddard and Wright were all touted last year as giving us a talls super draft but not one of them fills me with confidence about their ability to demand the footy or lead to the right areas. Body work is okay by McCartin but poor by the others.

Durdin from SA is the last one I want to touch on. Had a poor poor Champs and thankfully showed something on Friday giving some struggling teams confidence he's not a complete drop kick. Still, I think he's half the player Scharenburg is/was and you'll be using a much higher pick to get him.

I like the look of Brayshaw and Petracca, the latter my preferred pick if both available but it's not the draft to set your club up for life. I hope we do something similar to last year and get in a good good young mid for our first rounder and try and gather a pick in the 10-15 range in return. Think there's some good hard running bigger body mids that we could take advantage of. Corey Ellis and Clem Smith would both be great downgrade options that should be available by than and allow us to pick up another player ala Salem deal!

Can't wait for Billy though.

  On 29/06/2014 at 03:28, Arrow said:

their own size, how they'd produce against men bigger than them is beyond me. My footage is limited to only a few TAC Cup games for Metro players and a few games from the Champs but more concerning is the lack of footy nous from the talls. McCartin, Goddard and Wright were all touted last year as giving us a talls super draft but not one of them fills me with confidence about their ability to demand the footy or lead to the right areas. Body work is okay by McCartin but poor by the others.

McCartin is the pick of the bunch, has a touch of mongrel about him like Hogan.

Emma Quayle's wrap:

Midfielders pushing up the order as the 2014 draft pool starts to take shape

And Callum Twomeys pre-phantom rankings:

Phantom Draft Form Guide

  On 04/07/2014 at 01:16, ChaserJ said:

'Callum Twomeys pre-phantom rankings:Phantom Draft Form Guide

  Quote

1. Patrick McCartin (Geelong Falcons/Vic Country)

Tall forward

192cm, 92kg

McCartin is the most natural forward of this year's group. He has some old-fashioned traits: he runs straight out of the goal square, crashes into packs, takes marks and kicks goals. Right in the frame to be the No.1 pick, McCartin has a burly streak where he throws himself at the ball and anyone in the way. Big, strong and physical, McCartin is a terrific overhead mark and judge of the ball in the air.

2. Christian Petracca (Eastern Ranges/Vic Metro)

Midfielder/half-forward

185cm, 92kg

Everything Petracca does is at high intensity. Around the ball he pushes opponents out of the way until it's in his hands, and then takes a few big steps to create separation. After making his name last year as a powerful medium forward, Petracca took another step in the championships by playing through the midfield and winning the Larke Medal as the best player of division one. In five games he averaged 24 disposals and showed there's nobody quite as explosive as him.

3. Peter Wright (Calder Cannons/Vic Metro)

Tall forward/ruckman

203cm, 102kg

Wright hit his straps against South Australia in round four of the championships, dominating in the ruck and around the ground. Recruiters wonder whether he is a ruckman or a forward, but he looks more settled in the centre and roaming around the ground. Wright is an excellent, straight, long kick and is a contender for the No.1 position.

4. Isaac Heeney (Sydney Swans Academy/NSW-ACT)

Midfielder

186cm, 82kg

Explosive, hard, skilled. Heeney can do it all through the midfield and does it consistently. The Swans will have to pay top price for the academy player given his credentials. He averaged 24 disposals over three games through the carnival for NSW/ACT and won the Harrison Medal for the best player in division two. To go with his ferocity at the contests, Heeney offers some spark: he's quick, can jump, and takes the ball at top speed.

5. Darcy Moore (Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro)

Tall forward/defender

199cm, 93kg

When Moore is up and going it is hard to find a key position player who moves like he can. Agile, quick and athletic, Moore shifted around through the carnival, switching from defence to attack and back again. His best game came against Western Australia in round five with four goals, but he looks just as comfortable in defence. Some think the Collingwood father-son recruit would be in the first three or four picks if not already tied to the Pies.

6. Angus Brayshaw (Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro)

Midfielder

187cm, 86kg

A strong and hard-working midfielder who wins his own ball and just keeps on doing it. Brayshaw collects plenty of possessions around contests but has developed some breakaway speed, giving himself enough space and time to deliver on both feet. Brayshaw started his championships with 32 disposals against Vic Country and is right up there with the best midfielders available.

7. Sam Durdin (West Adelaide/South Australia)

Tall forward/defender

196cm, 87kg

Durdin was used in the ruck at times for South Australia, but looked most at home at centre-half back, where his running and contested marking came to the fore on occasions. He missed three months of the year with a broken thumb and hasn't really hit his straps yet, as seen in his quiet game to close the carnival.

8. Tom Lamb (Dandenong Stingrays/Vic Country)

Tall forward/midfielder

193cm, 84kg

An intriguing player given he can do so much that others can't, but doesn't do it consistently. Was playing his best footy earlier in the year as a tall midfielder and wingman, but was used mainly in attack for Vic Country through the championships and didn't hit top form. When up and going, Lamb can turn a game his side's way in a flash and is among the most exciting prospects.

9. Jarrod Pickett (South Fremantle/West Australia)

Midfielder/half-forward

178cm, 76kg

Right up there as the most thrilling player when he's firing. Takes the game on, has brilliant speed and loves to run with the ball tucked under his arm. Pickett has his quiet games but also produces ones that amaze, like his three-goal performance against South Australia. Can leap, take a big mark, land on his feet and then scoot off. When he goes, you just sit back and enjoy.

10. Jordan De Goey (Oakleigh Chargers/Vic Metro)

Midfielder/half-back

187cm, 82kg

De Goey creates plenty of play through the midfield and across half-back with his vision and sure skills. He's competitive and hard but matches that with some class. Tall enough to play a range of positions and talented enough to impact games, there's substance and style to De Goey, and he has some big fans among recruiters.

11. Corey Ellis (Western Jets/Vic Metro)

Midfielder

185cm/76kg

Ellis might not always stand out, but he does everything well. He doesn't waste touches, he can play anywhere from the midfield to half-back, he wins his own ball and is just as handy on the outside with his left-foot disposal. Ellis thinks quick, reads the play, and can see what's going to happen before it unfolds.

12. Jake Lever (Calder Cannons/Vic Metro)

Tall defender

191cm, 82kg

In an even draft Lever's position is perhaps most interesting. Out all of this year with a knee reconstruction, he's this high because of his deeds last season and his approach to his rehabilitation. Seven months since the operation, his recovery is going well, stepping up his running in recent weeks. Lever is an aggressive, tough and commanding key defender.

13. Clem Smith (Perth/West Australia)

Small defender/midfielder

177cm, 67kg

Smith didn't have a standout carnival like last year, when he won All Australian honours as a bottom-aged player, but by now most know how he plays. A crash and bash small, rebounding defender, Smith revels in the physical parts of the game. That was on show against Vic Country in the final game, when he moved forward to kick the winning goal for Western Australia. Smith gave away 19 free kicks during the carnival, but plays on the edge.

14. Lachie Weller (Southport/Gold Coast Academy/Queensland)

Midfielder

181cm, 71kg

Has the skills and temperament to play well through the midfield, and also push forward to hit the scoreboard. Weller can cut through traffic with deceptive speed, and deliver the ball lace-out to teammates. A standout for Queensland during its three-game championships, Weller has the step to get out of trouble and into space, and the smarts to help others do the same.

15. Hugh Goddard (Geelong Falcons/Vic Country)

Tall forward/defender

195cm,92kg

A versatile tall, Goddard struggled to reach his best for Vic Country through the championships. He couldn't find space on the lead as a forward at first, and didn't fit right in when moved to defence. But he finished on a better note, playing well as a backman against WA. When on song, Goddard is comfortable flying for marks, competing hard and fighting for possession.

16. Paul Ahern (Calder Cannons/Vic Metro)

Half-forward/midfielder

181cm, 77kg

Ahern lit up a couple of games for Vic Metro against Western Australia with his pace and skills. In two encounters against WA he gathered a combined 45 disposals and kicked five goals. Ahern, of Indigenous background, has the pace to cut through congestion, the touch to deftly set up others and the composure to take it on himself.

17. Caleb Marchbank (Murray Bushrangers/Vic Country)

Tall forward/defender

193cm, 85kg

Has had injuries in the past but can run at the ball, lead and mark and do it at both ends of the ground. Looked more natural early in the championships as a versatile defender, but showed he was comfortable enough with a move forward later on. Is competitive, mobile and reads the ball well in the air.

18. Jayden Laverde (Western Jets/Vic Metro)

Half-back/midfield

189cm, 82kg

Creative and classy, Laverde has the size and skills to play almost any position. Mainly used across half-back and through the midfield, Laverde tries things with the ball. It usually pays off. The 18-year-old likes to make the play and finished his carnival with an impressive three-goal outing.

19. Connor Blakely (Swan Districts/Western Australia)

Midfielder

186cm, 81kg

Blakely is a tall midfielder who barges through whatever's in front of him to gather possessions. Well-built and able to push others aside, Blakely averaged 21 disposals and seven clearances a game for WA. Has played senior level WAFL and performed well, and finds the ball with a minimum of fuss.

20. Ed Vickers-Willis (Sandringham/Vic Metro)

Tall defender

190cm, 82kg

Quietly goes about his business as a medium/tall backman. Vickers-Willis doesn't possess heaps of flair but gets the job done in defence and worries about that first. Opponents can find it hard to break away from him and he sticks to his task.

And here it comes ...

Winning isn't everything

Tigers supporter mate of mine was moaning that winning against the likes of the Lions yesterday was costing them draft position.

I sad he sounded like a Melbourne / Carlton supporter.

Winning IS everything.

This club just gasnt cottoned on yet !!!

Edited July 6, 201410 yr by beelzebub

Uncertainty continues over this year's number one pick

I haven't been following the Under 18 championships as closely as I have in the past but I have the main games on Foxtel IQ and have watched snippets.

It's clear that Paul Roos proposes to inject more midfield strength into the list so Brayshaw and Petracca stand out above the rest of the pack as midfielders and we could get both depending on what happens with James Frawley and if a suitable swap a la Tyson/pick 9 for Pick 2/pick 20 something can't be arranged. Stretch with a second round pick sounds pretty much par for the course. We would probably need to pull in a tall KPP in trading to cover the loss of Mitch Clark.

If we end up with 2 early picks I think its bankable Roos will do another Tyson-esque trade deal.

Might even do it with both picks. I would. Gives immediate impact.

For mine its about improving the playing list..bettering the best 22 not collecting kids for a rainy day.

  On 06/07/2014 at 01:09, Whispering_Jack said:

Uncertainty continues over this year's number one pick

I haven't been following the Under 18 championships as closely as I have in the past but I have the main games on Foxtel IQ and have watched snippets.

It's clear that Paul Roos proposes to inject more midfield strength into the list so Brayshaw and Petracca stand out above the rest of the pack as midfielders and we could get both depending on what happens with James Frawley and if a suitable swap a la Tyson/pick 9 for Pick 2/pick 20 something can't be arranged. Stretch with a second round pick sounds pretty much par for the course. We would probably need to pull in a tall KPP in trading to cover the loss of Mitch Clark.

'Jack', I think there is no doubt that McCartin will go number one. He didn't have a great championships but has been struggling with injury this year.

As for our midfield; Petracca looks ready made, I'm not convinced about Brayshaw. Think Laverde maybe Fyfe like but could be just Murdoch and really like the look of Gore, not rated yet but if he has some good games at Sturt will come up the list.

Its an incredibly interesting draft from a strategic standpoint. I think a lot of clubs with the first pick would take Peter Wright, but St Kilda has invested pretty heavily in Hickey and Longer, so he doesn't really make a lot of sense for them. I think they'd be at least investigating shopping the pick.

As for us taking Petracca. Admittedly he is a quality player, but you would need to be very confident he has the engine to be a two-way running midfielder, because I don't think he fits in our forward setup equation and it would be overkill adding him to Dawes, Hogan, Pedersen, Gawn, Watts.

I see us trading down and or trading away early picks this year. Not a lot of players make sense and or won't justify being taken that high.

  On 06/07/2014 at 01:14, beelzebub said:

For mine its about improving the playing list..bettering the best 22 not collecting kids for a rainy day.

Like what St Kilda did?

Still think Petracca will be gone by the time we have a selection.

Brayshaw's ability to deliver off both sides of his body is a huge plus.

  On 06/07/2014 at 01:24, Axis of Bob said:

Like what St Kilda did?

Look at the different tac Roos has already taken compare the decade preceding.

I fully expect him to continue that path if not ramp it up.

Stkilda is just a total fukk up

Edited July 6, 201410 yr by beelzebub

  On 06/07/2014 at 01:28, DemonAndrew said:

Still think Petracca will be gone by the time we have a selection.

Brayshaw's ability to deliver off both sides of his body is a huge plus.

Can't see Brisbane or St Kilda not taking a tall.

  On 06/07/2014 at 01:30, beelzebub said:

Look at the dife5tac Roos has already taken compare the decade preceding.

I fully expect him to continue that path if not ramp it up.

Stkilda is just a total fukk up

My point is that everything is a balance. It isn't about only recruiting for now nor is it about only recruiting for the future. It's about a balance.

A of B

My point..accepting yours is previous efforts have upset that balance.

I would think Roos will try to use early picks for goid value workers and look for inspired selections a little later in the draft with picks we get back as change...etc.

Balance would be nice. Scales need an almighty shove in other direction atm to even have a hope of that (balance)

  On 06/07/2014 at 01:46, rjay said:

Can't see Brisbane or St Kilda not taking a tall.

Yes, probably, but I expect we will finish above gws in the long run, and they'll pick him.

  On 06/07/2014 at 02:01, DemonAndrew said:

Yes, probably, but I expect we will finish above gws in the long run, and they'll pick him.

I'm not sure we will finish above them but yes I would expect they would pick him.

  On 06/07/2014 at 01:22, goodoil said:

Its an incredibly interesting draft from a strategic standpoint. I think a lot of clubs with the first pick would take Peter Wright, but St Kilda has invested pretty heavily in Hickey and Longer, so he doesn't really make a lot of sense for them. I think they'd be at least investigating shopping the pick.

As for us taking Petracca. Admittedly he is a quality player, but you would need to be very confident he has the engine to be a two-way running midfielder, because I don't think he fits in our forward setup equation and it would be overkill adding him to Dawes, Hogan, Pedersen, Gawn, Watts.

I see us trading down and or trading away early picks this year. Not a lot of players make sense and or won't justify being taken that high.

I've only seen the televised games this year, so I really have very little idea about what's happening.

That said, it seems like the first group of players all still have some pretty big flaws that mean that none are a stand out choice. St Kilda seem to like McCartin (probably for the reasons you mentioned, as they are going to be looking for a go-to forward to replace Riewoldt). I like Durdin, despite his lack of output in the games I saw, although probably more as a rebounding key defender. As for the midfielders, there wasn't really a midfielder that stood up and showed why they were better than everyone else. You mentioned Petracca and Brayshaw leave me a little underwhelmed with his lack of explosiveness (which we need).

I think we'll do well to trade down as the players we'd be more interested in are likely to be available at 10+, which seems to be where most of the skilled runners appear to be.

  On 06/07/2014 at 02:19, Axis of Bob said:

I think we'll do well to trade down as the players we'd be more interested in are likely to be available at 10+, which seems to be where most of the skilled runners appear to be.

So you do advocate trading and using latter picks. Funny thought that was the exact point I proposed

  On 06/07/2014 at 02:32, beelzebub said:

So you do advocate trading and using latter picks. Funny thought that was the exact point I proposed

You: "For mine its about improving the playing list..bettering the best 22 not collecting kids for a rainy day."

This is the direct quote I responded to. I then told you that it's about a balance between improving the best 22 and also picking kids for the future. You then agreed with me that balance is something we should be trying to achieve.

I don't see where I said we shouldn't downtrade our early picks.

  On 28/06/2014 at 05:07, Demon Disciple said:

JCB does pretty well most times. He was red hot on wanting to bring in Talia a long way out from the draft, back in 2009 (he told me he wanted Talia very early in the '09 season).

But i will say this though John. Saying that Conglio is not up to it (whilst entitled to your opinion) is not one i agree with. I wouldn't call you a fool though.

and I put him onto DTalia as well. & JCB is not a fool. he's a loyal & committed Demon Patriot.

Not wanting to get into your argument with 'BB' 'Axis' but I agree that it is about balance. We had an imbalance in the list and it's obvious that it will take more than the last draft to address it.

There seems to be a few chances to pick up good players later in the first round or beyond this draft but that's just from an outsiders view. I'm sure the club will be across it and make the right decision come the time.

We have to have quality young kids coming in every year or we set ourselves up for failure down the track, if we can get them later in the first round all the better.

A lot will depend on what pick or picks we have.