No but I'm saying the one's who can do enough to limit the impact of a Cox/Sandilands are extremely important and not every team has one at the time they need it. Max Bailey is the latest premiership ruckman who was a dime a dozen player but if they Hawks didn't have him they might not have won the grand final.

Same can be said for full backs. Obviously a very good one is great but as long as you have a decent one who doesn't get exploited you can make do. Again it's a lesson Hawthorn learnt losing big games with Schoenmakers.

Spencer and Gawn are both very close to the level at which they can limit the impact of their direct opponent, which particularly for Spencer is what I want to see from him. Jamar rose to a level above that but now is probably not quite at that level again. Rucks become unimportant when they cancel each other out. When the opposition get a bonus midfielder capable of taking marks around the ground AND/OR a guy who wins 80% of the hit outs and spoon feeds his midfielders then the team is in trouble.

There's plenty that can "limit" the impact.

Btw, you've become incredibly verbose.

Mumford didn't impress me last year, and apart from Ryder, I can see Spencer being able to nullify all of those other names. I really think you overrate some of those ruckmen, remember, all I said was Spencer would be able to compete with them, give us some clean footy, and follow them around the ground.

All those ruckmen J-Viney mentioned have Spencer covered in most facets of the game.

I think you're simplifyingthe role a 2014 ruckman needs to play..

Spencer is next to useless wen he goes forward, he can't mark for a giant, can't kick, can't handball, is still not aggressive enough.

He competes in rucking contest and tries hard to apply pressure when in the vicinity of an opposition player with the ball. It's the bare minimum RP.

Having two rotating ruckmen that have the ability to play a forward role is what most teams have. Spencer is filling in time while the other tall timber are injured.

We need to find a ruckman who doesn't put us one man down in the midfield. Unfortunately our current crop do, Clark being the exception but more likely to play forward with some time on ball as Roos has flagged when he gets back.

If Currie doesn't get games at North this year I reckon we should make a play, would be a good ready made inclusion.

All those ruckmen J-Viney mentioned have Spencer covered in most facets of the game.

I think you're simplifyingthe role a 2014 ruckman needs to play..

Spencer is next to useless wen he goes forward, he can't mark for a giant, can't kick, can't handball, is still not aggressive enough.

He competes in rucking contest and tries hard to apply pressure when in the vicinity of an opposition player with the ball. It's the bare minimum RP.

Having two rotating ruckmen that have the ability to play a forward role is what most teams have. Spencer is filling in time while the other tall timber are injured.

If I am oversimplifying ruckmen in 2014, you are overestimating them.

I just don't see many ruckmen out there that this limited footballer couldn't compete with.

I can't see any reason why Gawn can't develop into a solid AFL ruckman, these big blokes take time.

Spencer almost throws a spanner in the works because, Gawn , Fitzy and Clark can all play ruck/ forward well and have more tricks.

There's plenty that can "limit" the impact.

Btw, you've become incredibly verbose.

I not convinced we have one our list right at the moment. And it's not a major concern for us but if you are a top team you can't be caught short without one like Geelong were last year and Collingwood were in their GF against Brisbane. So when you say ruckman are overrated I argue. That's all. I'm verbose because others here are overly blunt. There's no point coming to demonland to just read a bunch of off hand statements without explanation. I over explain because I think the repetition is often needed.

Spencer almost throws a spanner in the works because, Gawn , Fitzy and Clark can all play ruck/ forward well and have more tricks.

It's good spanner. Spencer and Gawn fight for the first ruck job, Fitzy and Clark for the back up job. Plus there are combinations. In a good hard running side you can probably get away with Gawn as the second ruck especially if you can sub off Spencer in the last quarter and use a key forward to do the 5 minutes rucking needed. Fitzy can be a key forward as well. I like Jake and I hope he has improved enough that he and Gawn have an honest battle and raise each others standards.

It's good spanner. Spencer and Gawn fight for the first ruck job, Fitzy and Clark for the back up job. Plus there are combinations. In a good hard running side you can probably get away with Gawn as the second ruck especially if you can sub off Spencer in the last quarter and use a key forward to do the 5 minutes rucking needed. Fitzy can be a key forward as well. I like Jake and I hope he has improved enough that he and Gawn have an honest battle and raise each others standards.

i don't think many good teams would be subbing out their no1 ruck man....

i don't think many good teams would be subbing out their no1 ruck man....

when hawthorn was playing Bailey and Hale it was often the occurance in order to get more run through the team

Think two specialist Tillman will be harder to maintain with our Young side and the interchange cap, we might need the extra legs to much, gain and Clark for me

Think two specialist Tillman will be harder to maintain with our Young side and the interchange cap, we might need the extra legs to much, gain and Clark for me

The predictive text is having a good morning 'D26', but you're right we won't be going in with 2 specialist rucks in season.

The predictive text is having a good morning 'D26', but you're right we won't be going in with 2 specialist rucks in season.

Yeah it's a pain haha,

Think two specialist Tillman will be harder to maintain with our Young side and the interchange cap, we might need the extra legs to much, gain and Clark for me

it depends how you judge players and obviously on injury aswell. i feel that the only 2 ruckman that cant play together are Spencer and Jamar.

i would be happy to see a line up of Jamar and Gawn, Spencer and Gawn, due to the fact that gawn would play as the fwd/ruck.

it is nice to have an abundance of talls who i feel are all capable to play respectably at afl level

it depends how you judge players and obviously on injury aswell. i feel that the only 2 ruckman that cant play together are Spencer and Jamar.

i would be happy to see a line up of Jamar and Gawn, Spencer and Gawn, due to the fact that gawn would play as the fwd/ruck.

it is nice to have an abundance of talls who i feel are all capable to play respectably at afl level

with the interchange cap in place Clark or Fitz will provide relief ruck, the main ruckman will be decided by who is the best ruckman, also most effective around the ground, also who has the ability to play forward, for mine gawn isn't our best out and out ruckman, has the potential to develop in that area though, he is the best around the ground we have, and he can play forward better than spencer or Jamar imo

33 degrees forecast for Alice Springs on Friday so that is not as bad as it could have been.

Go Dees.

A win by 1 point!

33 degrees forecast for Alice Springs on Friday so that is not as bad as it could have been.

Go Dees.

A win by 1 point!

Didn't you call a win last game too OD?

with the interchange cap in place Clark or Fitz will provide relief ruck, the main ruckman will be decided by who is the best ruckman, also most effective around the ground, also who has the ability to play forward, for mine gawn isn't our best out and out ruckman, has the potential to develop in that area though, he is the best around the ground we have, and he can play forward better than spencer or Jamar imo

Clark for sure and maybe Fitzy but I think Roos will be keen to play 2 rucks instead of Fitzy unless he's improved his ruck work a lot since last year. I totally agree we want as much run as possible with a young side but Roos will still base the game plan on stoppages and that means rucking is important. I think Gawn and Fitzy are in a pretty tight battle to back up Spencer in round 1. For that reason both will be keen for a big game on Friday.

Even though his chances of taking clean grabs and slotting goals are pretty remote maybe with some new found confidence and his athleticism Spencer won't actually be a complete disaster up forward. You never know.

33 degrees forecast for Alice Springs on Friday so that is not as bad as it could have been.

Go Dees.

A win by 1 point!

And with no injuries...

Didn't you call a win last game too OD?

No cannot claim that one. Thought we would get done.

Unfortunately my confidence is zero

Clark for sure and maybe Fitzy but I think Roos will be keen to play 2 rucks instead of Fitzy unless he's improved his ruck work a lot since last year. I totally agree we want as much run as possible with a young side but Roos will still base the game plan on stoppages and that means rucking is important. I think Gawn and Fitzy are in a pretty tight battle to back up Spencer in round 1. For that reason both will be keen for a big game on Friday.

Even though his chances of taking clean grabs and slotting goals are pretty remote maybe with some new found confidence and his athleticism Spencer won't actually be a complete disaster up forward. You never know.

certainly couldn't play 4 big forwards if you're going to have clark, dawes and hogan all playing, so i'd say if it's our best 22 it's Spencer/Gawn/jamar and Clark always have Watts, Hogan and co to chop out

certainly couldn't play 4 big forwards if you're going to have clark, dawes and hogan all playing, so i'd say if it's our best 22 it's Spencer/Gawn/jamar and Clark always have Watts, Hogan and co to chop out

Definitely. I'm just talking round 1 and not planning on Clark until he's back on track.

By the way it's so good Fox are doing all these nab challenge games. No way in the past that Melb v Geel in Alice gets on TV. We'd be lucky to get single camera coverage like the port game last year

Definitely. I'm just talking round 1 and not planning on Clark until he's back on track.

By the way it's so good Fox are doing all these nab challenge games. No way in the past that Melb v Geel in Alice gets on TV. We'd be lucky to get single camera coverage like the port game last year

Not sure that is correct t m

in March 2013 who wanted to see either the MFC or Port?

A lot of people would want to see Geelong!

Definitely. I'm just talking round 1 and not planning on Clark until he's back on track.

By the way it's so good Fox are doing all these nab challenge games. No way in the past that Melb v Geel in Alice gets on TV. We'd be lucky to get single camera coverage like the port game last year

Yeah, my thinking is that Roos will look to keep alot of the same structure, if clark isn't in Fitzy or Pederson would be next in line,

it's fantastic the 18 games in 18 days plan they have at the moment