The Fairfax papers are for the leftwing loonies so I guess you don't read them, do you? I'm sure that any fair minded Labor supporter would abhor the way the Fairfax Papers have degenerated in to irrelevance.

Why would someone that supports the right be a nutter? Is it because they have a different view to you?

Further to our conversation Robbie, my favorite read has always been the Truth's Heartbalm. I hope that clarifies my political allegiances.

I wish I had your optimism Whisper. It is a long time after the event. Why the confidence?

Not optimism RTG but realism. I spent nine years as a member of an athletics club executive when the anti doping laws were being refined. They're designed to overcome the pressure of corruption in sporting bodies. Ultimately, WADA will have to prevail in this or we will sink as a sporting nation on the international scene. It's far bigger than the AFL or even Vlad.

The sun will rise in the east tomorrow just as the infraction notices will come one day soon. They are unstoppable.

I hope they aren't because that would mean we could sleep easy; that the drug squad has moved on. But if the Bombers players cop itinfractions that would mean we are still in the firing line. We don't need that Shyte hanging around us next year. We need a clear run for the first time in how many years?

Not optimism RTG but realism. I spent nine years as a member of an athletics club executive when the anti doping laws were being refined. They're designed to overcome the pressure of corruption in sporting bodies. Ultimately, WADA will have to prevail in this or we will sink as a sporting nation on the international scene. It's far bigger than the AFL or even Vlad.

I really don't know enough about WADA. Have they a track record of coming over the top as it were?

I hope they aren't because that would mean we could sleep easy; that the drug squad has moved on. But if the Bombers players cop itinfractions that would mean we are still in the firing line. We don't need that Shyte hanging around us next year. We need a clear run for the first time in how many years?

Surely Hood our situation is a little different?

What I don't get is that ASADA and WADA seem to therefore have two different takes on the one issue. As I said, I really don't know enough about either other than what I read in Zoo Weekly and the Herald Sun.

Robbie, I'm trying to meet your misplaced anger with good humor. Perhaps reread the posts and I think it's fair to say that you have jumped the gun....as you gun toting, inbred, Menzies loving types are oft to do. I accept your apology. Say no more.

Is that an example of your "good humour", some might find that highly offensive. But I wouldn't expect your apology.

I can see my anger wasn't misplaced.

Is that an example of your "good humour", some might find that highly offensive. But I wouldn't expect your apology.

I can see my anger wasn't misplaced.

So how do you think Sam Blease will go next season?

Surely Hood our situation is a little different?

Does anyone know what our situation was and is? Dr Norman Bate and his close mate Danks who knows what they were up to!

I thought it was around seeking advice for Trenner's injury but that they didn't proceed down a disastrous path Hood. The last bit of that sentence may be a little shaky though.

I really don't know enough about WADA. Have they a track record of coming over the top as it were?

The list of those involved in doping offences in sport is longer than your arm and is growing by the day. It contains those who have been found, or have admitted to, having taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs, prohibited recreational drugs or have been suspended by a sporting body for failure to submit to mandatory drug testing. There are individuals and teams involved and all you need is google. Some of the names will surprise.

WADA takes its role pretty seriously and won't allow an AFL club whose captain has all but confessed to taking a banned substance and that had a regime of injecting players with substances whose identity is said to be unknown by club officials to get away with it because they apparently didn't keep records.

I suspect that there are be many ways to ultimately produce the evidence whether or not Dank comes up with his records. I think there's a fair chance that those records will eventually surface because if Dank faces criminal charges his defence will look very sick if he's destroyed them. And, if there are future health issues involving the Essendon players as a result of what they were given by Dank, he's going to look even more sick if his records have been lost or destroyed.

The list of those involved in doping offences in sport is longer than your arm and is growing by the day. It contains those who have been found, or have admitted to, having taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs, prohibited recreational drugs or have been suspended by a sporting body for failure to submit to mandatory drug testing. There are individuals and teams involved and all you need is google. Some of the names will surprise.

WADA takes its role pretty seriously and won't allow an AFL club whose captain has all but confessed to taking a banned substance and that had a regime of injecting players with substances whose identity is said to be unknown by club officials to get away with it because they apparently didn't keep records.

I suspect that there are be many ways to ultimately produce the evidence whether or not Dank comes up with his records. I think there's a fair chance that those records will eventually surface because if Dank faces criminal charges his defence will look very sick if he's destroyed them. And, if there are future health issues involving the Essendon players as a result of what they were given by Dank, he's going to look even more sick if his records have been lost or destroyed.

But can they force individuals, teams to court?

But can they force individuals, teams to court?

In Dank's case, I would imagine the prosecution if it comes would be via the ACC which kicked this off when investigating the money trail of prohibited drugs through criminal elements.

Thanks WJ. It's always the money trail.

The list of those involved in doping offences in sport is longer than your arm and is growing by the day. It contains those who have been found, or have admitted to, having taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs, prohibited recreational drugs or have been suspended by a sporting body for failure to submit to mandatory drug testing. There are individuals and teams involved and all you need is google. Some of the names will surprise.

WADA takes its role pretty seriously and won't allow an AFL club whose captain has all but confessed to taking a banned substance and that had a regime of injecting players with substances whose identity is said to be unknown by club officials to get away with it because they apparently didn't keep records.

I suspect that there are be many ways to ultimately produce the evidence whether or not Dank comes up with his records. I think there's a fair chance that those records will eventually surface because if Dank faces criminal charges his defence will look very sick if he's destroyed them. And, if there are future health issues involving the Essendon players as a result of what they were given by Dank, he's going to look even more sick if his records have been lost or destroyed.

WJ what about us? Where do we stand?

The AFL negotiated a settlement with Essendon - wowee big breaking news!!!

They negotiated a settlement with MFC on the tanking allegations as well.

A total nothing story with News Ltd trailing Fairfax by 3 months that Wylie was involved in mediating the negotiations.

What would be news is if the AFL negotiated a final outcome with WADA/ASADA in this matter.

Absolutely. Total no news item. Most of this was basically known months ago. Nothing revealing here.

Spot on.

What's the big deal? Behind the tough bravado the EFC and AFL were always going to try and make a deal.

The AFL sanctions were a farce - this all ends with ASADA.

What gets me about this is that Essendon has so far managed its playing group well in the circumstances. Despite seemingly being treated with utter contempt by their clubs on terms of the apparent concealment of the drugs they were injected with, there's been no player revolt and they seem to be unified and focussed on succeeding.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens to team morale when the infraction notices start issuing.

don't hold your breath WJ.

It now seems that maybe the off field leaders will get banged up via a 3 day old lettuce leaf. & paid holiday $ into the bargain

So which Essendon players have been found guilty of illegal drug use?

That's the problem.

I have 2 very simple questions that I believe should be answered in order to prevent such a huge pile of mess like this ever happening again.

1) What the hell is the ACC and why do we have a commission against crime that has no powers to police or prosecute? Why are we paying taxes to fund a body that will gather evidence that becomes useless.

2) Why are ASADA and WADA different entities. Why isn't there just an Australian branch of WADA.

Back on topic I see no significant new information here. Essendon and the AFL negotiated the settlement which is standard AFL practice and I'm not fussed by their choice of negotiator. There's also been rehashing of the Evans/Demetriou phone calls and again it doesn't worry me.

The most fascinating aspect for me of this story has always been the nature of the drugs given to the Essendon players. And by that I mean whether they were safe and whether they were legal. We've been at this for months and we still don't have definitive answers to those questions.

Asada is the Australian branch of wada

So which Essendon players have been found guilty of illegal drug use?

That's the problem.

There's no problem. You don't have to be found guilty of illegal drug use to be guilty of a WADA/ASADA infringement. Exhibit A: Wade Lees. Never took anything, in fact, never even had the products he was connected with in his possession. There are plenty of similar cases.

Further, the onus is on the player/athlete to prove their innocence, not on ASADA to prove their guilt.

Asada is the Australian branch of wada

Hmm. Not quite. WADA sets the protocols, oversees the research, certifies the labs etc. etc. However, they do NOT do any testing themselves.

ASADA and equivalent organisations in each country do the dirty work in making sure the WADA code is followed and implemented by the national sporting bodies. For example, for the US version, USADA:

"Its work includes in-competition and out-of-competition testing, the results management and adjudication process, the provision of drug reference resources, the therapeutic-use exemption process, various scientific research initiatives, and athlete and outreach education."

The tragedy in all of this is we still have no idea what Stephen Dank gave to the players at that time. The players and their well being should always have been at the forefront of the investigation, yet the AFL and Essendon were more focused on how they would look on the other side of the saga rather than what actually went on.

I know the ASADA investigation continues, but even that feels like it will be a joke outcome.

It won't be. It is just a matter of time before justice will be dispensed no matter what the AFL, EFC, Paul Little, or James Hird might do or think. The train has left the station and there is nothing they can do about it.

Mark Robinson has shown bias and blind prejudice in this matter, and has brought into question his competence to be a senior journalist with the reading public, and now also apparently within News Ltd itself. Rupert was reportedly less than impressed that Farfax scooped the pool with the major prizes at the Walkleys (sp?) for investigative journalism and sports reporting. There will be consequences for Robinson and his ilk, and rightly so.

WJ what about us? Where do we stand?

I understand that we'll be investigated and the outcome will depend on the evidence. We seem to be in a different league to Essendon where Dank was front and centre in their drug programme while in our case it seems he was giving some advice to one one of the club's doctors without the club's knowledge. Notwithstanding, a small number of our players, possibly as low as one, might be at risk.

There's no problem. You don't have to be found guilty of illegal drug use to be guilty of a WADA/ASADA infringement. Exhibit A: Wade Lees. Never took anything, in fact, never even had the products he was connected with in his possession. There are plenty of similar cases.

Further, the onus is on the player/athlete to prove their innocence, not on ASADA to prove their guilt.

Wade Lees got banned for importing a prohibited substance under the guise of an attempted use of a prohibited substance.

Wade Lees situation is different to mystery of linking the Danks supplied supplements to individual players. Lees is a straightforward situation relative to this mess.

The issue of linking alleged substances with individual players based on supportable and defensible evidence would be critical to issuing infraction notices.