hang on, which teams do we clash with?

freo

port

carlton

GWS

lions

saints

dogs.

bombers

having a red jumper and/or the 70s royal blue jumper would alleviate most of those clashes. there is no reason for us to wear white away to freo when red would be sufficient. same with port, carlton the dogs and bombers.

for the saints and bombers, the royal blue would be perfect.

as for the lions - if they wore their Fitzroy colours there is no problem.

THIS is why wearing white is BS - because we could keep our colours and not clash.

teams in the EPL have 3 strips. their home strip usually involves 2 colours - the away strip usually inverts those colours. For example Tottenham are mostly white with some blue - their away is blue with some white. (generally speaking)

in cases where they play teams that are blue and white like QPR, they will use a third colour that Is totally random, but that only happens once every so often and Is usually a marketing thing as well.

Many here are mixing up the winning and losing element associated with the jumper design and colours.

Others (like me) are arguing the pure aesthetics of the design and colours and are not even considering the winning and losing element.

We're on a completely different page.

id also like to add, that if we absolutely HAVE to go white (and in the case of playing the saints I can kinda understand) - to go FULL WHITE, with just port Adelaide style red and blue strips - I really dislike the blue under the armpits against the saints as it just makes the clash worse.

Many here are mixing up the winning and losing element associated with the jumper design and colours.

Others (like me) are arguing the pure aesthetics of the design and colours and are not even considering the winning and losing element.

We're on a completely different page.

I see where you're coming from Macca.

I guess some of us are cynical when this talk comes up as these kind of penny ante parlor tricks substituted for actual long term football planning.

I guess on our end, as supporters, we should be able to have these discussions. I just hope the men at the top aren't wasting time on piddling matters such as these.

hang on, which teams do we clash with?

freo

port

carlton

GWS

lions

saints

dogs.

bombers

having a red jumper and/or the 70s royal blue jumper would alleviate most of those clashes. there is no reason for us to wear white away to freo when red would be sufficient. same with port, carlton the dogs and bombers.

for the saints and bombers, the royal blue would be perfect.

as for the lions - if they wore their Fitzroy colours there is no problem.

THIS is why wearing white is BS - because we could keep our colours and not clash.

teams in the EPL have 3 strips. their home strip usually involves 2 colours - the away strip usually inverts those colours. For example Tottenham are mostly white with some blue - their away is blue with some white. (generally speaking)

in cases where they play teams that are blue and white like QPR, they will use a third colour that Is totally random, but that only happens once every so often and Is usually a marketing thing as well.

It's about light and dark jumpers, that's the policy the AFL and all teams adhere to it (even Collingwood and Essendon).

I see where you're coming from Macca.

I guess some of us are cynical when this talk comes up as these kind of penny ante parlor tricks substituted for actual long term football planning.

I guess on our end, as supporters, we should be able to have these discussions. I just hope the men at the top aren't wasting time on piddling matters such as these.

I see the jumper design and colours as one of the clubs core values. I associate the club with the "Red and the blue" It's not a "piddling" matter for many of us. It's one of the reasons why we started supporting the club in the first place.

Winning games of footy is more important obviously, but traditions can also be adhered to as a matter of course.

Test cricketers of all nations all play in the same uniform - white's (and believe it or not, I don't have a problem with that )

It's about light and dark jumpers, that's the policy the AFL and all teams adhere to it (even Collingwood and Essendon).

are you telling me that wearing a mostly red jumper against port's black jumper that it wouldnt be light v dark?

are you telling me that wearing a mostly red jumper against port's black jumper that it wouldnt be light v dark?

According to the AFL, yes.

I see where you're coming from Macca.

I guess some of us are cynical when this talk comes up as these kind of penny ante parlor tricks substituted for actual long term football planning.

I guess on our end, as supporters, we should be able to have these discussions. I just hope the men at the top aren't wasting time on piddling matters such as these.

Totally agree with your last paragraph CBF

Many here are mixing up the winning and losing element associated with the jumper design and colours.

Others (like me) are arguing the pure aesthetics of the design and colours and are not even considering the winning and losing element.

We're on a completely different page.

No, OD (and I agree) that apart of the disdain for the white jumpers has been because of our performance in them.

No, OD (and I agree) that apart of the disdain for the white jumpers has been because of our performance in them.

If there was a like button I would press it

as for the performance in the white jumper - we ended essendons season twice in white... good times

No, OD (and I agree) that apart of the disdain for the white jumpers has been because of our performance in them.

I don't associate the performances (good or bad) with the white jumper (that's the 3rd time I've said that in as many posts)

Some on your side of the argument seem convinced that the other side of the argument is about the winning and the losing in the white "monstrosity". You may be right in some cases but not with many others (certainly not mine)

I've never liked it and never will. I do understand that we're probably stuck with it but I don't have to accept or like it.

Are we all supposed to just fall into line like dutiful subjects? It's often best to question things - that doesn't have to extend to a fall off in support. To me, this is like critiquing a player, coach or an administrator.

With regards to the AFL's ruling on the subject - a deal could be done.

I don't associate the performances (good or bad) with the white jumper (that's the 3rd time I've said that in as many posts)

Some on your side of the argument seem convinced that the other side of the argument is about the winning and the losing in the white "monstrosity". You may be right in some cases but not with many others (certainly not mine)

I've never liked it and never will. I do understand that we're probably stuck with it but I don't have to accept or like it.

Are we all supposed to just fall into line like dutiful subjects? It's often best to question things - that doesn't have to extend to a fall off in support. To me, this is like critiquing a player, coach or an administrator.

With regards to the AFL's ruling on the subject - a deal could be done.

You can make these points all you like - I, and OD, am just making the point that some see the white jumper as a Rorschach-like test of patheticness because of the performance that have been of the last few years.

This is well-trodden argument on here. It really is a side-show to important issues. I can give you a quick rundown of a few years ago when I was defending the use of the white jumpers:

- MFC used to play in cricket whites back when the game was invented.

- The style is as important as the colours. Anything other than Red yoke with navy blue is a different style and all different styles are equally as abhorrent - for instance: the inverse colours, the awful light blue from the 70s, the red with the flamboyant flame M from a few years ago.

- All teams have to have them

- Even the Bombers have that awful grey thing, Coll is unlucky enough to have white as one its colours so it is easy for them.

- White is better than that silver/grey thing from a few years ago.

I think that was it...could be more.

And, just out of interest, what deal do you think could be done with the AFL?

And, just out of interest, what deal do you think could be done with the AFL?

I'd have a few ideas to put to the AFL if I was in such a position to do so ... unless of course, anyone honestly believes the AFL never changes their mind on anything.

Perhaps something along the lines of keeping our basic colours in a different design ... I believe the AFL would be open to suggestions. It may not be the closed door that many might believe.

You can make these points all you like - I, and OD, am just making the point that some see the white jumper as a Rorschach-like test of patheticness because of the performance that have been of the last few years.

This is well-trodden argument on here. It really is a side-show to important issues. I can give you a quick rundown of a few years ago when I was defending the use of the white jumpers:

- MFC used to play in cricket whites back when the game was invented.

- The style is as important as the colours. Anything other than Red yoke with navy blue is a different style and all different styles are equally as abhorrent - for instance: the inverse colours, the awful light blue from the 70s, the red with the flamboyant flame M from a few years ago.

- All teams have to have them

- Even the Bombers have that awful grey thing, Coll is unlucky enough to have white as one its colours so it is easy for them.

- White is better than that silver/grey thing from a few years ago.

I think that was it...could be more.

And, just out of interest, what deal do you think could be done with the AFL?

Common sense, perhaps a presentation with comparison pictures to show that we don't need a white jumper? If our club has the bravado. The two predominantly red teams, Gold Coast and Sydney, we wear our home jumper+shorts against anyway. It's mad. And a red jumper would look a lot more attractive against teams like st.kilda or essendon, the AFL cares about the TV spectacle. Enough of some scrappy vandalisation of our home jumper where someone's coloured in 70% of it white. Better than that grey thing it may be, it looks daggy. There's way too many white jumpers in the AFL anyway, most of them look amateurish too

I see where you're coming from Macca.

I guess some of us are cynical when this talk comes up as these kind of penny ante parlor tricks substituted for actual long term football planning.

I guess on our end, as supporters, we should be able to have these discussions. I just hope the men at the top aren't wasting time on piddling matters such as these.

They clearly are wasting a lot of time on this, every club has had significant jumper changes in the past couple of years

I really like the clash strip.

Can't imagine one being any better.

The only issue I have is how often we have to wear it, when it should be up to the opposition.

This is what I think would make an ideal alternative strip under the AFL's current policy:-

Just replace the maroon with our traditional red (& get rid of the Dragon logo) and it looks like a football jumper and not the imitation Swans kit we currently wear.

^^spot on - if we have to have white

This is what I think would make an ideal alternative strip under the AFL's current policy:-

Just replace the maroon with our traditional red (& get rid of the Dragon logo) and it looks like a football jumper and not the imitation Swans kit we currently wear.

Isn't the current one imitating our own guernsey?

Everyone knows that there is no legitimate reason to have a different jumper for the reason that they clash

Its always been about the opportunity to make more money

Money that clubs use and need and that is the line AFL officials use as their standard answer

Being a traditional and purist supporter i am very anti clash jumper

Being part of the AFL Rules its a losing argument

At least from a Demon supporter perspective we no longer have to wear that Silver away jumper

I really find it hard to believe that after all this time people still can't accept that we have no choice but to wear white.

There is so much nostalgic foot stomping on this site it's ridiculous.

We could win multiple grand finals in that white "monstrosity" of a jumper and I'd probably still hate it. We're red and blue and that's all there is to it. This debate should not be about whether we win or lose in other colours - it should simply be about our traditional values and the aesthetics of the design and colours of the jumper.

We're the Melbourne football club, we play our games at the Melbourne cricket ground (predominantly) we're called the Demons and we should always wear the red and blue. Stuff what the League says - we do things our way. We could do what the Pies have done - a clever, slight adjustment which appeased their fans and the AFL.

The biggest issue with the "unsightly" white jumper is that it doesn't even remotely resemble our traditional jumper - it's like watching another club play. At issue here is the stark difference from our traditional jumper that the predominantly white jumper causes.

Even a reverse of our jumper could be implemented but I don't believe we necessarily need to go that far ( a version with the red V being decidedly larger and/or the navy blue could be switched to royal blue when a clash of jumpers arises) A reverse of our traditional colours on our traditional jumper could be implemented as a last resort.

Having said all that, we're probably stuck with the white "thing"

This reads like WYL wrote it.

To say the away jumper 'doesn't even remotely resemble our traditional jumper' is biased nonsense - one is white, one is blue, but they both have the same distinctive red V.

are you telling me that wearing a mostly red jumper against port's black jumper that it wouldnt be light v dark?

The fact that a red jumper would avoid a clash with Port does not solve the issue, because a red jumper doesn't solve the issues with Adelaide, Essendon or St Kilda.

With regards to the AFL's ruling on the subject - a deal could be done.

How ridiculous.

I have tried to resist but with no like button feeling compelled to indicate my support for many of the arguments I would place foremost Maccas attempts to placate many of objections and his reasonable submission

I would further like to see him prepare a submission to the club for presentation to the AFL

Like him I believe there are powerful reasons to argue for our red and blue (consider the theme song being belted out on national TV when we win in the white strip. A striking conflict? The AFL may have forgotten that this can happen)

and I believe that the AFL are also about asthetics and will understand that contrast can occur with red and blue with no white required.

And if we can show that as we win our increasing support base will continue to buy greater numbers of jumpers the economics can be satisfied.

Aesthetically I don't mind the white jumper, and the association with failure will very soon become a thing of the past.