Jack Watts

[Vanilla Gorilla 204]

I'm sure it's been posted here on numerous occasions, but it seems apt to mention it again. Adam Goodes has publicly stated that his biggest weakness upon entering the AFL system was his aggression/appetite for the contest. But, with competent coaching staff and older teammates mentoring him, he was able to improve that aspect of his game.

Aggression can be learned. Wattsy may not become a Jack Viney, but he can improve at least enough to become AFL average.

It's up to Jack whether he WANTS to.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

I must say Ive always found player's vital stats to be , well, somewhat fudgy at times. I've stood next to White and Bruce with a mate of mine. He's 6'3 and I'm 6'2 ..I can tell you neither White nor Bruce were as advertised !! Same goes for many other players......just saying

I just find all the talk about Watts is boring.

Please wake me when he consistantly does exciting things on field otherwise just past the pillow as its nap time again.

Edited November 6, 2013 by TheBigFrog

[binman 42,738]

Sorry Binman, not really sure what you are saying, although I can see that you're no agreeing!

The comment that was made by the tackling coach is something that makes perfect sense to me, and something I totally agree with. A player needs agression from the start, and if it's there, it can either be developed or fine tuned, depending on what level the player is at with it. If it's something that is virtually non-existent (like in Watts' case), then you are far better spending your time developing other areas of his game.

Don't get me wrong, I love Jacky, but I'm not expecting Roos or Stone to develop something that aint there. I do however expect them to develop him in other areas to become a very good footballer.

No i wasn't very clear i suppose. What i meant was that perhaps the tackling coach is right that aggression can't be coached. However i believe it is possible for players to develop their aggression themselves. In fact i think Watts himself has improved his aggression and was more prepared to go in hard last year (eg go back with the flight). I reckon he will 'play'for Roos and who knows might be more prepared to get hurt for him.

Green is a player that many believe developed more aggression. I'm sure there are others (though most soft players remain soft).

[alias275 259]

I also think that people can develop that area of their game. And he has the size to back it up.

I can personally relate to this and yes it can be taught.

It does take some time to gain the confidence and you can easily switch back to your old ways (staying out of contests knowing your light frame will come off second best). Though once you learn how to use your body (after gaining muscle mass), football becomes a completely different game to a once tall skinny boy.

I truly hope Jack makes it happen this year. He's had that stronger frame for a few seasons now, so it's time to start using it.

[alias275 259]

They need to get another 5kg into him. He was reported as 196cm and 91kg last year. That's a body that's not big enough to go hard.

Agreed.

I am the same height as Watts, I'll start a season at 103kg and it'll work back to around 97-98kg during the season (with maintaining gym).

The difference between 91kg and 97kg is huge. May not seem a lot in numbers, but in a body on body contest, it's a bucket load.

[binman 42,738]

Point Gaurd for Australia under 18's I believe?

That's impressive. Actually i can see him playing a point guard role under Roos. Outside receiver who distributes the ball to team mates and sets up scoring plays.

[The Chazz 4,077]

No i wasn't very clear i suppose. What i meant was that perhaps the tackling coach is right that aggression can't be coached. However i believe it is possible for players to develop their aggression themselves. In fact i think Watts himself has improved his aggression and was more prepared to go in hard last year (eg go back with the flight). I reckon he will 'play'for Roos and who knows might be more prepared to get hurt for him.

Green is a player that many believe developed more aggression. I'm sure there are others (though most soft players remain soft).

Don't get agression and courage mixed up.

Courage is what will help take a mark running back with the flight. Agression is what makes you want to drive someone in to the ground when you tackle them. Agression isn't something you think about, it's just something that is in your nature. Courage is something that you do have an option with.

Green was a far more courageous player than agressive. I never once thought he had an agressive bone in his body. I have the same view of Grimes, but the opposite of Trengove.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Don't get agression and courage mixed up. Courage is what will help take a mark running back with the flight. Agression is what makes you want to drive someone in to the ground when you tackle them. Agression isn't something you think about, it's just something that is in your nature. Courage is something that you do have an option with. Green was a far more courageous player than agressive. I never once thought he had an agressive bone in his body. I have the same view of Grimes, but the opposite of Trengove.

Unfortunately we live in a world where language is very limited and is absolutely subject to interpretation and therefore can be misunderstood.

Aggression and courage can be interchangeable. It's definitely not so black and white, but I do understand what you're trying to say.

I'm with you on Green, especially toward the latter part of his career he seemed to worry less about being 'hit'. That comes with age, experience, building your body etc. Whether you want to use the word courageous or not is up to the individual. Yes he showed courage at times.

Jack Watts WILL improve in this area. It's not a question of whether he will or won't. It's more about the speed in which he changes and whether or not he can add some stink and mongrel to his game. That's what interests me. I can see some level of arrogance within him. He definitely knows he is very skillful and has the ball on a string when in possession.

But if he can take that 'swagger' and 'confidence' and apply it to a contested situation. Really break it down and tell himself, 'I'm going to win this ball if it's the last thing I do'... then we'll see some serious improvement.

Edited November 6, 2013 by stevethemanjordan

[binman 42,738]

Don't get agression and courage mixed up.

Courage is what will help take a mark running back with the flight. Agression is what makes you want to drive someone in to the ground when you tackle them. Agression isn't something you think about, it's just something that is in your nature. Courage is something that you do have an option with.

Green was a far more courageous player than agressive. I never once thought he had an agressive bone in his body. I have the same view of Grimes, but the opposite of Trengove.

. My bad. I meant attack on the ball/courage not aggression. That said I wouldn't mind watts showing some agro Edited November 6, 2013 by binman

[manny100 1,505]

Watts maybe that precision outside receiver and distributor who hopefully can win his own ball when he needs to.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Unfortunately Jack Watts is a middle tier player in a poor football team.

He has been tried in most positions and has not been particularly successful in any of them.

Trying him as a midfielder is next on the list in an attempt to try and get a decent and consistent output from him.

If he wasn't drafted where he was we wouldn't be discussing him.

Standby for outrage.

[binman 42,738]

Unfortunately Jack Watts is a middle tier player in a poor football team.

He has been tried in most positions and has not been particularly successful in any of them.

Trying him as a midfielder is next on the list in an attempt to try and get a decent and consistent output from him.

If he wasn't drafted where he was we wouldn't be discussing him.

Standby for outrage.

I generally hate this phrase but I can't think of another that is more apt- whatever

[Swampfox 190]

I think Roos has made it clear that he intends to bring in midfielders who are bigger such as the Dockers

He mentioned Watts as an example of someone who is already at the club that he thinks has the attributes to fill that role

Its why i think Roos will be looking at more big bodied and /or taller Midfielders at pick 9 , 40 and maybe even at 57

One of these guys will be pick 9

Freeman (182cm 85kg)

Bontempelli (192cm 83kg)

Acres (189cm 84kg)

Kolodjashnij (190cm, 91kg)

Scharenberg (190cm 87kg)

Salem (183cm 81kg)

Sheed (184cm 83kg)

Dunstan (185cm 83kg)

Rather than

Crouch (180cm 78kg)

Aish (184cm 75kg)

Hartung (177cm 75kg)

Kelly (183cm 75kg)

Lennon (188cm 77kg)

Taylor (173cm 73kg)

Billings (184cm 78kg)

Personally i like Billings but be happy with any from that first group especially Freeman

Funny thing is that 3 - 4 of that second group are in the top 7 of most phantom drafts so giving away pick 2 for pick 9 may have been a stroke of genius

Who we have recruited so far

Viv Michie (185cm 85kg)

Dom Tyson (186cm 81kg)

Bernie Vince (186cm 87kg)

Daniel Cross (187cm 87kg)

I see a trend here

Who we already have as Pure Mids

Nathan Jones (180cm 85kg)

Jimmy Toumpass (183cm 79kg)

Jack Viney (178cm 80kg)

Jack Trengove (185cm 85kg)

Jordie McKenzie (186cm 82kg)

Comparison with the size of Jack Watts

Jack Watts (196cm 91kg)

According to Roos the Dockers have some big midfielders and by the looks of it i think he is right

Dockers

Fyfe (190cm 88kg)

Crowley (188cm 89kg)

Mundy (192cm 91kg)

Barlow (189cm 91kg)

[Dees2014 2,377]

That's impressive. Actually i can see him playing a point guard role under Roos. Outside receiver who distributes the ball to team mates and sets up scoring plays.

I hadn't realized he was THAT elite at basketball - Australian Point Guard at Under 18 level is impressive. A big point guard I must say, but says a lot about his skill, mobility and elusiveness.

I hope Roos does use him in this sort of role in the mid field ie being the distributor between the insiders in Trengove, Viney, Vince, Cross, Tyson, Jones, and the outside runners: Bleese (hopefully), Toumpas, Grimes, Michie, and hopefully Freeman. His skills by hand and foot are probably the best in the team, and playing the mid field General's role that a point guard plays could be extremely effective. Maybe put him in the centre rather than on the wing. Either way, I'm sure PR has it covered.

In Roos I trust!

[dee-tox 4,835]

Jack might make a good winger. Has the attributes. Can never be a stoppage mid as he is too apprehensive about physical contact. Kind of wish Jack's junior coaches had drummed into him that you are less likely to get hurt if you go for it first.

[rjay 24,896]

Disagree. Was told about (I think) the Melbourne Storm tackling coach a couple of years ago stood in front of an AFL team and said "I can teach any of you how to make a tackle, what I can't teach is making you want to tackle".

But I do agree with the next bit. If (let's face it, it probably isn't "if") Watts' issues is agression toward player/ball/contest, then instead of expecting him to play as a clearance player, let's play to his strengths which is his disposal.

I think you are reading what he said the wrong way. He's not talking about aggression, courage or anything but getting off your a.... and making the effort to lay the tackle. He's talking work rate.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I think you are reading what he said the wrong way. He's not talking about aggression, courage or anything but getting off your a.... and making the effort to lay the tackle. He's talking work rate.

How you come up with work rate in regards to that comment has me buggered.

I think the message from the tackling coach is pretty clear. Perhaps you needed to hear it directly from a coach to get the real message.

[rjay 24,896]

How you come up with work rate in regards to that comment has me buggered.

I think the message from the tackling coach is pretty clear. Perhaps you needed to hear it directly from a coach to get the real message.

Well you have a preconceived idea that's why you don't understand. You can teach all the technique you want but if a player is not committed to tackling it means nothing. Tackling is purely technique and commitment, aggression doesn't really come into it and in fact these days is more likely to get you weeks on the sidelines.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Well you have a preconceived idea that's why you don't understand. You can teach all the technique you want but if a player is not committed to tackling it means nothing. Tackling is purely technique and commitment, aggression doesn't really come into it and in fact these days is more likely to get you weeks on the sidelines.

Rjay, no disrespect mate, but I don't think you were at the training session that I was at, therefore, you wouldn't have heard the context that the coach put it in.

But, my preconceived ideas have nothing to do with me questioning your comments about work rate. I'll make it easier for you, if a player with the ball runs directly at Watts, what goes through Jack's mind? At the moment, it's "I have to tackle this guy", rather than "I want to tackle this guy". See the difference? It's hard for someone to teach someone to "want" to tackle, especially when that isn't their mindset.

FWIW, at the end of said training session, you could still sit back and work out which blokes had to tackle the tackle bag and get the ball out because that was the drill. You could also cleary see which players wanted to tackle the bag and get the ball out, which wass also the drill, just a different mindset.

[rjay 24,896]

Rjay, no disrespect mate, but I don't think you were at the training session that I was at, therefore, you wouldn't have heard the context that the coach put it in.

But, my preconceived ideas have nothing to do with me questioning your comments about work rate. I'll make it easier for you, if a player with the ball runs directly at Watts, what goes through Jack's mind? At the moment, it's "I have to tackle this guy", rather than "I want to tackle this guy". See the difference? It's hard for someone to teach someone to "want" to tackle, especially when that isn't their mindset.

FWIW, at the end of said training session, you could still sit back and work out which blokes had to tackle the tackle bag and get the ball out because that was the drill. You could also cleary see which players wanted to tackle the bag and get the ball out, which wass also the drill, just a different mindset.

For one I don't think you know what's going through Jack's mind and want or have to tackle makes no difference so long as they tackle and do it correctly. The difference I'm talking about and the where I am talking about work rate is in not letting the guy out of your area without chasing and tackling, if he is running at you, you have no choice.

by the way, I'm pretty sure I was at the same training session you are talking about.

[The Chazz 4,077]

For one I don't think you know what's going through Jack's mind and want or have to tackle makes no difference so long as they tackle and do it correctly. The difference I'm talking about and the where I am talking about work rate is in not letting the guy out of your area without chasing and tackling, if he is running at you, you have no choice.

by the way, I'm pretty sure I was at the same training session you are talking about.

I'd like to think I've seen enough footy, played enough footy, and run enough coaching sessions to be able to read what's going through the mind of players. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I'm confident in my observations.

Where in Queensland do you live?

[jazza 1,323]

wow jack watts

ive been waiting for so long to to see a thread about this bloke,

it will be interesting to see whether this thread kicks off with any more comments about JW

always wondered why nobody started a thread about him earlier

[dazzledavey36 54,430]

I see no problems in this Jack Watts Thread?

in fact I see only positives at the prospect of him playing as a tall midfielder and finally staying in the one postilion

If we have to start a thread on Watts playing in the midfield well then I don't see the problem?.

[Nasher 33,613]

28 posts gone.

Stu, we get that you find these discussions tedious. I find discussing the same things over and over again tedious too, but the fact is that the merits or otherwise of Watts is a popular and contentious topic. I also get that you might have thought there was something new in here - now you know there isn't, so there's no need for you to continue to read the thread, right?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Jeebus. How do I put the pest on ignore?

Thanks in advance.