On 06/10/2013 at 23:04, Demon3 said:

Sat what you like about Cam, but he knows his Football, and knows his players. was a great recruiter in his early days. I might be one out, but i dont have the hatede fof him like so many others and the disrespect shown for him is a bit boring to be honest.

And no, i am not CS.

And I think the highlighted part is the crux of the problem.

Cameron was the CEO, not the head of the football department or head of recruiting. His job was to oversee the business side of things and sign off on the jobs of those in the football department based on information given to him by the football manager (though someone else might be able to give a more definitive answer than I). All I know is, his hand should not have been pulling the lever come draft day.

In addition to this, football has come a long way when Cameron was a 'cadet recruiter' in the old days. He could get that job based on his connections and his upbringing in football. These days you need blokes with specialized knowledge running the show. The qualification of 'being around footy clubs for years' just won't cut it anymore.

Schwab is no evil genius. Let's get that clear. However, his stint from 2008-2013 has done incalculable damage to the club. I view him as a Graham Richmond for the new century without the premierships. He tried to take on the broad role of 'powerbroker' but like GR, he took the club down with him.

  On 06/10/2013 at 23:18, Colin B. Flaubert said:

And I think the highlighted part is the crux of the problem.

Cameron was the CEO, not the head of the football department or head of recruiting. His job was oversee the business side of things and sign off on the jobs of those in the football department based on information given to him by the football manager (though someone else might be able to give a more definitive answer than I). All I know is, his hand should not have been pulling the lever come draft day.

In addition to this, football has come a long way when Cameron was a 'cadet recruiter' in the old days. He could get that job based on his connections and his upbringing in football. These days you need blokes with specialized knowledge running the show. The qualification of 'being around footy clubs for years' just won't cut it anymore.

Schwab is no evil genius. Let's get that clear. However, his stint from 2008-2013 has done incalculable damage to the club. I view him as a Graham Richmond for the new century without the premierships. He tried to take on the broad role of 'powerbroker' but like GR, he took the club down with him.

Look i agree with what you have written, my point was that he is generally a good footy person, like you say, ultimately not a good CEO, continually bagging him and get nasty and peronal with him is just not my go. ive moved on, reckon others should as well.

  On 06/10/2013 at 23:39, Demon3 said:

Look i agree with what you have written, my point was that he is generally a good footy person, like you say, ultimately not a good CEO, continually bagging him and get nasty and peronal with him is just not my go. ive moved on, reckon others should as well.

Some of the venom towards him and Neeld at times has been a bit over the top. Neither of them were sitting in their office thinking, 'MWAHAHAHAHA! What way can I further wreck the MFC today?' Some people took their failures here way too personally.

However, them being 'good blokes' (and this includes Cuddles) should not give them a pass. I am still staggered that Cameron didn't see the writing on the wall after the players and Bailey met with Don.At that stage, It seems to me that he was more of a fan than an administrator. Look, it's great to have passion but at the end of the day he needed to look at the CEO position as a job. One look at what was going on would have told me that his position was untenable. One half of the club was at war with the other and differences of opinion on both sides were irreconcilable. At that point, it would have been best to walk away. As it stands now, Dean Bailey is going to have the last laugh as he can still get jobs with AFL clubs and CC and CS will never work at the AFL level again.

It's something I remember Achwab himself saying in one of his Whiteboard Wednesday videos:

All the good intentions and dedication to the cause mean nothing if you don't have the capability.

I think Schwab meant well, but I just think he's a crappy footy CEO.

There were aspects of the job he was good at, but I think he had his priorities arseabout, and there was an integral fatal flaw in what drove his decisions as a CEO.

Cameron Schwab writing about club management is like Terry Wallace writing about list management.

  On 06/10/2013 at 23:55, Tony Tea said:

Cameron Schwab writing about club management is like Terry Wallace writing about list management.

Hahaha... well said.

When I hear Wallace on radio I always find myself cringing. I couldn't help but laugh when I heard him talking about the MFC trading pick 2 as he stated "pick 2 will guarantee you a star" - my first thought was Richmond selecting Tambling at pick 4.

Wallace still has no clue, and I'm sure Schwab will be the same.

  On 06/10/2013 at 21:04, Clint Bizkit said:

Schwab was on SEN this morning.

"Mario from Doncaster", a regular caller who is usually a bit of a [censored] held on the line for about 10 minutes just to pay out on Schwab and Prendergast on how poor their recruiting was during his time. Mario then went on to ask if Lucas Cook would be drafted again, it was actually quite funny and quite satisfying to hear.

are you high?

in what way is CS responsible for our poor recruiting? That was not his job. That's without even getting in to the discussion about whether our player development was more to blame for those failed picks than the recruitment itself.

and in what way is it 'funny and satisfying' to hear the club getting slammed on the radio yet again?

CS bashing is way over the top. You try being at the helm of an organisation that is underfunded, undersupported and full of incompetent staff and players. It is very easy to blame all these bad years on CS but none of have the slightest clue as to what extent it was actually his fault. A certain Irishman was also heavily involved in this period of time but you don't get a bunch of hate chucked on him do you

  On 07/10/2013 at 01:32, Curry & Beer said:

are you high?

in what way is CS responsible for our poor recruiting? That was not his job. That's without even getting in to the discussion about whether our player development was more to blame for those failed picks than the recruitment itself.

and in what way is it 'funny and satisfying' to hear the club getting slammed on the radio yet again?

CS bashing is way over the top. You try being at the helm of an organisation that is underfunded, undersupported and full of incompetent staff and players. It is very easy to blame all these bad years on CS but none of have the slightest clue as to what extent it was actually his fault. A certain Irishman was also heavily involved in this period of time but you don't get a bunch of hate chucked on him do you

Spot on. Recruiting wasn't his job. And that was the biggest problem of all. He was a CEO who was actively pushing for us to draft youth at the expense of older players and who had most of the football department directly reporting to him.

I will say this again, C&B. By the end of the year, you were as filthy as the rest of us as to what had happened to the club. Yet everything the club has done has been faultless and no one is to blame.

I won't debate you point for point on this but Peter Jackson was pretty damn clear about what game CS was playing in regards to running the football side of things.

  On 07/10/2013 at 01:32, Curry & Beer said:

in what way is CS responsible for our poor recruiting? That was not his job.

Exactly!

  On 07/10/2013 at 01:32, Curry & Beer said:

are you high?

in what way is CS responsible for our poor recruiting? That was not his job. That's without even getting in to the discussion about whether our player development was more to blame for those failed picks than the recruitment itself.

and in what way is it 'funny and satisfying' to hear the club getting slammed on the radio yet again?

CS bashing is way over the top. You try being at the helm of an organisation that is underfunded, undersupported and full of incompetent staff and players. It is very easy to blame all these bad years on CS but none of have the slightest clue as to what extent it was actually his fault. A certain Irishman was also heavily involved in this period of time but you don't get a bunch of hate chucked on him do you

CS deserves a pay out aside from his hundreds of thousands he got after he was stood down "as a wonderful servant of the MFC".

A public slashing of the club yet again is never good, but I can sure as he*l say PJ is doing a blo*dy good job of this underfunded, under-supported organisation you speak of, far better than CS ever did anyway.

As for it being full of incompetent staff it was his responsibility to extend or terminate their contracts, it was his responsibility to set forth the structures to turn those incompetent players into competent winning players.

Under his watch, under the staff he was involved in employing the club tanked to receive high draft picks that went into an organisation that lacked the appropriate mature players and structures to nurture their development in order to obtain their full potential. CS publicly bi**hed about our major sponsors Hertz - the very people funding us. He also had his head so far burried into the past, he forgot to focus on the future, he forgot to focus on what was truly important and that was to set up the right structures to develop a winning culture.

Was he solely responsible for the last 7 years... NO. Although he did play a vital role in its near demise since his appointment in 2008.

So I too would laugh if I heard him being publicly "payed out".

  On 07/10/2013 at 02:07, ignition. said:

CS deserves a pay out aside from his hundreds of thousands he got after he was stood down "as a wonderful servant of the MFC".

A public slashing of the club yet again is never good, but I can sure as he*l say PJ is doing a blo*dy good job of this underfunded, under-supported organisation you speak of, far better than CS ever did anyway.

As for it being full of incompetent staff it was his responsibility to extend or terminate their contracts, it was his responsibility to set forth the structures to turn those incompetent players into competent winning players.

Under his watch, under the staff he was involved in employing the club tanked to receive high draft picks that went into an organisation that lacked the appropriate mature players and structures to nurture their development in order to obtain their full potential. CS publicly bi**hed about our major sponsors Hertz - the very people funding us. He also had his head so far burried into the past, he forgot to focus on the future, he forgot to focus on what was truly important and that was to set up the right structures to develop a winning culture.

Was he solely responsible for the last 7 years... NO. Although he did play a vital role in its near demise since his appointment in 2008.

So I too would laugh if I heard him being publicly "payed out".

Recruiting may not have been Schwab's job, but he did hire a pisspoor recruiter to do it.

Anyway, I agree that there's no point labouring on about it.

We're in a better place now.

I often wonder what would have happened if the Board had held it's nerve that famous weekend of 186.

But as numerous people it is gone now.

Onward and upward.

( Gone but never forgotten by me )

Did he pay back the home loan he got from the Club? How the hell we ever got into a loan with an employee I don't know. Surely the alarm bells were ringing when he couldn't get a loan from a financial institution. The MFC is not a bank.

  On 07/10/2013 at 01:43, Colin B. Flaubert said:

draft youth at the expense of older players

are you telling me Bailey, Neeld and Prendergast took orders from CS on whom to recruit?

explain to me who, at the time, was OPPOSED to doing that anyway?

explain to me how that has proven to be a mistake? Don't tell me we would be the slightest bit better off if we had kept McDonald, Bruce and Miller for an extra year

so you are blaming him for something that does not deserve blame, and his involvement in this supposed error is dubious at best

extremely thin argument

  On 07/10/2013 at 02:07, ignition. said:

PJ is doing a blo*dy good job of this underfunded, under-supported organisation you speak of, far better than CS ever did anyway.

well that's entirely premature. We have Roos, which is massive, but it remains to be seen just how fruitful that will be. In any case, the AFL clearly played a big part in making that happen, do you not think CS would have preferred Roos over Bailey and Neeld, of course, but it wasn't on the cards for him was it?

  On 07/10/2013 at 03:39, Curry & Beer said:

are you telling me Bailey, Neeld and Prendergast took orders from CS on whom to recruit?

explain to me who, at the time, was OPPOSED to doing that anyway?

explain to me how that has proven to be a mistake? Don't tell me we would be the slightest bit better off if we had kept McDonald, Bruce and Miller for an extra year

so you are blaming him for something that does not deserve blame, and his involvement in this supposed error is dubious at best

extremely thin argument

I would use the word "convenient" - everything that has gone wrong over the past 3 years was CS and MN's fault according to many.

The youth policy was something that CS pushed ? What him and him alone ? Spare me.....

It may be that CS was too opinionated when it came to matters football ( PJ let all and sundry know even before we had a coach that we will recruit midfielders - not that that was rocket science but again - a CEO commenting on football matters).

Ultimately Cameron was not successful but laying all the ills of the world at his feet is way too convenient.

  On 07/10/2013 at 03:21, Moonshadow said:

Did he pay back the home loan he got from the Club? How the hell we ever got into a loan with an employee I don't know. Surely the alarm bells were ringing when he couldn't get a loan from a financial institution. The MFC is not a bank.

It wasn't reported anywhere that he couldnt get a loan from a bank - you know this how ?

  On 07/10/2013 at 02:31, Machiavelli said:

Recruiting may not have been Schwab's job, but he did hire a pisspoor recruiter to do it.

There is the distinction - Garry Lyon didnt coach us badly - but he did put the rubber stamp on two coaches who turned out that way....

  On 07/10/2013 at 03:39, Curry & Beer said:

are you telling me Bailey, Neeld and Prendergast took orders from CS on whom to recruit?

explain to me who, at the time, was OPPOSED to doing that anyway?

explain to me how that has proven to be a mistake? Don't tell me we would be the slightest bit better off if we had kept McDonald, Bruce and Miller for an extra year

so you are blaming him for something that does not deserve blame, and his involvement in this supposed error is dubious at best

extremely thin argument

1) Brock McLean was pretty clear when interviewed during 'On The Couch' that Dean Bailey was under a lot of pressure to reach a certain outcome. We hear others, whose reliability varies, say that Cuddles and CS were threatening people with the sack if said outcome wasn't reached. Now, I seriously doubt that outcome was 'go out and recruit experienced match hardened players'.

2) The man has been acknowledged as having a big hand in football matters. Caro was acknowledging it before she went on a vendetta against him (she was even praising it as a positive at the time).

3) This part has been overlooked by you on many an occasion. 4 FD people had to report to CS up until he was fired. If the bloke had no say in the football department whatsoever why did he need to micromanage it?

4) PJ has gone on record on the same 'On The Couch' interview as saying that part of our problem is that 2-4 years ago, we purged our locker room of leaders. Among those purged were Frosty and Junior. I can get you links to both interviews if you like.

I agree to an extent that Schwab is gone and it's not an issue going forward. What pizzes me off is people coming on here and spinning this alternative history that is demonstrably false. Two issues get on my goat on this board: people saying that Neale Daniher 'destroyed' the club and that Cameron Schwab was some kind of misunderstood genius and that everything he did was right. I will give you points for originality C&B. This is the first time I have seen someone intimate that he didn't have his nose in the football department or in the long term recruiting strategy of the club. Kudos to you.

  On 07/10/2013 at 03:21, Moonshadow said:

Did he pay back the home loan he got from the Club? How the hell we ever got into a loan with an employee I don't know. Surely the alarm bells were ringing when he couldn't get a loan from a financial institution. The MFC is not a bank.

nor would it seem has it been a football club

  On 07/10/2013 at 04:03, Colin B. Flaubert said:

1) Brock McLean was pretty clear when interviewed during 'On The Couch' that Dean Bailey was under a lot of pressure to reach a certain outcome. We hear others, whose reliability varies, say that Cuddles and CS were threatening people with the sack if said outcome wasn't reached. Now, I seriously doubt that outcome was 'go out and recruit experienced match hardened players'.

2) The man has been acknowledged as having a big hand in football matters. Caro was acknowledging it before she went on a vendetta against him (she was even praising it as a positive at the time).

3) This part has been overlooked by you on many an occasion. 4 FD people had to report to CS up until he was fired. If the bloke had no say in the football department whatsoever why did he need to micromanage it?

4) PJ has gone on record on the same 'On The Couch' interview as saying that part of our problem is that 2-4 years ago, we purged our locker room of leaders. Among those purged were Frosty and Junior. I can get you links to both interviews if you like.

I agree to an extent that Schwab is gone and it's not an issue going forward. What pizzes me off is people coming on here and spinning this alternative history that is demonstrably false. Two issues get on my goat on this board: people saying that Neale Daniher 'destroyed' the club and that Cameron Schwab was some kind of misunderstood genius and that everything he did was right. I will give you points for originality C&B. This is the first time I have seen someone intimate that he didn't have his nose in the football department or in the long term recruiting strategy of the club. Kudos to you.

I reckon you have it covered there CBF.

The world of revisionists.

Some suggest the Holocaust did not happen!

OD - As CEO CS was responsible for lots of stuff and rightfully got his whack.

I just am bemused when he gets blamed for everything - there was so much rotten at the club and as one of the most powerful he deserves the most but organisation was inept to the core and no one is exempt and unfortunately that includes Jimmy ( although he had rather larger battles going on).

Does anyone remember when CS came on here and told us he was glad none of us are in charge of the club?

Hypocrite of the highest order.

  On 07/10/2013 at 04:51, dazzledavey36 said:

Does anyone remember when CS came on here and told us he was glad none of use are in charge of the club?

Hypocrite of the highest order.

you never know when statements like that are going to bite you on the bum.....