Anyone who has any idea about evolution would know that the egg came first. End of story.

Some of the celebrating and ridiculous statements (e.g. 'disease') on here are disgraceful.

IMO it was the right thing to do - a midfield coach at some point has to take responsibility for a disastrous midfield. So I agree with the decision. But I don't rejoice at it - some people ought to consider pulling their heads in.

Worst Assistant Coach EVER!!! Never been successful (except in 2000 maybe)

I actually like these changes. I think Davis is a little hard done by given that his only chance in the red and blue was playing out of position so he never really got a chance to show what he could do, but overall we've freed up some pretty good room on the list already and managed to clear out some dead wood in the coaching as well.

2012-3 was the worst midfield work I've ever seen.

Whether or not he had the cattle, no plan was able to ever stop opposition teams making us look like complete amateurs through the guts on the rebound. I am looking forward to a midfield coach that can teach proper defensive structures because it doesn't come down to cattle to get in the right place - or be told to.

2012-3 was the worst midfield work I've ever seen.

Whether or not he had the cattle, no plan was able to ever stop opposition teams making us look like complete amateurs through the guts on the rebound. I am looking forward to a midfield coach that can teach proper defensive structures because it doesn't come down to cattle to get in the right place - or be told to.

What he said.

2012-3 was the worst midfield work I've ever seen.

Whether or not he had the cattle, no plan was able to ever stop opposition teams making us look like complete amateurs through the guts on the rebound. I am looking forward to a midfield coach that can teach proper defensive structures because it doesn't come down to cattle to get in the right place - or be told to.

What does the head coach do?

Bailey had us playing as frontrunners, Neeld as norunners.

Clearances and stoppage work is at the feet I the midfield coach but that is cattle.

Midfield run and positioning is the head coach because today - everyone is a defender when you don't have the footy.

Illustrating this point is Craig got us to average 20 UPs more than we did under Neeld and out opposition 20 UPs less.

Craig made some changes, gae some confidence and it made an 80 UP differential into a 40 UP differential.

And Royal was there for both.

Criticizing assistant coaches I shake my head at - how would you know? How would you know?

What does the head coach do?

Criticizing assistant coaches I shake my head at - how would you know? How would you know?

Usually you'd be right, but it doesn't matter how many times you ask the question, we know because we have watched this disorganised unit on a regular basis.

Usually you'd be right, but it doesn't matter how many times you ask the question, we know because we have watched this disorganised unit on a regular basis.

You don't know and at best you are guessing.

There are issues with this unit but the critics are punting on the extent of the issues.

And those that retort "it's obvious" have the least clue of all.

I agree with that assessment and I think it's fair to say that he was a better footballer than a midfield coach.

In his early days as an assistant coach, he was often in the running for a senior coach's gig but he never quite made it.

His capacity to show that he was a capable assistant coach would not have been helped by the fact that had not much cattle to work with and he was an assistant to Bailey and Neeld.

We'll forever be asking ourselves whether it was the chicken or the egg but I reckon we got scrambled in the end.

Yes WJ, but we chose to poach him, even though our midfield has been foul. He only just scratched the surface IMO. I expect a roasting for those comments.

You don't know and at best you are guessing.

There are issues with this unit but the critics are punting on the extent of the issues.

And those that retort "it's obvious" have the least clue of all.

There's no point throwing a wobbly about this. I expect improvement under a new midfield coach AND with new midfield personnel.

There's no point throwing a wobbly about this. I expect improvement under a new midfield coach AND with new midfield personnel.

I've always expected posters on this board to actually have a knowledge of footy and can put forward well balanced arguments, without resorting to demeaning comments about other posters, players or coaches, I guess none of us can get what we want can we

What does the head coach do?

Bailey had us playing as frontrunners, Neeld as norunners.

Clearances and stoppage work is at the feet I the midfield coach but that is cattle.

Midfield run and positioning is the head coach because today - everyone is a defender when you don't have the footy.

Illustrating this point is Craig got us to average 20 UPs more than we did under Neeld and out opposition 20 UPs less.

Craig made some changes, gae some confidence and it made an 80 UP differential into a 40 UP differential.

And Royal was there for both.

Criticizing assistant coaches I shake my head at - how would you know? How would you know?

Thanks for illustrating my point so verbosely. Whether we were frontrunners or norunners, there was no defensive pressure applied on the rebound. It is a salient point because whatever the game plan def. pressure is still required when they rebound, particularly given our opposition rebound all the time because our 'skills' produce non-stop turnovers.

So whether (BR(x%) + Head Coach(y%)) failed to fix skills, or fix defensive zones, (BR(x%) + Head Coach(y%) still bloody failed.*

*Fixed for Rhino's inevitable sook.

Edited September 12, 201311 yr by Geddy Lee

Thanks for illustrating my point so verbosely. Whether we were frontrunners or norunners, there was no defensive pressure applied on the rebound. It is a salient point because whatever the game plan def. pressure is still required when they rebound, particularly given our opposition rebound all the time because our 'skills' produce non-stop turnovers.

So whether (BR(x%) + Head Coach(y%)) failed to fix skills, or fix defensive zones, (BR(x%) + Head Coach(y%) still bloody failed.*

*Fixed for Rhino's inevitable sook.

Fixed your equation for you

( (BR(x%) + Head Coach(y%)) failed to fix skills, or fix defensive zones, (BR(x%) + Head Coach(y%)) x 95% crap midfielders

Thanks for illustrating my point so verbosely. Whether we were frontrunners or norunners, there was no defensive pressure applied on the rebound. It is a salient point because whatever the game plan def. pressure is still required when they rebound, particularly given our opposition rebound all the time because our 'skills' produce non-stop turnovers.

So whether (BR(x%) + Head Coach(y%)) failed to fix skills, or fix defensive zones, (BR(x%) + Head Coach(y%) still bloody failed.*

*Fixed for Rhino's inevitable sook.

The variable in the room is the head coach - he sets direction. The other variable being talent - it upsets direction.

Blaming assistant coaches is so pointless from what we can see.

And I may be verbose, but I was not illustrating your point.

Thanks for illustrating my point so verbosely. Whether we were frontrunners or norunners, there was no defensive pressure applied on the rebound. It is a salient point because whatever the game plan def. pressure is still required when they rebound, particularly given our opposition rebound all the time because our 'skills' produce non-stop turnovers.

You have hit the nail on the head. Have a look at the Stats sheets from any game and you will see that most scores come from turnovers. No game plan, no defensive setup no amount of coaching on positioning or setups is going to help if you don't have the basic skills NOT to turn the ball over. So I am happy to tear a new one to our skills coach or even our recruiting staff that drafted players that cant dispose of a football. But a strategic genius is not going to help us if we constantly give the ball back to the opponents.

There's no point throwing a wobbly about this. I expect improvement under a new midfield coach AND with new midfield personnel.

......and a new head coach, game plan with proper and competent off field support.

We really could not get much worse

.

You have hit the nail on the head. Have a look at the Stats sheets from any game and you will see that most scores come from turnovers. No game plan, no defensive setup no amount of coaching on positioning or setups is going to help if you don't have the basic skills NOT to turn the ball over. So I am happy to tear a new one to our skills coach or even our recruiting staff that drafted players that cant dispose of a football. But a strategic genius is not going to help us if we constantly give the ball back to the opponents.

As you point out there are many factors at play. I am not sure why the village witch hunt can define and want to hang the midfield coach when they have not got a clue the levels and extent of individual culpability without guessing.

I must say I find it bizarre that people have thanked Royal for his time and effort. I have allowed myself to sleep on this and still can't come close to thinking something similar.

Whether the cattle was no good or what not he was in a well paid position and did a shocking job of it. From seeing the purring Wellman backline go to a shamble over one season, and then taking over the midfield and have it labelled as the "worst ever seen" in no way shape or form can I thank him for his overpaid efforts. He was a massive part of the problem under Bailey and Neeld, sure he may be a nice bloke but he did an appalling job. Good riddance I say, I'm glad he's gone... hopefully to the pies.

I must say I find it bizarre that people have thanked Royal for his time and effort. I have allowed myself to sleep on this and still can't come close to thinking something similar.

Whether the cattle was no good or what not he was in a well paid position and did a shocking job of it. From seeing the purring Wellman backline go to a shamble over one season, and then taking over the midfield and have it labelled as the "worst ever seen" in no way shape or form can I thank him for his overpaid efforts. He was a massive part of the problem under Bailey and Neeld, sure he may be a nice bloke but he did an appalling job. Good riddance I say, I'm glad he's gone... hopefully to the pies.

His problem was that he was under Bailey and Neeld and that we have little midfield talent.

I know we are all looking for reasons that our midfield will not be third world next year, but the Assistant coach can only make a small difference.

Roos will bring confidence and, hopefully, a more adept game style.

His midfield assistant will only play a small part in stoppage work and ability to help the players adapt to Roos' new game plan.

The way we judge Assistant Coaches on here is embarrassing, laughable, and confused.

His problem was that he was under Bailey and Neeld and that we have little midfield talent.

I know we are all looking for reasons that our midfield will not be third world next year, but the Assistant coach can only make a small difference.

Roos will bring confidence and, hopefully, a more adept game style.

His midfield assistant will only play a small part in stoppage work and ability to help the players adapt to Roos' new game plan.

The way we judge Assistant Coaches on here is embarrassing, laughable, and confused.

I disagree, he was just as much part of the problem.

When he took over the backline it regressed, when he took over the midfield again it regressed. He had the same cattle to work with the exception of a young Scully and a disgruntled Moloney.

Lets look at his record of the last 10 years as an assistant coach:

2003: North Melbourne finish 10th.

2004 - 2009: Richmond predominantly bottom of the ladder.

2010 - St.Kilda (Golden years), couldn't hold the job after one year under Lyon.

2011 - 2013: Melbourne, turned the Wellman backline to garbage, and had his midfield labelled as the worst ever seen - Gerard Healey.

Whether it was bad is one thing but having the midfield labelled as the worst ever seen or to be a little nicer one of the worst ever seen MUST reflects in some way on the midfield coach along with the players and head coach. In no way shape or form should he be exonerated from that.

I don't think we're in a position to judge Royal as an individual, but he was part of an atrocious coaching group.

I recall there being a time when we didn't have enough in the square for a centre bounce.

Disorganisation of the highest order, but at the same time I'm not really sure who should wear the blame for that.

His problem was that he was under Bailey and Neeld and that we have little midfield talent.

I know we are all looking for reasons that our midfield will not be third world next year, but the Assistant coach can only make a small difference.

Roos will bring confidence and, hopefully, a more adept game style.

His midfield assistant will only play a small part in stoppage work and ability to help the players adapt to Roos' new game plan.

The way we judge Assistant Coaches on here is embarrassing, laughable, and confused.

Only play a small part in stoppage work? What about clearances, and working the ball inside 50? I haven't seen much of that the last two years.

I find it embarrassing, laughable, and confusing that people on here thank and applaud previous staff who have contributed to this appalling era.

To make it laughable should I thank him whilst sticking to the Demon supporter sterotype by swiftly clapping my hands together in a short manner and poshly saying "go deeeessss"?

I disagree, he was just as much part of the problem.

When he took over the backline it regressed, when he took over the midfield again it regressed. He had the same cattle to work with the exception of a young Scully and a disgruntled Moloney.

Lets look at his record of the last 10 years as an assistant coach:

2003: North Melbourne finish 10th.

2004 - 2009: Richmond predominantly bottom of the ladder.

2010 - St.Kilda (Golden years), couldn't hold the job after one year under Lyon.

2011 - 2013: Melbourne, turned the Wellman backline to garbage, and had his midfield labelled as the worst ever seen - Gerard Healey.

Whether it was bad is one thing but having the midfield labelled as the worst ever seen or to be a little nicer one of the worst ever seen MUST reflects in some way on the midfield coach along with the players and head coach. In no way shape or form should he be exonerated from that.

So following your line of thinking - with a percentage of 56% last year - Leigh Brown deserves to go but equally so does Rawlings ?

Please advise if you want Todd Viney gone - he is in charge of player development and strategy - you must surely rate him the worst of all in the football department - considering we have had no strategy since his arrival and players development has gone backwards ?

Edit - if we are to judge anyone in the club with the same insight displayed on here then after the last two years absolutely no one would survive.

Edited September 12, 201311 yr by nutbean

I find it embarrassing, laughable, and confusing that people on here thank and applaud previous staff who have contributed to this appalling era.

To make it laughable should I thank him whilst sticking to the Demon supporter sterotype by swiftly clapping my hands together in a short manner and poshly saying "go deeeessss"?

It's not as bad as those that ponce around that they can evaluate someone's performance when in truth they can't.

You have perfectly demonstrated the very point rpfc, myself and others are saying about judging assistant coaches.

Only play a small part in stoppage work? What about clearances, and working the ball inside 50? I haven't seen much of that the last two years.

I find it embarrassing, laughable, and confusing that people on here thank and applaud previous staff who have contributed to this appalling era.

To make it laughable should I thank him whilst sticking to the Demon supporter sterotype by swiftly clapping my hands together in a short manner and poshly saying "go deeeessss"?

Do you think I am one of those supporters? Or are you just advancing a stereotype that, if muttered by another, you would dismiss as readily as you have put it forward here?

I disagree that you can judge Assistants as wholly as you have done here - but they will be tarred nonetheless.

And people thank recently departed staff for their service because that is what good, solid organisations do - they don't shite on them on the way out. The club sent out a press release and a tweet thanking them and some supporters have concurred. The players thanked them at the B+F.

It isn't a laughable trait or sign of anyones weakness - it is just an honourable thing to do for people that will attempt to move forward in a career that has been tarred by this club over the last 2 years - most of it not in their control.