Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[beelzebub 23,313]

Ash, I know you're copping a lot but please don't take offence at my characterisation of Jobe's comments. His response came across to me as being cocky and smug because, by that time, AOD9604 had been clearly identified as a banned peptide on the WADA S0 list and, despite that, Dank was at the same time crowing that he had advice from deep "in the bowels of ASADA" that it could be injected into the Essendon players. Watson must have known at the time of the interview that the club was trying to exploit a loophole at best.

AOD9604 remains to this day on the S0 list when injected and, whether Jobe was being truthful or not, he made a big mistake with his comments in that interview. If he was a dummy like Brock McLean, you would expect that sort of reply but Jobe's the skipper of the club and normally a smart bloke. That wasn't his finest hour and I hope his words don't come back to haunt him.

Agree,apart from the very last sentence as I really couldnt care if he comes unstuck big time. Both he and his father have adopted a pseudo faustian approach to this. Thye want to dance with the devil but make like martyred angels. Im not buying it.

Not being vindictive, but that Medal Jobe wears has requirements to character. Jobe fails.

[What 18,810]

it defies belief that Hird is still employed at Essendon, let alone involved in sport at all

But I am glad he is still their coach, as this car crash comedy will continue for a while yet

viva la Hirdy

[DemonFrog 1,354]

it defies belief that Hird is still employed at Essendon, let alone involved in sport at all

But I am glad he is still their coach, as this car crash comedy will continue for a while yet

viva la Hirdy

I love your support as I need more time for my plans for the Essendon FC to be realised

[beelzebub 23,313]

Players won't respond to notices, says AFLPA

[beelzebub 23,313]

there is something so wrong about the AFL tribunal deciding their fate

why would the AFL give long bans when it will end up costing them revenue and tarnish the brand even further?

Nobody trusts the AFL

it should be an independent tribunal surely

I agree and have put this before, the participant sport should have NOTHING to do with the outcome once established. Should be down to ASADA to meet out the punishment. The AFL in signing on ought to be then prepared to stand back and allow what follows, to follow.

Its a total balls up really. The AFL is conflicted at best and has shown a complicity in the past. Joke

[GM11 776]

there is something so wrong about the AFL tribunal deciding their fate

why would the AFL give long bans when it will end up costing them revenue and tarnish the brand even further?

Nobody trusts the AFL

it should be an independent tribunal surely

Agree. Hopefully any tribunal will mete out a just decision or this will drag on into another season when ASADA/WADA appeal.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Players won't respond to notices, says AFLPA

They must have a few more things to hide.

2 year bans all around!

[PaulRB 6,336]

If the AFL is lenient to the players on the basis they were totally duped by the EFC, then surely another round of sanctions against the EFC would then be required?

Confidence in AFL acting with integrity on this issue is low.

[M_9 2,078]

They must have a few more things to hide.

2 year bans all around!

It's really just a move to expedite matters. The players' lawyers must believe that putting their case to the ADVRP is a waste of time as the ADVRP will almost certainly put the players' names on the RoF. That in turn leads to the issuing of infraction notices by the AFL.

Players are suspended immediately infraction notices are issued unless the AFL determines otherwise.

I don't have an issue with the AFL tribunal determining any sanctions. ASADA will have considerable input in to what those sanctions will be, if, in fact, there are any.

[beelzebub 23,313]

10.9 Commencement of Ineligibility Period

Except as provided below, the period of Ineligibility shall

start on the date of the hearing decision providing for

Ineligibility or, if the hearing is waived, on the date

Ineligibility is accepted or otherwise imposed. Any

period of Provisional Suspension (whether imposed or

voluntarily accepted) shall be credited against the total

period of Ineligibility imposed.

10.9.1 Delays Not Attributable to

the Athlete or other Person

Where there have been substantial delays in the

hearing process or other aspects of Doping

Control not attributable to the Athlete or other

Person, the body imposing the sanction may

start the period of Ineligibility at an earlier date

commencing as early as the date of Sample

collection or the date on which another antidoping

rule violation last occurred.

I'm also interested to see how others may interpret the above.

Would the bans be effective from the date of the Tribunals directive ?

Even though there have been delays would this not come under the proviso that it was because of the actions of the club and players ? If so then no backdating is warranted ?

If thats the case then even if they sneaked off with 6 months ( too little for mine ) then should it not start presumably from the tribunal...sometime in November. ?? This would make the middle of May as their earliest resumption ?? If a year...its goodnight Irene for 2015..........

[Cards13 9,117]

The other point of note from the article is the burden of proof is higher for the tribunal than required by ASADA if the players responded to the show cause notices. Here is hoping the AFL don't screw the pooch on this one.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

I find it interesting that our assumption is that the AFL tribunal will attempt to make a political best case scenario ruling based on PR and dollars over one based on evidence.

Does the AFL even care that they are seen this way?

No one even assumes this will be a fair tribunal. The assumption is that the AFL will manufacture an outcome that it is its own best interest.

I'm already angry and the "hearing" hasn't even happened yet.

[beelzebub 23,313]

I find it interesting that our assumption is that the AFL tribunal will attempt to make a political best case scenario ruling based on PR and dollars over one based on evidence.

Does the AFL even care that they are seen this way?

No one even assumes this will be a fair tribunal. The assumption is that the AFL will manufacture an outcome that it is its own best interest.

I'm already angry and the "hearing" hasn't even happened yet.

NO

[Pates 9,658]

Yep, I'm a member, have been for about 20 years.

Do I wish things have been handled differently? Yes

Do I think turning up to the AGM and demanding change will help? Maybe

But realistically, unless someone puts their hand up to replace the board, all the protests about the place won't help.

I'm amazed at how few "rumblings" have come from outside the inner sanctum of the club in relations to board challenges etc

Maybe the club is so [censored] at the moment, no one wants to jump into the crap storm that is being involved with the EFC.

Yes I want change. At board level and in relation to Hird.

When I get the chance to elect board members as my right as a member, I will vote accordingly.

But I have said all along, I don't believe Hird should be involved in the club.

I struggle at times to see why so many supporters still back him.

As for Paul Little, I'm undecided.

He has come in half way through, and he has gone about things completely differently to the way Evans was handling things.

From what I know about him, that's his style.

He has had to deal with an incredibly unique situation.

Obviously most think he has gone about it poorly, but I don't envy him and the circumstances he has found himself in.

I will buy a membership next year, no matter what happens.

I am of the believe I am an Essendon supporter, and the club is bigger than any person involved.

The club needs my membership more than it ever has.

That is one of the most intelligent opinions I've heard from an Essendon fan. And it's always the supporters who suffer the most (although in this case the players are struggling too), when Melbourne was going through the non-tanking saga it was akin to watching a family member struggle with a health issue. It was just on my mind 24/7. It's also good to hear that despite everything you will continue to support the club. I remembered some people questioned why I kept buying a membership with what was happening and I explained that a membership was a sign of support to the current regime it was a show of unending support for the club I love.

Do you feel that the only reason Hird is going to continue coaching is that the club has painted themselves into a corner or do you feel that the current regime genuinely supports him? If the bombers start the season with 9 losses, could the board use that as a quick fire measure to sack him?

For Essendon to move forward from this saga, at some point they need to remove all who involved in this and start fresh. Otherwise it'll never stop.

On a slightly unrelated point, is anyone else getting a little bit of sick pleasure from Caro being proven wrong in the end? It's nothing really against her in particular, I just like see footy reporters getting stories wrong and looking like fools. Barrett next would be great, problem is he deals so much in vagueness that he finds a way to slither out of it.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

On a slightly unrelated point, is anyone else getting a little bit of sick pleasure from Caro being proven wrong in the end? It's nothing really against her in particular, I just like see footy reporters getting stories wrong and looking like fools. Barrett next would be great, problem is he deals so much in vagueness that he finds a way to slither out of it.

I think someone said he admitted being wrong on Tyson, but then found another way to pot us.

[Whispering_Jack 29,756]

So after claiming for several months that they didn't receive sufficient information from ASADA to enable responses to the show cause notices, the players now won't respond. This is not particularly suggestive of the players co-operating with ASADA.

As to the issue of a discount for delay, the NRL sanctions were backdated to November 2013 which is when it's own investigation was completed. In the AFL case the investigation was completed in May, 2014 and the delays were caused in part, first by Essendon's failure to keep records of the drugs programme and then by Essendon's failed legal action. They should not expect the same discounts as the NRL players in these circumstances.

It's good that the matter will be heard and the players will have the opportunity to prove their innocence. This will give finality and closure in a much more transparent and open way than the process of dealing when the players clearly don't want to accept their guilt.

[Melbman2 226]

A quick hearing could allow a little bit of backdating, plus the remainder of the off season and bobs your uncle, six month bans and no games missed.

Come round one, they're all really sorry but let's put the past behind us, it's a brand new season and no point dwelling on the past.

There's been lessons learned, we're all a bit wiser now, new structures are in place and we can all get on with the business of football blah blah...............................................

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

Its all good news from my perspective. The players guilt or otherwise will be determined by a tribunal of the right people based on the evidence. If the players get of in this circumstance it will be becuase insufficient evidence exists to demonstrate to the comfortable satisfaction that they took or intended to take banned substances not because the evidence cannot be used. A not guilty verdict will clear their name unlike the Hird/Little approach.

I suspect that ASADA patience with the players and the club is wearing thin but I doubt not responding to the show cause notices will affect the final outcome or penalties.

If guilty the player are likely to get a deal from ASADA but I doubt it will be as generous as the NFL deal.

If Hird gets a show cause then no leniency will be shown. I suspect however he won't receive one and will walk away scott free, a million dollars richer and with a fancy business degree. The only punishment he has received to date is damage to his name and reputation.

[beelzebub 23,313]

So after claiming for several months that they didn't receive sufficient information from ASADA to enable responses to the show cause notices, the players now won't respond. This is not particularly suggestive of the players co-operating with ASADA.

As to the issue of a discount for delay, the NRL sanctions were backdated to November 2013 which is when it's own investigation was completed. In the AFL case the investigation was completed in May, 2014 and the delays were caused in part, first by Essendon's failure to keep records of the drugs programme and then by Essendon's failed legal action. They should not expect the same discounts as the NRL players in these circumstances.

It's good that the matter will be heard and the players will have the opportunity to prove their innocence. This will give finality and closure in a much more transparent and open way than the process of dealing when the players clearly don't want to accept their guilt.

Tribunal: Did you take Thymosin Beta 4 ?

Player : No

Tribunal : Did you sign a waiver to allow the injection of Thymosin ?

Player we...yes.....bu the "good " one !!

Tribunal : Are you aware the legal variant is actually called Thymomodulin and not Thymosin ?

Player : Ummm.... ...No

Tribunal : Can you or your club provide any proof of purchase of Thymomodulin ...the "good" one ?

Player:...ummm...ummm....ahhhhh....well NO

Tribunal: Are you aware we have evidence your club purchased Thymosin 4 ?

Player : Have you... ( gulp )

Tribunal: Can you prove to this tribunal that you were never injected with , nor intended to be injected with , Thymosin 4 ??

Player: No

Tribunal: Do you actually know what you were injected with ?

Player:....... ..........

next..

[DemonFrog 1,354]

It's really just a move to expedite matters. The players' lawyers must believe that putting their case to the ADVRP is a waste of time as the ADVRP will almost certainly put the players' names on the RoF. That in turn leads to the issuing of infraction notices by the AFL.

Players are suspended immediately infraction notices are issued unless the AFL determines otherwise.

I don't have an issue with the AFL tribunal determining any sanctions. ASADA will have considerable input in to what those sanctions will be, if, in fact, there are any.

True, I just want them all to get 2 years so that a strong message can be sent to all AFL Clubs.

Drugs is not acceptable in the AFL.

[Whispering_Jack 29,756]

Tribunal: Did you take Thymosin Beta 4 ?

Player : No

Tribunal : Did you sign a waiver to allow the injection of Thymosin ?

Player we...yes.....bu the "good " one !!

Tribunal : Are you aware the legal variant is actually called Thymomodulin and not Thymosin ?

Player : Ummm.... ...No

Tribunal : Can you or your club provide any proof of purchase of Thymomodulin ...the "good" one ?

Player:...ummm...ummm....ahhhhh....well NO

Tribunal: Are you aware we have evidence your club purchased Thymosin 4 ?

Player : Have you... ( gulp )

Tribunal: Can you prove to this tribunal that you were never injected with , nor intended to be injected with , Thymosin 4 ??

Player: No

Tribunal: Do you actually know what you were injected with ?

Player:....... ..........

next..

Even if it doesn't work out that way according to the Tribunal, there's the WADA hurdle to overcome.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Even if it doesn't work out that way according to the Tribunal, there's the WADA hurdle to overcome.

then again...just insert ASADA panel member where it says "Tribunal"

[monoccular 17,411]

I love your support as I need more time for my plans for the Essendon FC to be realised

Is it the contrast on my screen, or has he been on the melatonin (again)?

Its all good news from my perspective. The players guilt or otherwise will be determined by a tribunal of the right people based on the evidence. If the players get of in this circumstance it will be becuase insufficient evidence exists to demonstrate to the comfortable satisfaction that they took or intended to take banned substances not because the evidence cannot be used. A not guilty verdict will clear their name unlike the Hird/Little approach.

I suspect that ASADA patience with the players and the club is wearing thin but I doubt not responding to the show cause notices will affect the final outcome or penalties.

If guilty the player are likely to get a deal from ASADA but I doubt it will be as generous as the NFL deal.

If Hird gets a show cause then no leniency will be shown. I suspect however he won't receive one and will walk away scott free, a million dollars richer and with a fancy business degree. The only punishment he has received to date is damage to his name and reputation.

So, you have confidence in the AFL Tribunal: in their integrity, impartiality and consistency?

You must be one of few.

[Elusive Tunbridge 795]

I hope the AFL have the sense to understand they're way out of their depth this time.

[monoccular 17,411]

I hope the AFL have the sense to understand they're way out of their depth this time.

You may well hope, but do you really think that they will?