Interesting talking to an Essendon supporter yesterday spinning the story that ASADA have stuffed up etc. his point was that even a murder trial doesn't run this long. My point was that it's not a trial, it's an investigation and some murder investigations last many years.

Too many people, including Essendon supporting journo's have some fixation on the time the investigation is taking. I know it would be good to have everything wrapped up so we can get on with the new season but life doesn't work that way. Not everything can be packaged up neatly.

The process has been explained many times in this thread and the media. The end is coming and although Bomber fans want "closure" meaning they want it to go away by hook or by crook, some us just want to hear the truth.

All Holmes, Whateley and co want to do is obfuscate by attacking the process but they have little to say about what the players took and had stuck into their veins.

BTW Wilson did respond strongly to Holmes' comments while Masters was sniggering away in the background at Holmes' stupidity. He's also answered all of those points before on that programme - more than once.

Of course it's not the same - in fact Lees ingested no drugs at all. However, my point is that AFL players have the benefit of better education and provided with far more information. Those in charge deserve punishment and should IMO be banned from the sport for a long time, if not for life but the players don't deserve sympathy or a free pass.

Lees ingesting the drugs is irrelevant to the importation charge. And had he not been identified early in the importation phase then he could have sampled the produce.

And I thought it would have been clear that the Essendon players have not had the benefit of the education or information that is required at the AFL. Otherwise neither the Club nor players had been in this mess. And as you point out that is the reason why those in charge should be hung, drawn and quartered career wise for this systemic failure.

Look like you will get your wish. Hird now has to pay tax on a $1m plus per year for the next 3 years. He would be devastated.

Reminds me of the down and out bloke who finds a dropped pay packet in the gutter full of money (wages). Rather than being happy with rare providence he gets shitty when he reads the payslip and sees all the tax that's been deducted.

Hirds tax liability on the money was never in doubt. The club would have to deduct it before it paid him the net amount.

Lees ingesting the drugs is irrelevant to the importation charge. And had he not been identified early in the importation phase then he could have sampled the produce.

And I thought it would have been clear that the Essendon players have not had the benefit of the education or information that is required at the AFL. Otherwise neither the Club nor players had been in this mess. And as you point out that is the reason why those in charge should be hung, drawn and quartered career wise for this systemic failure.

^ ^ ^

Actually, players from every AFL club get drug education programmes on a regular basis under the aegis of the AFL and these things are constantly drummed into them. The argument Lees made was that as a VFL player he was never informed of the dangers of buying supplements on line. That's still no excuse for getting on the supplements but Lees deserves a bit more sympathy than the Essendon players who are highly paid and better informed.

Reminds me of the down and out bloke who finds a dropped pay packet in the gutter full of money (wages). Rather than being happy with rare providence he gets shitty when he reads the payslip and sees all the tax that's been deducted.

Hirds tax liability on the money was never in doubt. The club would have to deduct it before it paid him the net amount.

Not necessarily.

It could be paid to a company as a service rather than an income to an individual.

Then the payment of tax becomes more complex depending on distribution.

... and then there are family trusts etc... anyway, James has already been paid in advance for his labours this year so he can push off to France or Switzerland or wherever he's going for his higher education qualifications.

Meanwhile, I noticed that the other team he coached in 2013, the Prahran Under 10's still have him down as coach although the list doesn't appear to have been updated for a while.

Not necessarily.

It could be paid to a company as a service rather than an income to an individual.

Then the payment of tax becomes more complex depending on distribution.

Sorry not for the ATO. The interplay of a company does not hide the nexus of employment.

At the end of the day you and only you are responsible for what is injected into your body (unless you are on the operating table).

Sorry not for the ATO. The interplay of a company does not hide the nexus of employment.

Profound.

Lees ingesting the drugs is irrelevant to the importation charge. And had he not been identified early in the importation phase then he could have sampled the produce.

Funny thing about that, he would have got the same penalty if he used it and got caught.

Reminds me of the down and out bloke who finds a dropped pay packet in the gutter full of money (wages). Rather than being happy with rare providence he gets shitty when he reads the payslip and sees all the tax that's been deducted.

Hirds tax liability on the money was never in doubt. The club would have to deduct it before it paid him the net amount.

It was a joke.

^ ^ ^

Actually, players from every AFL club get drug education programmes on a regular basis under the aegis of the AFL and these things are constantly drummed into them. The argument Lees made was that as a VFL player he was never informed of the dangers of buying supplements on line. That's still no excuse for getting on the supplements but Lees deserves a bit more sympathy than the Essendon players who are highly paid and better informed.

In the atmosphere of coercion and mis (even incorrect) information from senior respected officials, it's clear the EFC players were clearly not better informed and the level of pay is neither here nor there

Profound.

Your word or did ask someone for it.

It was a joke.

my fault. Missed it. In some ways, the payment of the $1m to the golden boy is the joke!

Funny thing about that, he would have got the same penalty if he used it and got caught.

I would thought he would have got an extra six month for usage to go with the importation.

BTW Wilson did respond strongly to Holmes' comments while Masters was sniggering away in the background at Holmes' stupidity. He's also answered all of those points before on that programme - more than once.

Just watched Outsiders and Tracy Holmes was disappointing throughout especially for the football and the cricket. I thought both Wilson and Masters had the better of her. During the supplements saga, I thought she was poorly researched and tried to play the alternative angle to an issue and came up shallow. Outsiders is better than what she served up today.

In the atmosphere of coercion and mis (even incorrect) information from senior respected officials, it's clear the EFC players were clearly not better informed and the level of pay is neither here nor there

The proposition that professional footballers who are required to attend sessions called by the AFL to educate them on the ins and outs of drugs in sport are not better informed than a part timer who gets no education whatsoever is ludicrous.

BTW I agree with your summation of Tracey Holmes embarrassing performance on the programme today but it's correct name is "Offsiders" I believe .

It may or may not explain her conduct but I believe Holmes is an Essendon supporter.

The proposition that professional footballers who are required to attend sessions called by the AFL to educate them on the ins and outs of drugs in sport are not better informed than a part timer who gets no education whatsoever is ludicrous.

BTW I agree with your summation of Tracey Holmes embarrassing performance on the programme today but it's correct name is "Offsiders" I believe .

What Wade Lees did was dumb regardless of any specific education. It was stupid to think it was even sensible to access substances over the internet which he could not get through more legitimate channels (eg pharmacies) in Australia. And even more so to consume.

Maybe the AFL drug education should be for Hird, Reid and others. And there is a lesson for those young players who were assured by the people they respected and trusted that it was safe.

As Caro Wilson aptly stated this whole issue is about the failure of a club to protect the welfare of 40 young men. Not that Tracy Holmes could even figure that much out!

Those who understand Tax will also know the different way the ATo treats elite sports payments...just saying

It may or may not explain her conduct but I believe Holmes is an Essendon supporter.

I noticed her neat bob hairstyle had a touch of red and black in it.

Seriously her comments on the cricket were of similar quality to the EFC perspective.

... to access substances over the internet which he could not get through more legitimate channels (eg pharmacies) in Australia.

You don't know that that's the case. There are any number of sports and diet supplements not available outside their countries of manufacturer, usually the US. And as i'm sure you'd agree, the range of many supplements available in pharmacies is small to non-existant.

Sure, Lees was taking a chance doing what he did, but as he himself has said, and as others have tried to point out on this thread, he really didn't grasp the ramifications or the responsibilities of his actions. Not that that's a defence of course.

You don't know that that's the case. There are any number of sports and diet supplements not available outside their countries of manufacturer, usually the US. And as i'm sure you'd agree, the range of many supplements available in pharmacies is small to non-existant.

Sure, Lees was taking a chance doing what he did, but as he himself has said, and as others have tried to point out on this thread, he really didn't grasp the ramifications or the responsibilities of his actions. Not that that's a defence of course.

Whether he did go through legitimate channels or not the fact that he was prepared to seek out substances overseas from the internet without the guidance of a doctor or pharmacist was just dumb....sportsman or not.

Look the best spin on this is that he was naive but does not take away just how reckless he was.

For mine the best aspect of the Lees incident by way of comparison is as far as penalty.

Wade got spanked for a fairly straight forward single misdemeanor

Essendons was a whole program of transgression...surely that takes it to the next level

Whether he did go through legitimate channels or not the fact that he was prepared to seek out substances overseas from the internet without the guidance of a doctor or pharmacist was just dumb....sportsman or not.

Look the best spin on this is that he was naive but does not take away just how reckless he was.

To be clear, the point I was making about Lees was that despite the naivety of what he did, he didn't have the benefit of the same information as the Essendon players and, as a consequence, one can't have any sympathy for them.