Jump to content

Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>



Recommended Posts

Posted

The more I think about the playing of the sympathy card for the Essendon players, the more it riles me.

Let's take a different tack on the subject and reprise the Wade Lees case - VFL player Wade Lees cops 18-month ban for importing performance-enhancing drugs.

One of the arguments made for Lees was that, as a VFL player who received no education on how to deal with supplements and any other substances which might lead a sportsperson to be charged with anti doping violations, he deserved some consideration.

His plea fell on deaf ears.

Now consider Lees' AFL counterparts at Essendon who, like all AFL players receive regular advice and education on drug use.

Confronted with waiver forms that detail a number of supplements that don't sound like your regular vitamins to me, their education should have alerted them to the potential peril they were facing.

Did not one of them take the trouble to check the nature of the substances they were taking?

That some of those things had not yet been tested for human consumption or that some were human growth hormones?

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for these clowns - they deserve what should be coming to them and any whitewash by officialdom of this sordid affair would be absolutely reprehensible and an insult to those athletes and officials worldwide who strive to keep the sport clean.

Agree, the fact they did not run it past the club Doc, the players association, there manager, family or who ever they could have spoken to is laughable yet they are winning the PR battle. I just hope that it doesn't transfer to the ruling even if that hits the Dees players too.

Posted

Notwithstanding the need for all sportsmen to check what substances going into their body, Wade Lees crime was he sought to import banned substances into the country. It's not the same as the Essendon players predicament but at least Lees made the dumb choice on his own volition.

I do have some sympathy for 18-24 years old goaded by senior and respected Club personnel to participate in a dubious program. Ultimately ASADA will determine what price they have to pay. I hope those that were in charge pay higher price when this is all said and done.

Posted

Notwithstanding the need for all sportsmen to check what substances going into their body, Wade Lees crime was he sought to import banned substances into the country. It's not the same as the Essendon players predicament but at least Lees made the dumb choice on his own volition.

I do have some sympathy for 18-24 years old goaded by senior and respected Club personnel to participate in a dubious program. Ultimately ASADA will determine what price they have to pay. I hope those that were in charge pay higher price when this is all said and done.

Of course it's not the same - in fact Lees ingested no drugs at all. However, my point is that AFL players have the benefit of better education and provided with far more information. Those in charge deserve punishment and should IMO be banned from the sport for a long time, if not for life but the players don't deserve sympathy or a free pass.

Posted

I hope those that were in charge pay higher price when this is all said and done.

Look like you will get your wish. Hird now has to pay tax on a $1m plus per year for the next 3 years. He would be devastated.

Posted

Tracey Holmes was on "Offsiders" today. She made a case for the fact that ASADA has had a year to prove the drugs used in NRL and EFC were banned.

She says that:

1)it is still murky as to if the supplements were banned (at the time)

2) other large penalties in NRL's recent past have found the original offense to have subsequently been allowed

3) Head coaches do not necessarily have input into medical practice in the club

It was interesting that only Caro spoke against what I thought was outlandish statements that we heard a year ago, before the arguments and information became more complex and revealing.

Caro didnt seem outraged at all.

I think that Cronulla and Essendon will walk.

Posted

Tracey Holmes was on "Offsiders" today. She made a case for the fact that ASADA has had a year to prove the drugs used in NRL and EFC were banned.

She says that:

1)it is still murky as to if the supplements were banned (at the time)

2) other large penalties in NRL's recent past have found the original offense to have subsequently been allowed

3) Head coaches do not necessarily have input into medical practice in the club

It was interesting that only Caro spoke against what I thought was outlandish statements that we heard a year ago, before the arguments and information became more complex and revealing.

Caro didnt seem outraged at all.

I think that Cronulla and Essendon will walk.

Yes, Holmes has routinely pushed the mantra about the status of the drugs taken but it's dead wrong and no supporting evidence for that view has ever been produced save the unsubstantiated say so of a man who won't testify despite claiming to have received it from the bowels of ASADA.

On the same programme Roy Masters, a much more respected and credible journalist than Holmes said he believed the NRL's recent ruling on sanctions against Cronulla was bad news for the players.

Posted

Tracey Holmes....tabloid junkalist

Posted

Interesting talking to an Essendon supporter yesterday spinning the story that ASADA have stuffed up etc. his point was that even a murder trial doesn't run this long. My point was that it's not a trial, it's an investigation and some murder investigations last many years.

Too many people, including Essendon supporting journo's have some fixation on the time the investigation is taking. I know it would be good to have everything wrapped up so we can get on with the new season but life doesn't work that way. Not everything can be packaged up neatly.

  • Like 3

Posted

The process has been explained many times in this thread and the media. The end is coming and although Bomber fans want "closure" meaning they want it to go away by hook or by crook, some us just want to hear the truth.

All Holmes, Whateley and co want to do is obfuscate by attacking the process but they have little to say about what the players took and had stuck into their veins.

BTW Wilson did respond strongly to Holmes' comments while Masters was sniggering away in the background at Holmes' stupidity. He's also answered all of those points before on that programme - more than once.

Posted

Of course it's not the same - in fact Lees ingested no drugs at all. However, my point is that AFL players have the benefit of better education and provided with far more information. Those in charge deserve punishment and should IMO be banned from the sport for a long time, if not for life but the players don't deserve sympathy or a free pass.

Lees ingesting the drugs is irrelevant to the importation charge. And had he not been identified early in the importation phase then he could have sampled the produce.

And I thought it would have been clear that the Essendon players have not had the benefit of the education or information that is required at the AFL. Otherwise neither the Club nor players had been in this mess. And as you point out that is the reason why those in charge should be hung, drawn and quartered career wise for this systemic failure.

Posted

Look like you will get your wish. Hird now has to pay tax on a $1m plus per year for the next 3 years. He would be devastated.

Reminds me of the down and out bloke who finds a dropped pay packet in the gutter full of money (wages). Rather than being happy with rare providence he gets shitty when he reads the payslip and sees all the tax that's been deducted.

Hirds tax liability on the money was never in doubt. The club would have to deduct it before it paid him the net amount.

Posted

Lees ingesting the drugs is irrelevant to the importation charge. And had he not been identified early in the importation phase then he could have sampled the produce.

And I thought it would have been clear that the Essendon players have not had the benefit of the education or information that is required at the AFL. Otherwise neither the Club nor players had been in this mess. And as you point out that is the reason why those in charge should be hung, drawn and quartered career wise for this systemic failure.

^ ^ ^

Actually, players from every AFL club get drug education programmes on a regular basis under the aegis of the AFL and these things are constantly drummed into them. The argument Lees made was that as a VFL player he was never informed of the dangers of buying supplements on line. That's still no excuse for getting on the supplements but Lees deserves a bit more sympathy than the Essendon players who are highly paid and better informed.

  • Like 1
Posted

Reminds me of the down and out bloke who finds a dropped pay packet in the gutter full of money (wages). Rather than being happy with rare providence he gets shitty when he reads the payslip and sees all the tax that's been deducted.

Hirds tax liability on the money was never in doubt. The club would have to deduct it before it paid him the net amount.

Not necessarily.

It could be paid to a company as a service rather than an income to an individual.

Then the payment of tax becomes more complex depending on distribution.

Posted

... and then there are family trusts etc... anyway, James has already been paid in advance for his labours this year so he can push off to France or Switzerland or wherever he's going for his higher education qualifications.

Meanwhile, I noticed that the other team he coached in 2013, the Prahran Under 10's still have him down as coach although the list doesn't appear to have been updated for a while.

Posted

Not necessarily.

It could be paid to a company as a service rather than an income to an individual.

Then the payment of tax becomes more complex depending on distribution.

Sorry not for the ATO. The interplay of a company does not hide the nexus of employment.

Posted

Lees ingesting the drugs is irrelevant to the importation charge. And had he not been identified early in the importation phase then he could have sampled the produce.

Funny thing about that, he would have got the same penalty if he used it and got caught.


Posted

Reminds me of the down and out bloke who finds a dropped pay packet in the gutter full of money (wages). Rather than being happy with rare providence he gets shitty when he reads the payslip and sees all the tax that's been deducted.

Hirds tax liability on the money was never in doubt. The club would have to deduct it before it paid him the net amount.

It was a joke.

Posted

^ ^ ^

Actually, players from every AFL club get drug education programmes on a regular basis under the aegis of the AFL and these things are constantly drummed into them. The argument Lees made was that as a VFL player he was never informed of the dangers of buying supplements on line. That's still no excuse for getting on the supplements but Lees deserves a bit more sympathy than the Essendon players who are highly paid and better informed.

In the atmosphere of coercion and mis (even incorrect) information from senior respected officials, it's clear the EFC players were clearly not better informed and the level of pay is neither here nor there

Posted

Profound.

Your word or did ask someone for it.

It was a joke.

my fault. Missed it. In some ways, the payment of the $1m to the golden boy is the joke!
Posted

Funny thing about that, he would have got the same penalty if he used it and got caught.

I would thought he would have got an extra six month for usage to go with the importation.

Posted

BTW Wilson did respond strongly to Holmes' comments while Masters was sniggering away in the background at Holmes' stupidity. He's also answered all of those points before on that programme - more than once.

Just watched Outsiders and Tracy Holmes was disappointing throughout especially for the football and the cricket. I thought both Wilson and Masters had the better of her. During the supplements saga, I thought she was poorly researched and tried to play the alternative angle to an issue and came up shallow. Outsiders is better than what she served up today.

Posted

In the atmosphere of coercion and mis (even incorrect) information from senior respected officials, it's clear the EFC players were clearly not better informed and the level of pay is neither here nor there

The proposition that professional footballers who are required to attend sessions called by the AFL to educate them on the ins and outs of drugs in sport are not better informed than a part timer who gets no education whatsoever is ludicrous.

BTW I agree with your summation of Tracey Holmes embarrassing performance on the programme today but it's correct name is "Offsiders" I believe .

  • Like 2

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    TRAINING: Friday 22nd November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers were out in force on a scorching morning out at Gosch's Paddock for the final session before the whole squad reunites for the Preseason Training Camp. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS It’s going to be a scorcher today but I’m in the shade at Gosch’s Paddock ready to bring you some observations from the final session before the Preseason Training Camp next week.  Salem, Fritsch & Campbell are already on the track. Still no number on Campbell’s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports 2

    UP IN LIGHTS by Whispering Jack

    Those who watched the 2024 Marsh AFL National Championships closely this year would not be particularly surprised that Melbourne selected Victoria Country pair Harvey Langford and Xavier Lindsay on the first night of the AFL National Draft. The two left-footed midfielders are as different as chalk and cheese but they had similar impacts in their Coates Talent League teams and in the National Championships in 2024. Their interstate side was edged out at the very end of the tournament for tea

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    TRAINING: Wednesday 20th November 2024

    It’s a beautiful cool morning down at Gosch’s Paddock and I’ve arrived early to bring you my observations from today’s session. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Reigning Keith Bluey Truscott champion Jack Viney is the first one out on the track.  Jack’s wearing the red version of the new training guernsey which is the only version available for sale at the Demon Shop. TRAINING: Viney, Clarry, Lever, TMac, Rivers, Petty, McVee, Bowey, JVR, Hore, Tom Campbell (in tr

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    TRAINING: Monday 18th November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers ventured down to Gosch's Paddock for the final week of training for the 1st to 4th Years until they are joined by the rest of the senior squad for Preseason Training Camp in Mansfield next week. WAYNE RUSSELL'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS No Ollie, Chin, Riv today, but Rick & Spargs turned up and McDonald was there in casual attire. Seston, and Howes did a lot of boundary running, and Tom Campbell continued his work with individual trainer in non-MFC

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #11 Max Gawn

    Champion ruckman and brilliant leader, Max Gawn earned his seventh All-Australian team blazer and constantly held the team up on his shoulders in what was truly a difficult season for the Demons. Date of Birth: 30 December 1991 Height: 209cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 224 Goals MFC 2024: 11 Career Total: 109 Brownlow Medal Votes: 13 Melbourne Football Club: 2nd Best & Fairest: 405 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 12

    2024 Player Reviews: #36 Kysaiah Pickett

    The Demons’ aggressive small forward who kicks goals and defends the Demons’ ball in the forward arc. When he’s on song, he’s unstoppable but he did blot his copybook with a three week suspension in the final round. Date of Birth: 2 June 2001 Height: 171cm Games MFC 2024: 21 Career Total: 106 Goals MFC 2024: 36 Career Total: 161 Brownlow Medal Votes: 3 Melbourne Football Club: 4th Best & Fairest: 369 votes

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Friday 15th November 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers took advantage of the beautiful sunshine to head down to Gosch's Paddock and witness the return of Clayton Oliver to club for his first session in the lead up to the 2025 season. DEMONLAND'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Clarry in the house!! Training: JVR, McVee, Windsor, Tholstrup, Woey, Brown, Petty, Adams, Chandler, Turner, Bowey, Seston, Kentfield, Laurie, Sparrow, Viney, Rivers, Jefferson, Hore, Howes, Verrall, AMW, Clarry Tom Campbell is here

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    2024 Player Reviews: #7 Jack Viney

    The tough on baller won his second Keith 'Bluey' Truscott Trophy in a narrow battle with skipper Max Gawn and Alex Neal-Bullen and battled on manfully in the face of a number of injury niggles. Date of Birth: 13 April 1994 Height: 178cm Games MFC 2024: 23 Career Total: 219 Goals MFC 2024: 10 Career Total: 66 Brownlow Medal Votes: 8

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 3

    TRAINING: Wednesday 13th November 2024

    A couple of Demonland Trackwatchers braved the rain and headed down to Gosch's paddock to bring you their observations from the second day of Preseason training for the 1st to 4th Year players. DITCHA'S PRESEASON TRAINING OBSERVATIONS I attended some of the training today. Richo spoke to me and said not to believe what is in the media, as we will good this year. Jefferson and Kentfield looked big and strong.  Petty was doing all the training. Adams looked like he was in rehab.  KE

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...