Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[Cards13 9,117]

The more I think about the playing of the sympathy card for the Essendon players, the more it riles me.

Let's take a different tack on the subject and reprise the Wade Lees case - VFL player Wade Lees cops 18-month ban for importing performance-enhancing drugs.

One of the arguments made for Lees was that, as a VFL player who received no education on how to deal with supplements and any other substances which might lead a sportsperson to be charged with anti doping violations, he deserved some consideration.

His plea fell on deaf ears.

Now consider Lees' AFL counterparts at Essendon who, like all AFL players receive regular advice and education on drug use.

Confronted with waiver forms that detail a number of supplements that don't sound like your regular vitamins to me, their education should have alerted them to the potential peril they were facing.

Did not one of them take the trouble to check the nature of the substances they were taking?

That some of those things had not yet been tested for human consumption or that some were human growth hormones?

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for these clowns - they deserve what should be coming to them and any whitewash by officialdom of this sordid affair would be absolutely reprehensible and an insult to those athletes and officials worldwide who strive to keep the sport clean.

Agree, the fact they did not run it past the club Doc, the players association, there manager, family or who ever they could have spoken to is laughable yet they are winning the PR battle. I just hope that it doesn't transfer to the ruling even if that hits the Dees players too.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Notwithstanding the need for all sportsmen to check what substances going into their body, Wade Lees crime was he sought to import banned substances into the country. It's not the same as the Essendon players predicament but at least Lees made the dumb choice on his own volition.

I do have some sympathy for 18-24 years old goaded by senior and respected Club personnel to participate in a dubious program. Ultimately ASADA will determine what price they have to pay. I hope those that were in charge pay higher price when this is all said and done.

[Whispering_Jack 29,246]

Notwithstanding the need for all sportsmen to check what substances going into their body, Wade Lees crime was he sought to import banned substances into the country. It's not the same as the Essendon players predicament but at least Lees made the dumb choice on his own volition.

I do have some sympathy for 18-24 years old goaded by senior and respected Club personnel to participate in a dubious program. Ultimately ASADA will determine what price they have to pay. I hope those that were in charge pay higher price when this is all said and done.

Of course it's not the same - in fact Lees ingested no drugs at all. However, my point is that AFL players have the benefit of better education and provided with far more information. Those in charge deserve punishment and should IMO be banned from the sport for a long time, if not for life but the players don't deserve sympathy or a free pass.

[Redleg 40,228]

I hope those that were in charge pay higher price when this is all said and done.

Look like you will get your wish. Hird now has to pay tax on a $1m plus per year for the next 3 years. He would be devastated.

[Damo 3,254]

Tracey Holmes was on "Offsiders" today. She made a case for the fact that ASADA has had a year to prove the drugs used in NRL and EFC were banned.

She says that:

1)it is still murky as to if the supplements were banned (at the time)

2) other large penalties in NRL's recent past have found the original offense to have subsequently been allowed

3) Head coaches do not necessarily have input into medical practice in the club

It was interesting that only Caro spoke against what I thought was outlandish statements that we heard a year ago, before the arguments and information became more complex and revealing.

Caro didnt seem outraged at all.

I think that Cronulla and Essendon will walk.

[Whispering_Jack 29,246]

Tracey Holmes was on "Offsiders" today. She made a case for the fact that ASADA has had a year to prove the drugs used in NRL and EFC were banned.

She says that:

1)it is still murky as to if the supplements were banned (at the time)

2) other large penalties in NRL's recent past have found the original offense to have subsequently been allowed

3) Head coaches do not necessarily have input into medical practice in the club

It was interesting that only Caro spoke against what I thought was outlandish statements that we heard a year ago, before the arguments and information became more complex and revealing.

Caro didnt seem outraged at all.

I think that Cronulla and Essendon will walk.

Yes, Holmes has routinely pushed the mantra about the status of the drugs taken but it's dead wrong and no supporting evidence for that view has ever been produced save the unsubstantiated say so of a man who won't testify despite claiming to have received it from the bowels of ASADA.

On the same programme Roy Masters, a much more respected and credible journalist than Holmes said he believed the NRL's recent ruling on sanctions against Cronulla was bad news for the players.

[beelzebub 23,200]

Tracey Holmes....tabloid junkalist

[rjay 24,616]

Interesting talking to an Essendon supporter yesterday spinning the story that ASADA have stuffed up etc. his point was that even a murder trial doesn't run this long. My point was that it's not a trial, it's an investigation and some murder investigations last many years.

Too many people, including Essendon supporting journo's have some fixation on the time the investigation is taking. I know it would be good to have everything wrapped up so we can get on with the new season but life doesn't work that way. Not everything can be packaged up neatly.

[Hulett Packard III 166]

The process has been explained many times in this thread and the media. The end is coming and although Bomber fans want "closure" meaning they want it to go away by hook or by crook, some us just want to hear the truth.

All Holmes, Whateley and co want to do is obfuscate by attacking the process but they have little to say about what the players took and had stuck into their veins.

BTW Wilson did respond strongly to Holmes' comments while Masters was sniggering away in the background at Holmes' stupidity. He's also answered all of those points before on that programme - more than once.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Of course it's not the same - in fact Lees ingested no drugs at all. However, my point is that AFL players have the benefit of better education and provided with far more information. Those in charge deserve punishment and should IMO be banned from the sport for a long time, if not for life but the players don't deserve sympathy or a free pass.

Lees ingesting the drugs is irrelevant to the importation charge. And had he not been identified early in the importation phase then he could have sampled the produce.

And I thought it would have been clear that the Essendon players have not had the benefit of the education or information that is required at the AFL. Otherwise neither the Club nor players had been in this mess. And as you point out that is the reason why those in charge should be hung, drawn and quartered career wise for this systemic failure.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Look like you will get your wish. Hird now has to pay tax on a $1m plus per year for the next 3 years. He would be devastated.

Reminds me of the down and out bloke who finds a dropped pay packet in the gutter full of money (wages). Rather than being happy with rare providence he gets shitty when he reads the payslip and sees all the tax that's been deducted.

Hirds tax liability on the money was never in doubt. The club would have to deduct it before it paid him the net amount.

[Rolling Stone 146]

Lees ingesting the drugs is irrelevant to the importation charge. And had he not been identified early in the importation phase then he could have sampled the produce.

And I thought it would have been clear that the Essendon players have not had the benefit of the education or information that is required at the AFL. Otherwise neither the Club nor players had been in this mess. And as you point out that is the reason why those in charge should be hung, drawn and quartered career wise for this systemic failure.

^ ^ ^

Actually, players from every AFL club get drug education programmes on a regular basis under the aegis of the AFL and these things are constantly drummed into them. The argument Lees made was that as a VFL player he was never informed of the dangers of buying supplements on line. That's still no excuse for getting on the supplements but Lees deserves a bit more sympathy than the Essendon players who are highly paid and better informed.

[daisycutter 29,343]

Reminds me of the down and out bloke who finds a dropped pay packet in the gutter full of money (wages). Rather than being happy with rare providence he gets shitty when he reads the payslip and sees all the tax that's been deducted.

Hirds tax liability on the money was never in doubt. The club would have to deduct it before it paid him the net amount.

Not necessarily.

It could be paid to a company as a service rather than an income to an individual.

Then the payment of tax becomes more complex depending on distribution.

[Whispering_Jack 29,246]

... and then there are family trusts etc... anyway, James has already been paid in advance for his labours this year so he can push off to France or Switzerland or wherever he's going for his higher education qualifications.

Meanwhile, I noticed that the other team he coached in 2013, the Prahran Under 10's still have him down as coach although the list doesn't appear to have been updated for a while.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Not necessarily.

It could be paid to a company as a service rather than an income to an individual.

Then the payment of tax becomes more complex depending on distribution.

Sorry not for the ATO. The interplay of a company does not hide the nexus of employment.

[biggestred 4,823]

At the end of the day you and only you are responsible for what is injected into your body (unless you are on the operating table).

[The Great Pretender 454]

Sorry not for the ATO. The interplay of a company does not hide the nexus of employment.

Profound.

[Redleg 40,228]

Lees ingesting the drugs is irrelevant to the importation charge. And had he not been identified early in the importation phase then he could have sampled the produce.

Funny thing about that, he would have got the same penalty if he used it and got caught.

[Redleg 40,228]

Reminds me of the down and out bloke who finds a dropped pay packet in the gutter full of money (wages). Rather than being happy with rare providence he gets shitty when he reads the payslip and sees all the tax that's been deducted.

Hirds tax liability on the money was never in doubt. The club would have to deduct it before it paid him the net amount.

It was a joke.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

^ ^ ^

Actually, players from every AFL club get drug education programmes on a regular basis under the aegis of the AFL and these things are constantly drummed into them. The argument Lees made was that as a VFL player he was never informed of the dangers of buying supplements on line. That's still no excuse for getting on the supplements but Lees deserves a bit more sympathy than the Essendon players who are highly paid and better informed.

In the atmosphere of coercion and mis (even incorrect) information from senior respected officials, it's clear the EFC players were clearly not better informed and the level of pay is neither here nor there

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Profound.

Your word or did ask someone for it.

It was a joke.

my fault. Missed it. In some ways, the payment of the $1m to the golden boy is the joke!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Funny thing about that, he would have got the same penalty if he used it and got caught.

I would thought he would have got an extra six month for usage to go with the importation.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

BTW Wilson did respond strongly to Holmes' comments while Masters was sniggering away in the background at Holmes' stupidity. He's also answered all of those points before on that programme - more than once.

Just watched Outsiders and Tracy Holmes was disappointing throughout especially for the football and the cricket. I thought both Wilson and Masters had the better of her. During the supplements saga, I thought she was poorly researched and tried to play the alternative angle to an issue and came up shallow. Outsiders is better than what she served up today.

[The Great Pretender 454]

In the atmosphere of coercion and mis (even incorrect) information from senior respected officials, it's clear the EFC players were clearly not better informed and the level of pay is neither here nor there

The proposition that professional footballers who are required to attend sessions called by the AFL to educate them on the ins and outs of drugs in sport are not better informed than a part timer who gets no education whatsoever is ludicrous.

BTW I agree with your summation of Tracey Holmes embarrassing performance on the programme today but it's correct name is "Offsiders" I believe .

[Whispering_Jack 29,246]

It may or may not explain her conduct but I believe Holmes is an Essendon supporter.