Your guess is as good as anyone's jazza.

I fluctuate from day to day, I have to keep reminding myself "is this what you want to read or is it actually the reverse?"

i would like to throw mud at em for the next 20 years.

under current feelings of mine, is the sport has melted down a bit,much like cycling now.

but they are gon,adrianna will turnover the E.

got no doubts about that.

I wouldn't be surprised if the pressure is on him to find cause for infraction notices to be issued, as I think that ASADA won't want to be put in a position where they could be considered toothless, the govt will want a result that will send a message to all sporting bodies, and the AFL will want their previous action of charging Essendon with bringing the game into disrepute to be validated (could Essendon take action against them in the courts if no infraction notices are forthcoming?).

The reason for the AFL punishing Essendon was for the injecting program bringing the game into disrepute. Remember, not only did they have an injecting program but they apparently have no documents or knowledge of what was injected.

The Infraction Notices do not in any way alter that position.

The reason for the AFL punishing Essendon was for the injecting program bringing the game into disrepute. Remember, not only did they have an injecting program but they apparently have no documents or knowledge of what was injected.

The Infraction Notices do not in any way alter that position.

I concur.

No thinking person believes that Essendon kept no records of the injection program. It is a palpable lie. They had records and destroyed them.

This is dishonest and shows no duty of care to players potential future health problems.

No company in Australia would get away with this level of deceit and corruption without serious charges.

Please take the time to read.the Notice of Charge 1.6

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

The redacted items would curl your hair or in JH's case put a little too much lead in his pencil.

Essendon must have more pain to come.

I concur.

No thinking person believes that Essendon kept no records of the injection program. It is a palpable lie. They had records and destroyed them.

This is dishonest and shows no duty of care to players potential future health problems.

No company in Australia would get away with this level of deceit and corruption without serious charges.

Please take the time to read.the Notice of Charge 1.6

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

The redacted items would curl your hair or in JH's case put a little to much lead in his pencil.

Essendon must have more pain to come.

This one suspects there were no records.

It appears to me that the whole thing was haphazard with no one controlling it, everyone thought someone else was doing it.

It is my experience that most great conspiracy's were in actual fact just incompetent stuff ups.

You don't swim that close to the line (and over it) without it being part of a systematic effort to improve performance. Records would have been kept simply to guide the series of supplements to achieve their intended purpose...

Dirty business to have "lost" them.

This one suspects there were no records.

It appears to me that the whole thing was haphazard with no one controlling it, everyone thought someone else was doing it.

It is my experience that most great conspiracy's were in actual fact just incompetent stuff ups.

Surely you jest

Cannot find my source at the moment but 11,000 injections upto 40 players So the players were to get almost 300 injections each of various substances and nobody keep records! I am not saying this of you but only a simpleton would accept the no records were kept lie.

Here is a short list of the drugs allegedly given to the players from the 34 page Notice of Charges (page 24-25):

• actovegin
• unspecified amino acids
• unspecified multi-vitamins
• AOD-9604 creams
• AOD-9604 injections
• cerebrolysin
• colostrum
• REDACTED (it’s blanked out in the charge list)
• lactaway
• lube-all-plus
• melatonin
• melanotan II
• TA-65
• thymosin beta 4
• traumeel
• tribulus

And what, nobody keep any records of who took what. Get real. It is a massive cover up by Essendon.

Check out the articles on. https://theconversation.com/topics/essendon

lube-all-plus !!!

This is a gift that keeps giving...

lube-all-plus !!!

This is a gift that keeps giving...

Lube All Plus™ Horse and Dog Supplement

Yes seriously that is what it is. https://www.equiade.com/Equiade-Lube-All-Plus-Horse-Dog-Supplement.htm

The reason for the AFL punishing Essendon was for the injecting program bringing the game into disrepute. Remember, not only did they have an injecting program but they apparently have no documents or knowledge of what was injected.

The Infraction Notices do not in any way alter that position.

From memory, one of the sticking points with the AFL/Essendon punishment negotiations was that Essendon would, under no circumstances, agree to anything that stated they had given their players anything illegal.

Have they in fact opened themselves up to further punishment if more than 2 players receive sanctions? One can only hope!

Surely you jest

Cannot find my source at the moment but 11,000 injections upto 40 players So the players were to get almost 300 injections each of various substances and nobody keep records! I am not saying this of you but only a simpleton would accept the no records were kept lie.

Here is a short list of the drugs allegedly given to the players from the 34 page Notice of Charges (page 24-25):

• actovegin
• unspecified amino acids
• unspecified multi-vitamins
• AOD-9604 creams
• AOD-9604 injections
• cerebrolysin
• colostrum
• REDACTED (it’s blanked out in the charge list)
• lactaway
• lube-all-plus
• melatonin
• melanotan II
• TA-65
• thymosin beta 4
• traumeel
• tribulus

And what, nobody keep any records of who took what. Get real. It is a massive cover up by Essendon.

Check out the articles on. https://theconversation.com/topics/essendon

I always find that sort of statement funny Mandee.

It is similar to " I don't intend to insult you" and then go right ahead and do it.

However mate you can call me a simpleton if that is what you think, I have a thick skin I won't cry myself to sleep tonight.

Calling me a liar will get my dander up, but we are safe there.

I will just maintain my stance that most conspiracy's are in fact just incompetent stuff ups.

From memory, one of the sticking points with the AFL/Essendon punishment negotiations was that Essendon would, under no circumstances, agree to anything that stated they had given their players anything illegal.

Have they in fact opened themselves up to further punishment if more than 2 players receive sanctions? One can only hope!

Isn't it two or more?

There should also have been receipts and invoices for the quite substantial costs of the drugs. Looks like there has been some fiddling with the books or payments were made in brown paper bags to illicit drug dealers

I always find that sort of statement funny Mandee.

It is similar to " I don't intend to insult you" and then go right ahead and do it.

However mate you can call me a simpleton if that is what you think, I have a thick skin I won't cry myself to sleep tonight.

Calling me a liar will get my dander up, but we are safe there.

I will just maintain my stance that most conspiracy's are in fact just incompetent stuff ups.

Sorry, really had no intentions of insulting you. I certainly have no knowledge that would indicate that you are a simpleton, quite the contrary.

I suppose my over zealous rant led to including you. You may well be right that "most conspiracy's are in fact just incompetent stuff ups."

I don't think this is one of those cases. But I respect your right to disagree.

Go dees!

PS:- I read my rant again, it was poorly/hastily written. I accept the wrath. It does read like a dig at you. Your point was fair "most conspiracy's" My humble apologies

Sorry, really had no intentions of insulting you. I certainly have no knowledge that would indicate that you are a simpleton, quite the contrary.

I suppose my over zealous rant led to including you. You may well be right that "most conspiracy's are in fact just incompetent stuff ups."

I don't think this is one of those cases. But I respect your right to disagree.

Go dees!

Oh God sorry Mandee I was not getting agro or anything.

All sweet with me mate.

I have no intention of getting into an argument with a Dees supporter over the bloody EFC.

I hope we can win a few this year and make both us happy.

Oh God sorry Mandee I was not getting agro or anything.

All sweet with me mate.

I have no intention of getting into an argument with a Dees supporter over the bloody EFC.

I hope we can win a few this year and make both us happy.

We are good. I had no intention of upsetting you. You were right to pick up on that point, thank you. The last thing I want to do is be rude to MFC supporters.

I am quite happy to give it to Essendon at every opportunity.

Now that ManDee and OldDee have kissed and made up, I have to agree with ManDee (minus simpleton).

Anyway, this is not a case of "conspiracy versus [censored]-up". I don't see shredding the records as a conspiracy. I see it as the natural act of someone holding evidence that incriminates themselves.

I nearly dropped my pop corn when I saw the lube all plus. One can only assume this is to allow Brand Hird to get there heads in his a hole, it would be a tight fit with James and his wifes head in there already.

Now that ManDee and OldDee have kissed and made up, I have to agree with ManDee (minus simpleton).

Anyway, this is not a case of "conspiracy versus [censored]-up". I don't see shredding the records as a conspiracy. I see it as the natural act of someone holding evidence that incriminates themselves.

Excuse my ignorance but is there evidence they did away with the records?

I have never seen that stated anywhere.

Now Mandee may be correct I may be a simpleton but I have never seen that up til now.

I nearly dropped my pop corn when I saw the lube all plus. One can only assume this is to allow Brand Hird to get there heads in his a hole, it would be a tight fit with James and his wifes head in there already.

you were lucky it was only popcorn, i dropped a whole jar of viagra

I nearly dropped my pop corn when I saw the lube all plus. One can only assume this is to allow Brand Hird to get there heads in his a hole, it would be a tight fit with James and his wifes head in there already.

Impossible I would have thought!

you were lucky it was only popcorn, i dropped a whole jar of viagra

Lucky man dc you have the use for a whole jar!!

Excuse my ignorance but is there evidence they did away with the records?

I have never seen that stated anywhere.

Now Mandee may be correct I may be a simpleton but I have never seen that up til now.

(h) failed to identify and record the source from which all substances used by players

were obtained;

(i) failed to adequately monitor and record the use of substances;

(j) failed to audit or monitor all substances held on the premises of the Club;

(k) failed to implement a system for recording and storing all substances held on the

premises of the Club;

etc. etc. etc.

follow the link and read on. http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

It is an amazing read.

I am not saying there is any evidence that they did away with the records, but it is obvious that they did.

PS:- I promise not to use the word simpleton again. Well, I will endeavor not to use it again!

(h) failed to identify and record the source from which all substances used by players

were obtained;

(i) failed to adequately monitor and record the use of substances;

(j) failed to audit or monitor all substances held on the premises of the Club;

(k) failed to implement a system for recording and storing all substances held on the

premises of the Club;

etc. etc. etc.

follow the link and read on. http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

It is an amazing read.

PS:- I promise not to use the word simpleton again. Well, I will endeavor not to use it again!

I understand all that but I don't believe it says they destroyed the records.

To me it says they were just haphazard and incompetent.

Is that not the case?

OldDee, if firm evidence ever comes out proving that they did destroy records, they will be in massive trouble.

But if I had to bet on whether they simply never kept any or did keep them but destroyed them when the excrement started to hit the fan, I know where I'd put my money. As I said it's not conspiracy vs stuff-up, it's Incompetence versus cover-up. I don't think Essendon would be that incompetent.

I understand all that but I don't believe it says they destroyed the records.

To me it says they were just haphazard and incompetent.

Is that not the case?

I added a line in my edit. I am not saying there is any evidence that they did away with the records, but it is obvious that they did.

Caught me twice in one day shooting off before I was ready to shoot. I suffer from premature-posting. Essendon probably have something for that left in the cupboard.