On 15/07/2013 at 02:25, rpfc said:

Trengove, Gawn, Toumpas, Garland, McDonald, Clisby, Kent, Viney?

That would make a decent VFL team...

You're joking. Trengove is a spud. Gawn is definitely a VFL lower level player, Viney is injury prone and too small, garland tries hard, klisby, kent and Toumpas are average players in a bottom team. None has shown any evidence of ever being in a premiership team.

Melbourne is currently a disgrace and needs a huge clean out.

I'd be looking to delist Sellar, MacDonald, Jetta, Gillies and Davis. If more have to be delisted, Tynan and then Nicholson are going to be in trouble. As for rookies, I'd straight away upgrade Clisby, I've seen plenty there. Magner and Couch have to be in trouble given they can't get a game. Magner potentially gets one more year, but Couch probably goes.

If a club wants Tapscott, they can have him. Same goes for Strauss.

I'd stay away from Cross, his form this year has been terrible. Whilst he adds a stronger body, leadership and some clearance skill, he cannot kick to save his life, and we have enough slow midfielders who can't kick.

  On 15/07/2013 at 10:29, Demon31 said:

You're joking. Trengove is a spud. Gawn is definitely a VFL lower level player, Viney is injury prone and too small, garland tries hard, klisby, kent and Toumpas are average players in a bottom team. None has shown any evidence of ever being in a premiership team.

  On 15/07/2013 at 10:30, Demon31 said:

Melbourne is currently a disgrace and needs a huge clean out.

You spelled 'Demon31' wrong.

  On 15/07/2013 at 10:29, Demon31 said:

You're joking. Trengove is a spud. Gawn is definitely a VFL lower level player, Viney is injury prone and too small, garland tries hard, klisby, kent and Toumpas are average players in a bottom team. None has shown any evidence of ever being in a premiership team.

Troll much?

  On 15/07/2013 at 10:10, Demon31 said:

This is the same mentality that got rid of all our senior players and left us with no leaders or mentors. You can't just dump all the senior leaders and bring in fresh kids with no examples to follow and no older wiser heads to show the way. Sellar however does NOT add depth apart from the deep holes that the ball makes when he drops every mark.

I don't know how my post - that was warning of the dangers of 'getting rid' of everyone who 'just needs to go' - illustrates that mentality.

  On 15/07/2013 at 10:29, Demon31 said:

You're joking. Trengove is a spud. Gawn is definitely a VFL lower level player, Viney is injury prone and too small, garland tries hard, klisby, kent and Toumpas are average players in a bottom team. None has shown any evidence of ever being in a premiership team.

Ok, so here you are betraying your footy IQ. Trengove, Viney, and Toumpas are all great talents who simply need time and injury free pre-seasons. Gawn is developing incredibly well for a 208cm bohemoth, Clisby has the making of a very neat and capable backman, Kent has shown more than a great number of teenagers have in his first few games, and Garland is, right now, in the top 100 players in the game and finally getting the positive attention he has long deserved.

The fact that you dismissed all these players instead of walking back your self-indulgent comment about our terrible list, tells me that you don't care to have a serious argument, you only care to inflame and [censored] off people.

You can do that, but don't expect any desire from us to engage with you when you get over whatever issues you have and what to have an honest conversation about the Dees.

  On 15/07/2013 at 11:54, rpfc said:

I don't know how my post - that was warning of the dangers of 'getting rid' of everyone who 'just needs to go' - illustrates that mentality.

Ok, so here you are betraying your footy IQ. Trengove, Viney, and Toumpas are all great talents who simply need time and injury free pre-seasons. Gawn is developing incredibly well for a 208cm bohemoth, Clisby has the making of a very neat and capable backman, Kent has shown more than a great number of teenagers have in his first few games, and Garland is, right now, in the top 100 players in the game and finally getting the positive attention he has long deserved.

The fact that you dismissed all these players instead of walking back your self-indulgent comment about our terrible list, tells me that you don't care to have a serious argument, you only care to inflame and [censored] people.

You can do that, but don't expect any desire from us to engage with you when you get over whatever issues you have and what to have an honest conversation about the Dees.

IQ and Demon31 ?

Oil and Water more like it

Not sure if discussed yet

Do we seriously look at fielding offers for the Russian, should they come. ( they have in the past )

In a fashion undermining my own arguments but he ( MJ) hasnt got to the track in a meaningful fashion this year. He might next, might.

30 this year but possibly with one or two OK years left in him. He is an accomplished ruck even if not quite on song at the moment. Still, they dont grown on trees, decent rucks !!

Is it just possible his greater worth , to the club is as part of trade bringing more currency or indeed a player for our starving midfield.

its unlikely Russian will be part of any Premiership tilt.

We have been playing without him, will it make a lot of difference in that dept if that continued ?

  On 16/07/2013 at 00:45, belzebub59 said:

Not sure if discussed yet

Do we seriously look at fielding offers for the Russian, should they come. ( they have in the past )

In a fashion undermining my own arguments but he ( MJ) hasnt got to the track in a meaningful fashion this year. He might next, might.

30 this year but possibly with one or two OK years left in him. He is an accomplished ruck even if not quite on song at the moment. Still, they dont grown on trees, decent rucks !!

Is it just possible his greater worth , to the club is as part of trade bringing more currency or indeed a player for our starving midfield.

its unlikely Russian will be part of any Premiership tilt.

We have been playing without him, will it make a lot of difference in that dept if that continued ?

He has played a lot of games in the last two years that IMO he has not justified his spot.

Again IMO Spenser and Gawn do as well and contribute more round the ground.

Trade if there is a reasonable offer.

What is reasonable? God knows!

What sort of overall trade week out comes would people be happy with?

for me i'm not sure what trade bait we have, but i'd love

Adams, Miles, Cross and Aish and i think that is fairly realistic if our PP was a late 1st round pick we could trade that for adams, trade another pick for miles ( hugely underrated and fantastic leader) sign cross as a free agent and Aish i think is the best of the mids in the draft for our pick 2

  On 15/07/2013 at 10:29, Demon31 said:

You're joking. Trengove is a spud. Gawn is definitely a VFL lower level player, Viney is injury prone and too small, garland tries hard, klisby, kent and Toumpas are average players in a bottom team. None has shown any evidence of ever being in a premiership team.

Surely this is a joke? Trenners is 22 and had more than his fair share of injuries, Garland in my opinion is an All Australian quality versatile defender, Toumpas and kent are both young but show promise, as does clisby allthough he is a raw talent at this stage

My targets are:

Pearce Hanley (yet to re-sign) for Tappscott and Sylvia (can we trade a restricted free agent?)
Taylor Adams (yet to re-sign) for Jamar and 3rd round pick
Dale Thomas (free agent, yet to re-sign) Free agent
Rory Sloane (yet to re-sign, but seems like a long shot) for pick 20 and Fitzpatrick

Draft Dom Sheed with our first pick.

Draft mids and small forwards with the rest, rookie list a ruckman (or use late pick).

you can trade a free agent if the player is up for it

Trading a RFA has precedent - Monfries was effectively traded from Ess to PA.

Trading a UFA is trickier and I really doubt whether it can be done, I also don't think the AFL should allow it. The PFA would not like it at all.

SCENARIO WHERE UFA MIGHT BE TRADED: Player X is free and has no attachments (like RFA) to his previous club, but because his new club doesn't want to dilute the compensation that it has received from a FA who has left, they wish to trade in Player X.

rpfc's view of this possible hypothetical:

The AFL should step in at this point and not allow it in my opinion. The PFA rightly has said that compensation is geting in the way of clubs signing FAs as they don't wish to dilute their compensation should they lose a FA.

Frankly, the AFL should either forget this 'net loss/gain' idea that they got from the NFL (where there is a huge turnover in FA of middling players) and label FAs as Tier 1, Tier 2 and Untiered.

Tier 1 gets a 1st round pick BEHIND the team's pick. Tier 2 gets a 2nd round pick BEHIND the team's pick. Untiered would be the majority of these FAs and allow these players to be signed without indirectly punishing a team for doing so.

Franklin and Thomas would be Tier 1. Sylvia would be Tier 2. Daniel Jackson would be untiered. It would be based on salary, b+f finish, games played etc.

For example; we could sign Jackson in FA without diminishing our compensation for Sylvia.

  On 18/07/2013 at 01:42, rpfc said:

For example; we could sign Jackson in FA without diminishing our compensation for Sylvia.

I am not sure this is entirely accurate based on our compensation for Rivers and Moloney and Byrnes's worth.

  On 18/07/2013 at 01:54, Fat Tony said:

I am not sure this is entirely accurate based on our compensation for Rivers and Moloney and Byrnes's worth.

No, it wouldn't be.

I use that example in my new tiered system to fix the issue of clubs who have lost a high-end FA staying out of FA altogether.

More tough decisions are going to have to be made at seasons end, i would suggest there aren't many players who are safe.

  On 20/07/2013 at 12:36, Demonfan26 said:

More tough decisions are going to have to be made at seasons end, i would suggest there aren't many players who are safe.

bring back Neeld, you mean? That worked well...

  On 20/07/2013 at 12:40, robbiefrom13 said:

bring back Neeld, you mean? That worked well...

Anyone but Neeld! but we really need to get a midfield somehow, maybe look at trading some underperformers.

Dunn, Pedersen and Blease are all contracted for 2014.

None of them should be here, though.

today surely has confirmed a PP coming our way. 13th vs 17th shouldn't be close to 100 points

Would be happy if they traded Grimes, Trengove, Davey, Burns, Blease, McKenzie, Pederson, Dunn and Gillies.

Nothing but a pack of plodders and one-way runners.

If GWS can beat Collingwood (46-30 at half time) and then us next week, we'll be on the bottom! Pick 1 - Josh Kelly and Pick 2 (trade below) - Jack Billings. Add to this a good mature midfielder in the PSD and we are away! Definitely get rid of Sellar (Dodo), Gillies, Dunn, Jetta, Watts (trade only with possible part of trade to GWS for pick 2 with Spencer), Nicholson, Strauss, Kent.

A good start!

As well as J McDonald, Bail, Couch, Magner

  On 16/07/2013 at 00:45, belzebub59 said:

Not sure if discussed yet

Do we seriously look at fielding offers for the Russian, should they come. ( they have in the past )

In a fashion undermining my own arguments but he ( MJ) hasnt got to the track in a meaningful fashion this year. He might next, might.

30 this year but possibly with one or two OK years left in him. He is an accomplished ruck even if not quite on song at the moment. Still, they dont grown on trees, decent rucks !!

Is it just possible his greater worth , to the club is as part of trade bringing more currency or indeed a player for our starving midfield.

its unlikely Russian will be part of any Premiership tilt.

We have been playing without him, will it make a lot of difference in that dept if that continued ?

Yes the Russian is past his best! Trade him and Watts to GWS for Pick 1 0r 2

The only reason we will get players to the dees is for money and once they get here they know they don't need to earn it.