I agree with Neeld, would like to believe we are better but look at who we have beaten in the past five years. I want a team that can win finals and flags not just win every now and then. Going to take a long long time.

Reckon if we were on a path to winning finals and flags with this foundation, we'd now be winning some home and aways every now and then.

Five years - no problem. I've waited 50 years, I can wait another five. But there need to be some changes.

In most businesses, the board establishes the targets, not the factory manager. I want the board to set targets for the players and the coach. Targets that determine whether or not the individual is performing. There are so many stats kept on players, it shouldn't be too hard to establish targets for them. Make match payments performance based, as far as the salary cap allows. For coaches,there is one main performance indicator - number of wins. I want targets set - 2 wins this year, 8 wins next year, 12 wins the year after. That fits comfortably into the coaching contract. This year is gone, 8 wins next year or we replace the coach, with someone who is prepared to meet the targets set by the board, not someone who starts another rebuild.

A previous poster pointed out that the Club is the players, the coach, the administration and the members. I'd include all the supporters, members or not. We need information from the Club, not platitudes. Get someone from the Club to respond to selected posts each week - let the Board and Administration show some interest in what the supporters think.

Five years - no problem. I've waited 50 years, I can wait another five. But there need to be some changes.

In most businesses, the board establishes the targets, not the factory manager. I want the board to set targets for the players and the coach. Targets that determine whether or not the individual is performing. There are so many stats kept on players, it shouldn't be too hard to establish targets for them. Make match payments performance based, as far as the salary cap allows. For coaches,there is one main performance indicator - number of wins. I want targets set - 2 wins this year, 8 wins next year, 12 wins the year after. That fits comfortably into the coaching contract. This year is gone, 8 wins next year or we replace the coach, with someone who is prepared to meet the targets set by the board, not someone who starts another rebuild.

A previous poster pointed out that the Club is the players, the coach, the administration and the members. I'd include all the supporters, members or not. We need information from the Club, not platitudes. Get someone from the Club to respond to selected posts each week - let the Board and Administration show some interest in what the supporters think.

we'll have none of that if you dont mind umpire..

Actually can you bring it in truckloads.

Youve identified a number of culprits.. the board and the fd/coaches come 'tour guides'

Problem is we have neither of an effective one. But its a start to identify this.

how can i put it any more clearly

This guy is delusional, seriously f'd inb the head. The guys in white coats would be coming should Kew only still be operating

why this position ?

Its where he puts benchmarks and how he arrives at them. He thinks today was OK..deep down he does Im sure..

Mitch Clark now knows he has a looney as a boss, poor [censored] !!

I really thought we had a decent thinker at the helm, I now realise he is batty.

Mark,listen and listen good . There is NOTHING good in a 34 point loss. it means we LOST.

Guess why..you sewed these seeds before the game. Its ok guys I dont expect you to win , nor be really competitive, not for 5 years. Im sorry this is only the thinking of an [censored].

Its all well and good to realise things take time but dont run that up the flagpole.

Gee thanks bub, if you hadn't told me I wouldn't have known a 34 point loss is a loss.

FFS. When you're as bad as we are, there can be good things in a loss, and there were today. If you don't want to see those because you're turning into a Range Rover style one-dimensional 'SACK HIM' fool, so be it. But you're being silly.

Watch the press conference with Neeld and Dawes: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2013-05-19/mark-neeld-and-chris-dawes-postmatch-media-conference

At about the 1:10 mark Neeld is going on about peaks and troughs and Dawes cuts him off and states that effort at AFL level shouldn't need to be coached. Basically, Dawes is stating clearly and bluntly what is and isn't acceptable while Neeld is making excuses. Worth a watch!

This is another example of how you let your bias influence reason.

What I see there is Dawes standing up for Neeld, who is having to defend himself. Neeld says we have to continue to reinforce the effort aspect of football during training, Dawes cuts in and says 'that shouldn't be on the coaches, it shouldn't need to be coached, it needs to be the players who drive that'.

All true.

This is another example of how you let your bias influence reason.

What I see there is Dawes standing up for Neeld, who is having to defend himself. Neeld says we have to continue to reinforce the effort aspect of football during training, Dawes cuts in and says 'that shouldn't be on the coaches, it shouldn't need to be coached, it needs to be the players who drive that'.

All true.

What are you talking about? I wasn't saying that Dawes was having a go at Neeld. I was saying take notice of the contrast the two have, Neeld was making excuses while Dawes was clearly stating what is and isn't acceptable.

TA..you are obliously easily sated.. just as the coach is.. enjoy your time in losing land together.

Dawes isnt satnding up for Neeld... he simply cant beleive how daft his boss is.

TA..you are obliously easily sated.. just as the coach is.. enjoy your time in losing land together.

Dawes isnt satnding up for Neeld... he simply cant beleive how daft his boss is.

Am I the only one giggling at the irony of this post....

A lot of pot calling the kettle black in the delusion area bb - just believe what you perceive to be real bb? (I will bet u whatever you like Dawes was sticking up for Neeld)

Looks like Neeld has his job for one more week bb - you'll be happier next week after the fro game

Edit - Iphone corrections

Thats right UH CD and Clark are right on Neelds page

have another look, another read.

Both have shown dismay at their illustrious leaders stance.

but hey...enjoy your position.. Melbournes doing just grand...hey

Dawes isnt satnding up for Neeld... he simply cant beleive how daft his boss is.

"Defending his coach, recruit Chris Dawes said effort was player driven and that Sunday's level had to become the regular standard."

http://www.afl.com.au:

keep believing that guys

Thats right UH CD and Clark are right on Neelds page

have another look, another read.

Both have shown dismay at their illustrious leaders stance.

but hey...enjoy your position.. Melbournes doing just grand...hey

Go have a hot drink come back and think about what you're saying BB

I'll bet you whatever you want (money, houses whatever) that Dawes and Clark both support Neeld. The reference you are talking about is a comment from Clark about Neelds media conference on Saturday.... I agree that Mitch didn't approve (especially if you only read the comment to the question).... But if you actually take a second to watch the press conference or read Mitch's comment you'll find they support Neeld. i htink you'll find mitch said the PLAYERS can turn it around

Some extra food for thought BB - Dawes came to the MFC because of Neeld - Dawes in that press conference said it was on the players to perform not the coaches - it must really hurt you Neeld will be coaching again nest week

Enjoy

I was a big Neeld fan but after hearing his 5 year plan before we are any good, he has now lost me. Neeld is probably a great bloke, but the AFL/ melbourne members and supporters won't put up with it. Simple. It took Port, Richmond and Adelaide much less time too improve even in the slightest manner and we have seemed to go backwards bad. That would have meant we would have been rebuilding since 2007!! Anymore heavy losses Neeld should save both us and himself anymore further embarrassment and resign otherwise he will be gone by seasons end.

Mark Williams, Paul Roos, and Rodney Eade are all perfect candidates to take over. We need a coach who demands respect of the playing list and a coach that the players love to play for. Ala we need a premiership coach/ mentor for our kids!!!

Chris Dawes' voice genuinely hurts my ears, couldn't get any lower if he tried.

Thats right UH CD and Clark are right on Neelds page

have another look, another read.

Sigh ...

"Clark also said that he enjoyed playing under Neeld"

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-19/clark-hopes-for-quicker-demon-revival

I saw the press conference as Dawes intimating that Neeld is responsible for everything else other than effort - "That's on the players" Dawes said. Dawes remarks could therefore be interpreted as placing the onus right back on Neeld to get the team playing winning football. Clark also had some interesting things to say today about Neeld's 5 year 'Rebuild'.

Dawes came across as well spoken and quite smart. Neeld was just being his usual self. His remark about Toumpas and Viney sitting at the back of the back of the coaching box was questionable. "See how hard it is" or words to that effect. Why does he continually make these type of remarks? What's that got to do with winning games of footy? We're copping all these putrid losses here and he's making silly references to how hard his job is? Give us a break.

And how many references to how young and inexperienced we are? Can he just give it a rest? He uses it as a mechanism early and goes back to it at various times. Maybe he should have made a greater effort to keep Rivers and Moloney - there's a bit of experience.

He doesn't seem to be at all upset about losing and he never talks about winning. Does he even know what he's been employed to do? I blame the Board and McLardy as well. They are virtually silent on the subject of winning games. Neeld is here to win games of footy - the rest of it is just filler. He will lose his job unless he wins games.

I saw the press conference as Dawes intimating that Neeld is responsible for everything else other than effort - "That's on the players" Dawes said. Dawes remarks could therefore be interpreted as placing the onus right back on Neeld to get the team playing winning football. Clark also had some interesting things to say today about Neeld's 5 year 'Rebuild'.

Dawes came across as well spoken and quite smart. Neeld was just being his usual self. His remark about Toumpas and Viney sitting at the back of the back of the coaching box was questionable. "See how hard it is" or words to that effect. Why does he continually make these type of remarks? What's that got to do with winning games of footy? We're suffering here and he's making silly references to how hard his job is? Give us a break.

And how many references to how young and inexperienced we are? Can he just give it a rest? He uses it as a mechanism early and goes back to it at various times. Maybe he should have made a greater effort to keep Rivers and Moloney - there's a bit of experience.

He doesn't seem to be at all upset about losing and he never talks about winning. Does he even know what he's been employed to do? I blame the Board and McLardy as well. They are virtually silent on the subject of winning games. Neeld is here to win games of footy - the rest of it is just filler. He will lose his job unless he wins games.

Good post Macca, I don't agree with all that you said but you sum it up pretty well - I agree Neeld is a poor speaker and his answer to the question (don't remember it off hand but the one where Dawes chimed in) started getting long winded was more of a chop out by Dawes

I am sick of defending Neeld but I think he's gone in to his shell - He says preseason expect something good from this group he gets flogged and when he tries to explain how hard coaching this group is he gets flogged.... Not sure what people really expect Neeld to say these days

If he's positive eveyone calls him a liar - if he's negative everyone says he can't coach... With all the media scrutiny wtf do you say?? I really think making judgements about Neelds coaching from press conferences is pretty limited. It's pretty clear the haters are just gong to hate no matter what is said

In saying all that I think Neeld is struggling, and his messages to the public are not great

I saw the press conference as Dawes intimating that Neeld is responsible for everything else other than effort - "That's on the players" Dawes said. Dawes remarks could therefore be interpreted as placing the onus right back on Neeld to get the team playing winning football. Clark also had some interesting things to say today about Neeld's 5 year 'Rebuild'.

Dawes came across as well spoken and quite smart. Neeld was just being his usual self. His remark about Toumpas and Viney sitting at the back of the back of the coaching box was questionable. "See how hard it is" or words to that effect. Why does he continually make these type of remarks? What's that got to do with winning games of footy? We're copping all these putrid losses here and he's making silly references to how hard his job is? Give us a break.

And how many references to how young and inexperienced we are? Can he just give it a rest? He uses it as a mechanism early and goes back to it at various times. Maybe he should have made a greater effort to keep Rivers and Moloney - there's a bit of experience.

He doesn't seem to be at all upset about losing and he never talks about winning. Does he even know what he's been employed to do? I blame the Board and McLardy as well. They are virtually silent on the subject of winning games. Neeld is here to win games of footy - the rest of it is just filler. He will lose his job unless he wins games.

I agree Macca but with one major distinction - he is employed to win a premiership, not just games. Of course one leads to the other but winning 10-12 games a year will get us nowhere. If the supporters can see improvements/signs of hope that the side is working towards that elusive flag I am sure they would be much more forgiving in cutting some slack to Neeld and the club. But when it seems we've gone (and are going) backwards the fans won't tolerate it. Today was some good signs despite the loss but I bet you Londond to a brick that good work will be outdone in the next fortnight when Freo strangle us next week and make us pay for our turnovers which Richmond didn't do so much and then against Hawthorn who will treat is with contempt again like they have the last 10 or so times we've played them.

As 'Macca' said somewhere on the forum, Neeld should take the Jeans approach. He is not a natural spinner and it's not doing him any favours, say nothing Mark.

I was happy for Dawes to point out that whilst the effort was better we still lost and that's not good enough, back to the track to get better.

Good post Macca, I don't agree with all that you said but you sum it up pretty well - I agree Neeld is a poor speaker and his answer to the question (don't remember it off hand but the one where Dawes chimed in) started getting long winded was more of a chop out by Dawes

I am sick of defending Neeld but I think he's gone in to his shell - He says preseason expect something good from this group he gets flogged and when he tries to explain how hard coaching this group is he gets flogged.... Not sure what people really expect Neeld to say these days

If he's positive eveyone calls him a liar - if he's negative everyone says he can't coach... With all the media scrutiny wtf do you say?? I really think making judgements about Neelds coaching from press conferences is pretty limited. It's pretty clear the haters are just gong to hate no matter what is said

In saying all that I think Neeld is struggling, and his messages to the public are not great

I would prefer it if he was much more careful with his words. You can tell he's not trying to say anything of note but things just keep slipping out. The references to Toumpas and Viney in the back of the box next week is a case in point. Pointless and not related to anything of any importance. A silly distraction. We don't need to hear that stuff.

The supporters are wanting answers on why we have up to 100 less possessions a game and why we don't play an AFL brand of footy. Yet we have to continually hear rhetoric and excuses. One minute he's perhaps being brutally honest about our future and at other times he's talking us up and we're apparently going places. Check out all his quotes for the evidence.

And it's not about hating with me - it never has been. It's about evaluation. I don't dislike the bloke.

Took Port 1 pre season. Mitch Clark will be close to retirement in 5 years.

Yeh and he'll retire with a Premiership medallion

Good post Macca, I don't agree with all that you said but you sum it up pretty well - I agree Neeld is a poor speaker and his answer to the question (don't remember it off hand but the one where Dawes chimed in) started getting long winded was more of a chop out by Dawes

I am sick of defending Neeld but I think he's gone in to his shell - He says preseason expect something good from this group he gets flogged and when he tries to explain how hard coaching this group is he gets flogged.... Not sure what people really expect Neeld to say these days

If he's positive eveyone calls him a liar - if he's negative everyone says he can't coach... With all the media scrutiny wtf do you say?? I really think making judgements about Neelds coaching from press conferences is pretty limited. It's pretty clear the haters are just gong to hate no matter what is said

In saying all that I think Neeld is struggling, and his messages to the public are not great

Neeld is a poor speaker and Dawes comes across more articulate. Actually Dawes took control when Neeld started to falter.

Neeld is struggling quite badly..it's actually horrible to watch.

I would prefer it if he was much more careful with his words. You can tell he's not trying to say anything of note but things just keep slipping out. The references to Toumpas and Viney in the back of the box next week is a case in point. Pointless and not related to anything of any importance. A silly distraction. We don't need to hear that stuff.

The supporters are wanting answers on why we have up to 100 less possessions a game and why we don't play an AFL brand of footy. Yet we have to continually hear rhetoric and excuses. One minute he's perhaps being brutally honest about our future and at other times he's talking us up and we're apparently going places. Check out all his quotes for the evidence.

And it's not about hating with me - it never has been. It's about evaluation. I don't dislike the bloke.

Never meant to imply you're a hater Macca - but there are a lot on here who just wish to bolster their hate campaigns and believe what they want to believe, anyway

In all serious and i've pointed out before I do not like a lot of the things I hear from Neeld. But what does this really tell us about his coaching ability?? Not a whole lot.... Only the players can tell us if he can't communicate properly or they don't believe in him, so i don't like this communication side of the analysis.... you're right to have your opinion though

Lastly about answers for the supporters and perception in the media - i'd rather the team do the talking then everyone loving the coach... Sadly communication and performance have both been [censored] poor so I am not defending Neeld as he needs to improve otherwise he'll go

Maybe there is too much analysis of what's being said?

Neeld is a poor speaker and Dawes comes across more articulate. Actually Dawes took control when Neeld started to falter.

Neeld is struggling quite badly..it's actually horrible to watch.

I agree Soidee

My point was Dawes was supporting Neeld

pressers, especially of losers are worth 2/3 of 3/5 of sfa. That Neeld continues his seemingly detached ( possibly form his immediate reality ) efforts at explanation border on the farcial. Whether pre or post game his mileposts seem terribly off the ( relevant ) map. Dawes has , it would seem a better appreciation of the where and how of our situation. Dont confuse that with this supposed support some would have us beleive he was simply pointing out a clearer reality.

Of course he offer mutterings of being behind his coach..he was after al lsitting next to him fcs.

Its about as believable as a baord beiing fully behind someone .

Believe what you will folks.

This man ( MN) instills in myself no confidence whatsoever. And I so terribly wanted him to.

At some point you simply have to wake up and smell the flowers

Never meant to imply you're a hater Macca - but there are a lot on here who just wish to bolster their hate campaigns and believe what they want to believe, anyway

In all serious and i've pointed out before I do not like a lot of the things I hear from Neeld. But what does this really tell us about his coaching ability?? Not a whole lot.... Only the players can tell us if he can't communicate properly or they don't believe in him, so i don't like this communication side of the analysis.... you're right to have your opinion though

Lastly about answers for the supporters and perception in the media - i'd rather the team do the talking then everyone loving the coach... Sadly communication and performance have both been [censored] poor so I am not defending Neeld as he needs to improve otherwise he'll go

Maybe there is too much analysis of what's being said?

Not if the right questions are asked and the right answers are given ...

These are the sort of questions that could be asked at the press conferences ...

"Why does your team not use a lot of teamwork when you have the ball?" (like other teams do) ... and/or ...

"How do you explain the huge discrepancy in uncontested possessions that your team has in comparison to the opposition?"