Player Spin

[Harrisonrules 273]

As supporters we have been dealt some of the most despicable performances by our players for some 28 games. I can not recall a period of such despicable performances as the six games this year. I go because I support the red and blue. I do not stop following them. It is my club. This set of players are there for their probably short careers. Garland, Trengove, Grimes, Jones and now Dawes try to tell us that they are full of hope, they are behind the coach, they believe in the game plan. I am insulted by that spin. If they are not putting in the required effort then it is because they do not believe what they are saying. The club depends on integrity. In so many ways we are not getting it.

[praha 11,236]

The spin is a PR front. It will never stop, and no one is holding a gun to your head to read or listen to it.

It's there for sponsor relations and to try and keep the brand strong under adversity.

I hate it too but it's no worse than saying nothing at all. You've 20-25 year olds getting in front of millions of people speaking on behalf of a 150-year-old club. Give them a break now I think. Even I am guilty of being a [censored] sometimes.

[TONKA 64]

I don't think those 5 players you listed are the problem

[Wormburner 674]

I don't think those 5 players you listed are the problem

Maybe we should rotate the other 17 players to explain in front of the media and general public why they're not having a dip, might just give them the rocket required....

[DemonWA 3,932]

I watched Garland's interview last night and whilst some of it was from the heart, i cant help but think that they have all been brain washed to an extent becasue they all roll out the same lines and even respond to questions in the same way as Neeld does. Garland said something about Neeld being great for his career personally and how much he had learned over the last few years, which is at odds with what Hells Gates told us priot to his hiatus.

I'd love Aaron Davey to face the media. As the longest serving Demon on the list, i think his words would tell us more about the current vibe of the FD/playing group than the conga line of Neeld-bots we're getting currently

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

I watched Garland's interview last night and whilst some of it was from the heart, i cant help but think that they have all been brain washed to an extent becasue they all roll out the same lines and even respond to questions in the same way as Neeld does. Garland said something about Neeld being great for his career personally and how much he had learned over the last few years, which is at odds with what Hells Gates told us priot to his hiatus.

I'd love Aaron Davey to face the media. As the longest serving Demon on the list, i think his words would tell us more about the current vibe of the FD/playing group than the conga line of Neeld-bots we're getting currently

You're not Mark Latham, are you?

[DemonWA 3,932]

You're not Mark Latham, are you?

Ouch!

[rpfc 28,267]

What do you envision from the players?

Turning on their coach? On each other?

You stick to the company line - not because you are a robot, or a puppet - but because it would be exponentially worse for players to publicly denigrate the coach, the FD, and the club.

Some of you just want the players to agree with your preconceived view of why we are at the place we are at.

Edited May 15, 2013 by rpfc

[DemonWA 3,932]

You stick to the company line - not because you are a robot, or a puppet - but because it would be exponentially worse for players to publicly denigrate the coach, the FD, and the club.

.

Of course, but it doesnt mean we cant botch and moan about it on the interwebz

Its depressing how the company Line has evolved over Neelds tenure.

Originally it was; "the players are coming to grips with a new game plan, it will take time"

then it morphed into "We need to buy into the new game plan, but the wheel will turn soon enough, success could be just around the corner"

then it became "we're training well, but we cannot put it together on game day"

and now its "we just need to see effort"

[old dee 23,782]

Of course, but it doesnt mean we cant botch and moan about it on the interwebz

Its depressing how the company Line has evolved over Neelds tenure.

Originally it was; "the players are coming to grips with a new game plan, it will take time"

then it morphed into "We need to buy into the new game plan, but the wheel will turn soon enough, success could be just around the corner"

then it became "we're training well, but we cannot put it together on game day"

and now its "we just need to see effort"

not one mention of winning

[Guest]

I guess that's why PJ is there. The players may be together for 10 years. The CEO will be there 6 to 12 months. He doesn't have to be anyone's 'mate' as that isn't his brief.

[DeeSpencer 25,497]

Well the Richmond guys eventually rolled round to Terry Wallace to tell him they were sick of him didn't they? Led by their fearless leader Jake King?

And didn't the players try and sack Schwab before Geelong?

Let's wait and see but I'd rather the players take ownership for their own performance first. Garland can't blame a coach for the way he played especially in the first half on the weekend. He was insipid.

[pm24 451]

Harrisonrules, on 15 May 2013 - 07:41, said:

As supporters we have been dealt some of the most despicable performances by our players for some 28 games. I can not recall a period of such despicable performances as the six games this year. I go because I support the red and blue. I do not stop following them. It is my club. This set of players are there for their probably short careers. Garland, Trengove, Grimes, Jones and now Dawes try to tell us that they are full of hope, they are behind the coach, they believe in the game plan. I am insulted by that spin. If they are not putting in the required effort then it is because they do not believe what they are saying. The club depends on integrity. In so many ways we are not getting it.

It is genuinely insulting for you to fail to give any of the the players any respect, and not even acknowledge that they may be being truthful. I find it absolutely disgusting that many on here continue just abuse, abuse and abuse, without giving the players any respect as people. It is the same reason I will NEVER abuse our own players or opposition players, even if I have a dislike for them.

For people to come out and openly suggest that first Garland, then Dawes are just flat out misrepresenting things just to toe the "club line" gives them no respect as people. And in my opinion, those who are suggesting such things, should also be given no respect. Paying a membership, and supporting a club does not given anyone a right to abuse and disrespect a person expressing their opinion.

All members, and even the players are hurting because of the performances. There may be some players hurting less than others, but to suggest that players aren't hurting again is disrespectful to the playing group as people.

Those who keep suggesting that the players are just spinning c*$p and just making excuses, I ask this question...if they didn't believe in what they were saying why would would they make such statements?? Again, I'm guessing the responses would be along the lines of....to protect their own skins, etc etc etc But what would compel someone to come out and mislead the membership when they don't have to. They could sit back and say nothing. To me the players are coming out and standing up for what is happening at the club because they believe in it. I have found that people are more likely to stand up and defend something when they believe in it, as opposed to when they don't.

Why are so many on here so quick to acknowledge the way the club has stuffed up in the past, yet not patient enough for all of that poor work to be fixed. I believe this club has been in a poor state for over a decade, and I think it is unrealistic, bordering on lunacy to believe that it can be turned around in 18 months. Many have suggested that a coach like Paul Roos could fix things, to which I have suggested that Sydney were in a similar position to us in the early 90's when Barassi was brought in to fix things, then Eade took over, and led the club for 7 years (including finals appearances) before Roos took over. Sydney took about 4-5 years to dig themselves out of where they were in the early 90's and return to playing finals football. Why should we expect any different? Look at the history of other clubs who have been in similar positions to where we are at. I think you will struggle to find examples of where a club has returned to being competitive and successful within 18 months.

But back to my main point. It is simply disgusting for so many on here to simply abuse and disrespect the players and those in the club that are genuinely trying to move this club to where it needs to be. People want the club to show integrity......so how do they want that to be represented?

To me, integrity means being consistent in your words and actions, yet people are getting sick of hearing the same old message of "it's going to take time, but we're on the right path". Since Neeld took over, I have seen more consistent messages coming out of the club regarding where it is at then I have for any time in the last decade. The actions or results have not been there and there has been little evidence that the players are performing at the level intended or expected, but does that mean that the players lack integrity, or that the club lacks integrity?? The club has always said it is going to take time. It is taking time. They have clearly explained that their are standards the players are expected to meet. The players may not be consistently meeting those standards at the moment, but how many 20 - 25 year olds are always consistent in their behaviours. There are reasons that those clubs near the top of the ladder are where they are, they have a more mature and experienced group of players.

Some people are being blinded by anger, and frustration when looking at the club. Take a step back, take a rational look at the playing list (which isn't great at the moment), and think, when compared to other lists, where should this club be sitting on the ladder?.

Some food for thought is an article from today's Age comparing the performance of the bulldogs and us......

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/perceptions-punish-demons-but-dogs-are-none-too-rosy-20130514-2jklt.html

We are in no better state than the bulldogs, GWS and GC in terms of development (though we are arguably behind GC now). This club is rebuilding, is starting afresh, and we have some good young talent. We just need to develop them properly. So rather than disrespecting the players, and those in the club that are trying to bring this club success, how about we actually respect them as people, and for once try and believe the players when the come out and publicly state their views. To me, the most recent comments from Garland and Dawes have been some of the most compelling evidence that the bulk of the players are behind Neeld and Co. Maybe we should be giving the benefit of the doubt and start trusting the comments of the players, no matter how frustrating things are at the moment.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

Well argued, pm24.

You've even made me re-think my pessimism about the Coach. I've been patiently behind Neeld since he started, but following the Gold Coast game I started questioning my support for him. You've got me back on board.

Note: My only quibble with your article is where you say we've been in a poor state for over a decade. It's a lot longer than that.

[pm24 451]

Well argued, pm24.

You've even made me re-think my pessimism about the Coach. I've been patiently behind Neeld since he started, but following the Gold Coast game I started questioning my support for him. You've got me back on board.

Note: My only quibble with your article is where you say we've been in a poor state for over a decade. It's a lot longer than that.

I'd agree with that. I think it's been since the Daniher era that we've had problems from a culture perspective. I remember reading David Schwartz's book "All bets are off" and being in shock at some of the things that the players got away with, all with the clubs knowledge.

[jazza 1,323]

same as above

been saying it on this site although not as well written as yourself

most posters think a sacking will be the answer

i believe supporting the FD is the answer

Edited May 15, 2013 by jazza

[pm24 451]

I actually believe that the club is only now doing a proper rebuild of the club list and culture and putting in place standards that have been developed thoroughly thanks to the experience of guys from successful clubs like Misson, Craig and Neeld.

I think we are actually seeing the changes we have been needing for a long time, but it's just taking time and requires patience which many of us are understandably running short of. We all expected it to happen under Bailey, but there was never the required financial support under Bailey for it to become successful, nor was their arguably the right people. We may not have all the right people now, but we are putting the money where it needs to be, and have personnel from successful clubs who are well regarded in the AFL as being generally successful. I believe that if the current core FD personnel remain in tact for another year or two, that in next year or two we will start to see the signs of success we have been craving.

[Wormburner 674]

I agree with what you are saying about respect of the players as individuals.

Yes there has been a cultural issue in this club. Yes we have a very inexperianced list and coaching team.

However, that is not an excuse for the players lack of effort, intensity and passion to win. The other 17 or so players have looked so disinterested almost every week bar the one qtr against GWS, where we actually played as a team. The only ones that shown that they actually want to be there are the 5 - 6 players who are racking up the 20+ touches each match.

IMO this team is only going to improve when the other 17 passengers pull their finger out and be accountable for their actions.

[Bimbo 940]

Well put pm24.

It is worth remembering Barassi also had a 5 year rebuild as the saviour of MFC from 1981 - 1985. His win/loss ratio for that time was a less than spectacular 30%. After he left Northey took over and was able to take a much improved list to the finals in his second year.

It hopefully will not take as long again, but the team is starting from a long way back.

[P-man 13,366]

pm, as rational as the argument you present may be, there is no way that you or anyone can justify the lack of effort on the part of the players. They looked defeated against the Suns within the first five minutes of the match. Asking supporters to be patient on this most basic fundamental of the game is asking too much. They've been patient regarding the "rebuild of a rebuild", they've been patient on the "development phase" being hammered into their collective skulls, but patience only extends so far.

When the headless chooks can no longer be bothered, the coach's time is done. It's over mate, it's a matter of when, not if. The argument now is who takes over this mess.

[DemonWA 3,932]

pm, as rational as the argument you present may be, there is no way that you or anyone can justify the lack of effort on the part of the players. They looked defeated against the Suns within the first five minutes of the match. Asking supporters to be patient on this most basic fundamental of the game is asking too much. They've been patient regarding the "rebuild of a rebuild", they've been patient on the "development phase" being hammered into their collective skulls, but patience only extends so far.

When the headless chooks can no longer be bothered, the coach's time is done. It's over mate, it's a matter of when, not if. The argument now is who takes over this mess.

Agreed. When Bailey's had a go at a rebuild it was clear he was rebuilding but you could see where he was headed, you could see the big picture. The team played with flair and youthful confidence which i havent seen since he was sacked. Yes his game plan was not perfect and his team were inconsistant. Perhaps the reality was that his side was too young to win every week and Neeld is pointing out to us now.

Neeld says we are rebuilding again, but what are we building towards? What is the big picture? The Hardest team to play against wouldnt have rolled over in the first couple of minutes against the gold coast?! When he is asked about what he wants his game style to look like he hangs his hat on guys that are still high on the opertunity to play AFL footy like Viney, M Jones & Terlich. Neeld doesnt have Jurrah and Wonnamirri running around the attacking 50, but he has Clark and Dawes. The results he is presiding over are a disgrace and its not the scoreboard that is the most worrying part, its the way they are playing - passionless, emotionless, & no flair or confidence - rubbish

[old dee 23,782]

Agreed. When Bailey's had a go at a rebuild it was clear he was rebuilding but you could see where he was headed, you could see the big picture. The team played with flair and youthful confidence which i havent seen since he was sacked. Yes his game plan was not perfect and his team were inconsistant. Perhaps the reality was that his side was too young to win every week and Neeld is pointing out to us now.

Neeld says we are rebuilding again, but what are we building towards? What is the big picture? The Hardest team to play against wouldnt have rolled over in the first couple of minutes against the gold coast?! When he is asked about what he wants his game style to look like he hangs his hat on guys that are still high on the opertunity to play AFL footy like Viney, M Jones & Terlich. Neeld doesnt have Jurrah and Wonnamirri running around the attacking 50, but he has Clark and Dawes. The results he is presiding over are a disgrace and its not the scoreboard that is the most worrying part, its the way they are playing - passionless, emotionless, & no flair or confidence - rubbish

I have gone through numerous comments by players, MN, line coaches. Hundreds of words.

Not once do the words win or winning appear.

No one in our player and FD appear to have this as an objective.

What the hell is our club doing?

Have we sunk so low that we don't even consider winning now.

Do the players think that the required level is anything but winning.

My god we are truly in a hole.

[DemonWA 3,932]

I have gone through numerous comments by players, MN, line coaches. Hundreds of words.

Not once do the words win or winning appear.

No one in our player and FD appear to have this as an objective.

What the hell is our club doing?

Have we sunk so low that we don't even consider winning now.

Do the players think that the required level is anything but winning.

My god we are truly in a hole.

it is very sad olddee. Not long ago we spoke about the second half fade out aganst the Hawks (rd 2 2011) being a low point for the team. These days we would have said the first half was a positive and the second half fade out could be put down to us being a young side who have lapses in concerntration!

[pm24 451]

pm, as rational as the argument you present may be, there is no way that you or anyone can justify the lack of effort on the part of the players. They looked defeated against the Suns within the first five minutes of the match. Asking supporters to be patient on this most basic fundamental of the game is asking too much. They've been patient regarding the "rebuild of a rebuild", they've been patient on the "development phase" being hammered into their collective skulls, but patience only extends so far.

When the headless chooks can no longer be bothered, the coach's time is done. It's over mate, it's a matter of when, not if. The argument now is who takes over this mess.

I think it can be argued that the lack of effort on the part of the players has been there since before Neeld. Case in point, the fact that the team under Bailey was regarded as playing "bruise free" or soft football. There may have been effort on the offensive side, but not defensively. With everything I have said, I am in no way suggesting that the effort of the players is acceptable. This thread was set up to discredit the players by commenting on the "player spin". My my point was that to simply disrespect what an individual player says by labelling it spin is just insulting.

I then went on to point out that I think the club has shown more integrity through this process then they have in a long time. This thread is not about whether Neeld should stay or go. I have only addressed to things that stood out from the original post which in my mind were misplaced. They were, suggesting the players and club had no integrity and that anything the players said was simply media spin.

[Red N Blue Society 165]

The spin is a PR front. It will never stop, and no one is holding a gun to your head to read or listen to it.

It's there for sponsor relations and to try and keep the brand strong under adversity.

I hate it too but it's no worse than saying nothing at all. You've 20-25 year olds getting in front of millions of people speaking on behalf of a 150-year-old club. Give them a break now I think. Even I am guilty of being a [censored] sometimes.

Great comments here. Exactly!