I'm happy to defer to Dave Misson's expertise when it comes to AFL player fitness.

So am I, although interestingly, Trengove says in this article that fitness wasn't the issue in Saturday's second-half fade-out.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-04-14/not-a-fitness-issue-trengove

I appluad(ed) the recruitment of Terlich, Jones, Magner, Rodan, Byrnes, Pedersen, and Gillies in lieu of speculative kids because we don't need more talented kids - we need to develop the ones we do have the right way. And having bigger bodies take the brunt of this nonsense is better for our future.

Agree with the need for bigger bodies but you just can't justify the recruitment of senior players that are playing at Casey. The bigger bodies won't really help us if their playing at Casey. I would rather draft young talent (with potential) then senior players that will never fit into a good side. You can never have enough talent/potential!

And if the board did sack Neeld then they will show how gutless they are (I don't think they will ) they have been told how bad the football department was and what is needed to fix it, they then agreed and signed off on it so as I have said I don't think they will.

If Neeld can't coach and is losing the players it would be gutless to sit on their hands and do nothing about it. I would rather us admit a mistake in coach choice and find and get a more suitable replacement than put our heads in the sand to save face.

Inactivity will kill us. How much more can the supporters take? Many are jumping off and more worrying where are our future supporters going to come from- who in their right mind would force their kids to support this team? We need to start playing 4 quarters and if a change in coach will achieve that we must do it regardless of how it makes us look.

Move heaven and earth MFC and do something bold to turn this shite around!

Agree with the need for bigger bodies but you just can't justify the recruitment of senior players that are playing at Casey. The bigger bodies won't really help us if their playing at Casey. I would rather draft young talent (with potential) then senior players that will never fit into a good side. You can never have enough talent/potential!

At their best they won't be at Casey. Jones, Byrnes and Terlich are in the AFL. Magner should be in the AFL. Gillies is injured, Pedersen got dropped for his indiscretion but is back, Rodan has been down.

These are not world beaters - but we didn't pay world beating prices: Picks 52 (Jones), 63 & Gysberts (Pedersen), 68 (Terlich), 88 (Rodan), two FA signings (Byrnes & Gillies), and a rookie selection (Magner).

What kind of 'young talent' are we to get with those picks?

And why are we so intent on surrounding our 'talented youth' with more (in numbers) 'talented youth'?

You say that you can never have enough talent or potential but I think you are just mistaking the MFC for a team with an established set of experienced leaders that can absorb so much youth.

We did the right thing by our kids and I hope that they have the space necessary to develop and come into the AFL when they are ready.

If Neeld can't coach and is losing the players it would be gutless to sit on their hands and do nothing about it. I would rather us admit a mistake in coach choice and find and get a more suitable replacement than put our heads in the sand to save face.

Inactivity will kill us. How much more can the supporters take? Many are jumping off and more worrying where are our future supporters going to come from- who in their right mind would force their kids to support this team? We need to start playing 4 quarters and if a change in coach will achieve that we must do it regardless of how it makes us look.

Move heaven and earth MFC and do something bold to turn this shite around!

Well I think the club knows if Neeld is able to coach not the panic merchants who post on forum sites who think they know better. As for people dropping of then they should grow some balls and stick with the club!!

After topping up with readymade recruits in the off season, our average losing margin this year is 107 points. Add to that, some of our most talented players appear want out of the club at a time when the competition has embraced free agency. Neeld has been a huge mistake whichever way you look at it. Every minute he is there is hurting the club.

Well I think the club knows if Neeld is able to coach not the panic merchants who post on forum sites who think they know better. As for people dropping of then they should grow some balls and stick with the club!!

Alright Don. Tell the members who have been through a life time of crap already to grow some balls. We are the most "ballsy" supporters out there, but for some of us it is coming towards breaking point. We will see what the club think about Neeld if he can't get us to play 4 quarterrs against GWS.

Well I think the club knows if Neeld is able to coach not the panic merchants who post on forum sites who think they know better. As for people dropping of then they should grow some balls and stick with the club!!

Given our playing record, our litany of stuffed up draft picks and our recent coaching history (just to name a few), I'm not certain just what the club does know!

And further, given the above, people on forums such as this are more than entitled to state their opinion.

Alright Don. Tell the members who have been through a life time of crap already to grow some balls. We are the most "ballsy" supporters out there, but for some of us it is coming towards breaking point. We will see what the club think about Neeld if he can't get us to play 4 quarterrs against GWS.

I have been a supporter and a cheer squad member in the 70's so I have seen some good times and bad and I still supported them and will not stop doing that no matter what happens, in my opinion the football department is being run the way it should be and it will take time for the proper development of young players so this club has continued success.

Given our playing record, our litany of stuffed up draft picks and our recent coaching history (just to name a few), I'm not certain just what the club does know!

And further, given the above, people on forums such as this are more than entitled to state their opinion.

And so am I.

After topping up with readymade recruits in the off season, our average losing margin this year is 107 points. Add to that, some of our most talented players appear want out of the club at a time when the competition has embraced free agency. Neeld has been a huge mistake whichever way you look at it. Every minute he is there is hurting the club.

Sensationalist bullsh!t. With not a skerrick of evidence.

Could you possibly be any more negative?

After topping up with readymade recruits in the off season, our average losing margin this year is 107 points. Add to that, some of our most talented players appear want out of the club at a time when the competition has embraced free agency. Neeld has been a huge mistake whichever way you look at it. Every minute he is there is hurting the club.

No every minute Bailey was there was hurting the club

I'm happy to defer to Dave Misson's expertise when it comes to AFL player fitness.

I expect many of the keyboard experts here couldn't even do 10 push ups.

It's baffling that our football club's onfield success is inversely related to the standard of our fitness facilities and expertise post since N. Daniher.

I have been a supporter and a cheer squad member in the 70's so I have seen some good times and bad and I still supported them and will not stop doing that no matter what happens, in my opinion the football department is being run the way it should be and it will take time for the proper development of young players so this club has continued success.

Meanwhile we have a coach who can't get our players to try for 4 quarters. That should be the first non negotiable when playing Aussie rules and Neeld fails big time at that, and whatever the reasons behind that (I do feel for Neeld because I believe his heart is in the right place) the fact remains that for this playing group, he is not a fit.

Now be proactive and rectify the situation MFC or risk this club getting into a rut so deep that it can't get out of it.

all the other teams that may be 0-4 this weekend are competitive with bright presents and futures

We are a basket case

Since when has that stopped the media giving it to them though??

Meanwhile we have a coach who can't get our players to try for 4 quarters. That should be the first non negotiable when playing Aussie rules and Neeld fails big time at that, and whatever the reasons behind that (I do feel for Neeld because I believe his heart is in the right place) the fact remains that for this playing group, he is not a fit.

Now be proactive and rectify the situation MFC or risk this club getting into a rut so deep that it can't get out of it.

we will agree to disagree then.

3 rounds in, pretty much a new team, gonna take some time

Meanwhile we have a coach who can't get our players to try for 4 quarters. That should be the first non negotiable when playing Aussie rules and Neeld fails big time at that, and whatever the reasons behind that (I do feel for Neeld because I believe his heart is in the right place) the fact remains that for this playing group, he is not a fit.

Now be proactive and rectify the situation MFC or risk this club getting into a rut so deep that it can't get out of it.

I've just jumped in on this convo - but you can't just blame the coach.

The MFC lacks leaders, experience and quality on the park - you name it the MFC dosen't have it at the moment

This doesn't just develop overnight - Sacking the coach will not make our problems disappear

Well I think the club knows if Neeld is able to coach not the panic merchants who post on forum sites who think they know better. As for people dropping of then they should grow some balls and stick with the club!!

Really ? Right now Neeld himself would be questioning whether he's the right man for the job. I've got no doubt the club is too.

The point is that under bailey we still managed to win 8 and a half games and play attractive football. Why not tread slowly in a new club and build the fitness base and take 3 years to weed out the slackers. Bailey deliberately didn't over train as he had a list of 18 year olds whose bodies it was deemed would not stand the rigors and adjustments were made. Luke Ball when he first started at St Kilda developed OP when Grant Thomas insisted he do a full pre season, note Jack Trengove was so fatigued last year he could hardly run. Don't overlook why the fitness base was low, as that was part of the longer term plan. Why did MN sack the leadership group, why install 2 rookie captains, why sack all the coaches (except Royal ) and the leadership group then ignore or discard all the footy intellect accumulated and start afresh?

It was arrogant, naive and in retrospect a massive error to rebuild again. If it was just about fitness I could accept the changes but it is also about man management, management style, game plan and vision. Look at what Ken Hinkley has done at Port and how he achieved it. They too were not fit enough but all their out of contract players have stayed on. MN does it by the numbers and is so full of himself he casts of those who don't do it his way and for that he will pay the price.

Older Dee, I'm absolutely with you and may I say several of my mates are exactly on the same page. It doesn't mean Neeld has done nothing right, but if you carry a bucket with holes in it, I can tell you it is always half empty and will never be half full.

And so am I.

Yes. But without being labelled as "panic merchants who post on forum sites who think they know better"

I've just jumped in on this convo - but you can't just blame the coach.

The MFC lacks leaders, experience and quality on the park - you name it the MFC dosen't have it at the moment

This doesn't just develop overnight - Sacking the coach will not make our problems disappear

No because he created the lack of leadership problem. We will now lack a significant leadership team for a minimum of 5 years

I think Neeld knows exactly where we were at and where we are at, it's us fans that are not prepared to listen.

Compare the Demons with the Hawks.

Captains

Hodge (205 games, 144 goals, Norm smith medal (2008), All-Australian (2005, 2008), Premiership (2008), top 3 in club best and fairest (2005 - 2008)

Grimes + Trengove (56+61=117 games (combined), 5 + 31=36 goals (combined), both NAB AFL Rising Star nominee,...

That is Hodge has played 88 more games than Grime and Trenners COMBINED, and kicked 108 more gaols than both of them, etc... And as Mark Neeld recently said Grimes and Trenners are the "best leaders we have at the club at the moment".

Best players On weekend

Hawthorn - Hodge (205 games/144 goals), Franklin (164/531), Shiels (67/19), Birchall (155,19), Stratton (55,1), Gibson (127,2), Roughead (162, 300), Burgoyne (224,209) = Average for Hawks best is 144 games and 153 goals per player, 8 players in best.

Melbourne - N Jones (138/69), M Jones (3/0), Grimes (56/5), Sylvia (141/122)= Average for Demons best is 84 games and 49 goals per player, 4 players in best.

That is, the best for Hawthorn averaged 60 more games than our best, and 104 goals on average more. They had 1 player under 100 game in their 8 best, we had 2 under 100 games including our captian and a player with 3 games experience.

Summary

Neeld has coached these men for 25 AFL games with a woefully underdeveloped list relative to the teams he is charged with performing against. take Average player age or Average player games or top 50 players awards, etc... and on all these metrics we were behind the average in the AFL PRIOR to Mark's arrival. To assume a miracle surge is to fundamentally ignore the realities of the competition we are in.

Monday analysis: Little wins emerge

When we arrived at the footy club, it was certainly under the instruction to rebuild the entire football department from the ground up,” he said.

This from the club website article, this is what they are doing now.

No because he created the lack of leadership problem. We will now lack a significant leadership team for a minimum of 5 years

Except for James MacDonald (which is bailey era) name me one player who was a real leader that has departed the club?

THe only I can think of is Rivers and he wasn't even in the leadership group - please clarify this statement