In 2010 HT started a thread on ruckmen and necessary sized ruckmen.

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19760-ruckmen/?hl=jamar#entry311319

I contributed...

"Jamar, Johnson, Meesen et al 200cms isnt big enough for tap dominance and if you cant achieve that then you need another string - mobility, marking etc. 200cms is nowadays good for a forward see Tippet, Fitzpatrick, sheeeeeeat Watts is 196!"

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/19760-ruckmen/?hl=jamar#entry311319

Maybe stating the obvious - I dont know what the stats say (total team hit outs arent that disproportionate vs effective hit outs) but my impression was that Jamar was smashed on Friday night particularly in the centre circle. Ryder jumped over him. Jamar at least tried to jump in the ruck (novel idea) whereas against North he just stood there.

There seems to have been two innovations in ruck - the preemptive jump which effectively knocks the opponent out of the way and in response the non jump in response to the preemptive jump - this last technique was Jamar's main trick. The views of ruck specialists please.

I reckon he just isnt big enough anymore and he doesnt offer enough around the ground or below his knees. Rucks like Max Bailey and Pyke (Swans) get a run and kick in elite teams. Pederson (193cm), Sellar (196cm) - not much of an option as a "chop out".

When we consistently get 20 goals kicked against us ruck is one place where we can start a contest on closer to equal terms. Time for Gawn and Pencil to earn their salt.

Gawn would be in the top 5 ruckman in the league if it wasnt for injuries, hes a massive talent, you just have to look at the stats he gets in VFL games, he just needs some luck.

Jamars form is a huge part of the problem, we are getting smashed in the centre, which sometimes perplexes me because we have our best players in Jones ,Grimes and Viney there as well.

excuse my ignorance who is our ruck coach? i do hope we have one...

excuse my ignorance who is our ruck coach? i do hope we have one...

Crackers Keenan.

I wonder if burn in hell would come back and share his views now on Jamar and Johnson.....

At the moment it looks as though Gawn or Spencer might be the back up for Jamar, but they are still very raw and inexperienced. Jamar is a shadow of his 2010 form which was when that thread started.

Nowadays you need two ruckmen who can go forward and clunk a mark. We have Clark up forward and will have Dawes who can give Jamar a chop out.

The importance of Naitanui and Kreuzer I highlighted in that thread I still stand-by. Athletic, can go forward and can more than ruck. Hard to find.

Gawn would be in the top 5 ruckman in the league if it wasnt for injuries, hes a massive talent, you just have to look at the stats he gets in VFL games, he just needs some luck.

he is a star in the making, injuries permitting.

seriously who is our ruck coach? im now getting worried that you are serious and that crackers is really still our ruck coach

seriously who is our ruck coach? im now getting worried that you are serious and that crackers is really still our ruck coach

Carl Ditterich.

I still think that not snaring Hannath as a young up and coming ruckmen when we had the chance will hurt us. He was someone we could have played straight away and had the makings of a good ruckman. Freo have a world of talent at ruck and he is on the verge of making their team. Would surely do better than Russian, who has been less than ordinary in the first two weeks

Crackers Keenan.

Crackers who? Surely you joke!

Gawn would be in the top 5 ruckman in the league if it wasnt for injuries, hes a massive talent, you just have to look at the stats he gets in VFL games, he just needs some luck.

Not sure on what basis you can say that.

The best we can say is in his 2 games he showed promise.

Your comment has no basis in fact.

Newton had fantastic VFL stats, Bate ran second in the Liston trophy.

Did they become the fifth best in their AFL positions?

Of course not.

I would gladly swap Sylvia for Hannath. Gawn and Hannath would be a fantastic combination

I don't understand this idea of promoting Gawn at the moment. There is no way he is match fit. Give him some more time at Casey. Spencer has to be the go to man.

I don't understand this idea of promoting Gawn at the moment. There is no way he is match fit. Give him some more time at Casey. Spencer has to be the go to man.

Frank Spencer?

Frank Spencer?

The cat did whoop whoops in the baked beans...

Talk about clutching at straws, Hannath is so unproven its not funny.

Yeah Gawn may be good, but let him dominate for 6 weeks at Casey before pretending he's ready.

Would prefer to give spencer 1st look as he has had an uninterupted preseason has he not?

Crackers Keenan.

That explains it.

What a right Royal mess.

it seems we do not have any ruck coach at the club, that is really poor. every other club has one. jamar looked like he really didnt want to be out there the other night. explains a hell of a lot, he has gone backwards fast. pathetic really that we havent got someone to help teach our ruckmen.

Frank Spencer?

I used to watch that cringe show and lust after his missus.

Gawn on one leg would be better than what Jamar has given us for 3 years.

Put Spencer on the bench until they both get a bit of match fitness.

At least they are both tall and agile enough to palm the ball to anywhere except their feet.