No we're not. There are 4 teams below us, 3 quite a bit below us (North, GWS and Richmond). We're averaging 58 per game, compared with Collingwood (58.2) and Geelong 58.4) and are in a group of around 8 teams on very similar tackle counts.

We had one disastrous game (Essendon, 35 tackles), but apart from that, have been at or better than league averages.

We have any number of issues, but our tackle count isn't one of them.

We also see a hell of alot less of the ball than those teams. I wouldn't be so quick to tick off our tackling pressure after winning that stat against GWS and Brisbane (against whom we had 118 less possessions).

Round 1 we lose by 79 points with 81 less possessions. We lose the tackle count 62 to 54.

Round 2 we lose by 148 points with 190 less possessions. We lose the tackle count 61 to 35.

Round 3 we lose by 94 points with 65 less possessions. We lose the tackle count 78 to 56.

Against AFL level opposition, the hardest team to play against has been smashed in this area.

I'll make an educated guess and say I have probably been supporting MFC longer than most people who contribute to threads such as this one - I am happy to concede there are a few with longer standing credentials, however!

It hurts to see good supporters feeling they have to call it quits.

Let me just say one thing - hang in there, no matter how tough it gets, the right forces will win eventually - 'nil carborundum bastardum'!

I take issue. Theres a difference between calling it "quits" so to speak... and just not being botherered with subjecting oneself to dissapointment and pain.

I will always support Melbourne, indeed be a member, whilst such a Melbourne based club exists, but I really just cant be stuffed with the current incarnation of this club.

Ive never seen a premiership in all the time ive been a Dee, and thats since feb 1965. We have been truly competivie for very few seasons in that time..

Our modern history is deplorable. Our current ability is laughable.

I suggest the epitome of 'denial' is the MFC.

Football is a long-term strategy game.

Every club goes through cycles. We are at the bottom. This will take a while and there is no quick fix or quick results.

With Bailey we had an aging list, not alot of tallent coming through and I was struggling to see any type of strategy.

At least with Neeld he has got rid of the dead weight, getting some young tallent through, new leadership team, new captains and drafted some experienced, premership winning players

What isnt sustainable is going through coaches ever second year

We have been totally uncompetitive under MN - no flair, no improvement - there is nothing to hang your hat on so far, and that s the issue - we have gone backwards & that is almost unbelievable

Long-term results > short-term results

I take issue. Theres a difference between calling it "quits" so to speak... and just not being botherered with subjecting oneself to dissapointment and pain.

I will always support Melbourne, indeed be a member, whilst such a Melbourne based club exists, but I really just cant be stuffed with the current incarnation of this club.

Ive never seen a premiership in all the time ive been a Dee, and thats since feb 1965. We have been truly competivie for very few seasons in that time..

Our modern history is deplorable. Our current ability is laughable.

I suggest the epitome of 'denial' is the MFC.

Please don't take offence BB - I fully understand your position - I'm just stupid enough to want to keep going!

Please don't take offence BB - I fully understand your position - I'm just stupid enough to want to keep going!

have a beer and wave a 64 pennant for me then

I wouldn't be so quick to tick off our tackling pressure ...

I was doing nothing more than responding to a claim that we're bottom 2 for tackling in the league. Which isn't true.

We've got three more games against development clubs and if we win all of them that's 4 wins. We've won one game against non development clubs in Neeld's reign and our losing margin so far this year against non development clubs is 87 points. 87. Hell, that 14 goals 3 behinds per game. That's hard to comprehend.

On what basis do you think we can win 3 more games against non development clubs? It's a very hard proposition to accept.

The value bet says it won't happen.

What I'm saying is that within our playing group I believe we have enough talent that if we competed hard enough we SHOULD be able to win 6 more games this year. We SHOULD be able to beat the expansion clubs, and we SHOULD be competitive enough against the likes of Brisbane, Bulldogs, Saints that we get over the line in a few of those games. That said, I don't disagree with you. The way our players appear to have been directed to play, and the amount of intensity that is emanating from the playing group means that we won't win 6 more (in fact on current form we won't win another game IMO). I blame the coaching staff for the lack of intensity because you rarely see it from a playing group that is well coached. But, rather than sacking a coach so early in a season, why don't we give him an ultimatum that he needs to achieve these 6 wins by seasons end. See if he's got any tricks whatsoever? He doesn't look like he does to me...but we may just help our brand a tiny bit by giving him a chance and being very clear about what is required.

Indecently it's about time everyone affiliated with the MFC started talking and measuring in terms of wins, not 'experience' and 'development'. These things should be built in the process of aiming to win. The development talk is a garbage cop out used by cowards and for those of us who enjoy watching competitive people go out and compete, the idea that we are apparently not 100% focused on winning every week sickens me.

I was doing nothing more than responding to a claim that we're bottom 2 for tackling in the league. Which isn't true.

Fair enough. You however did go a bit further in saying that the tackle count was not one of our problems when the numbers tell a different story.

What I'm saying is that within our playing group I believe we have enough talent that if we competed hard enough we SHOULD be able to win 6 more games this year. We SHOULD be able to beat the expansion clubs, and we SHOULD be competitive enough against the likes of Brisbane, Bulldogs, Saints that we get over the line in a few of those games. That said, I don't disagree with you. The way our players appear to have been directed to play, and the amount of intensity that is emanating from the playing group means that we won't win 6 more (in fact on current form we won't win another game IMO). I blame the coaching staff for the lack of intensity because you rarely see it from a playing group that is well coached. But, rather than sacking a coach so eion is arly in a season, why don't we give him an ultimatum that he needs to achieve these 6 wins by seasons end. See if he's got any tricks whatsoever? He doesn't look like he does to me...but we may just help our brand a tiny bit by giving him a chance and being very clear about what is required.

Indecently it's about time everyone affiliated with the MFC started talking and measuring in terms of wins, not 'experience' and 'development'. These things should be built in the process of aiming to win. The development talk is a garbage cop out used by cowards and for those of us who enjoy watching competitive people go out and compete, the idea that we are apparently not 100% focused on winning every week sickens me.

There's no point in giving MN any ultimatums Rufus - the situation is well past that, as you should have realised from reading posts on this thread - it's not pretty, but MN has to go now.

This week I think will be the end of Neeld.

This game has the potential to be a 200 point plus beating.

I am scared.

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

Give it a rest

This week I think will be the end of Neeld.

This game has the potential to be a 200 point plus beating.

I am scared.

Do you own a microwave?

I doubt there is a loss of 200 on the table. I have a good feeling the boys are slowly warming up. There will be more fight in them this week, and the following weeks.

Do we get a trophy for sacking four coaches in a row mid-season?

Fat chance 200 though, Carlton aren't that good. 100 maybe - not that it would be good - but no chance they're a 50 point better side than Essendon.

Yay more neeld bashing.

This week I think will be the end of Neeld.

This game has the potential to be a 200 point plus beating.

I am scared.

this has now become a joke!!

This week I think will be the end of Neeld.

This game has the potential to be a 200 point plus beating.

I am scared.

200 point loss......mate, Carlton are ok but they're not that good. The've got a dwarf forward line that might kick a few goals but they won't kicked 35ish.....sheesh.....

There's no point in giving MN any ultimatums Rufus - the situation is well past that, as you should have realised from reading posts on this thread - it's not pretty, but MN has to go now.

So it seems the players hate Neeld and want him gone. From watching the way we have played under Neeld it seems apparent that he's probably out of his depth and either way you can't imagine he'd last past the end of this year anyway.

Once the Neeld situation is sorted, it's the understatement of the century to say we need some real guidance. From what I've been hearing, over the last 5 or so years we've had a playing group that have grown tired of 1) a soft coach whom they ruled the roost over 2) a CEO who they perceived was trying to drive the senior players out of the game and now 3) A hard coach who demanded professional standards. Once these things happen at the MFC I don't believe there is much choice but to move those people on, however at some point in time the playing group do need to understand that it's not always going to go the way they like it. These things must happen at other clubs and other clubs players get on with it.

I personally believe we need to either bring in a successful senior coach (if we possibly can) or alternatively a retired 'great' of the game. I just get the gut feeling that a number of our players may have thought well Bailey and Neeld were only ordinary players by AFL standards, so who are they to come in here and tell me how to ply my trade. I know it hasn't necessarily worked with Voss at Brisbane but then again that playing group exhibits significantly more competitiveness than ours week in week out.

Do we get a trophy for sacking four coaches in a row mid-season?

Fat chance 200 though, Carlton aren't that good. 100 maybe - not that it would be good - but no chance they're a 50 point better side than Essendon.

We damn well should.

Maybe a retrospective one in a few years time?

Richmond early 00's or any year in the 90's could give us a run for a money....

Is this another "troll", ash? There's a 57 page thread on Neeld mate, in case you missed it.

So it seems the players hate Neeld and want him gone. From watching the way we have played under Neeld it seems apparent that he's probably out of his depth and either way you can't imagine he'd last past the end of this year anyway.

Once the Neeld situation is sorted, it's the understatement of the century to say we need some real guidance. From what I've been hearing, over the last 5 or so years we've had a playing group that have grown tired of 1) a soft coach whom they ruled the roost over 2) a CEO who they perceived was trying to drive the senior players out of the game and now 3) A hard coach who demanded professional standards. Once these things happen at the MFC I don't believe there is much choice but to move those people on, however at some point in time the playing group do need to understand that it's not always going to go the way they like it. These things must happen at other clubs and other clubs players get on with it.

I personally believe we need to either bring in a successful senior coach (if we possibly can) or alternatively a retired 'great' of the game. I just get the gut feeling that a number of our players may have thought well Bailey and Neeld were only ordinary players by AFL standards, so who are they to come in here and tell me how to ply my trade. I know it hasn't necessarily worked with Voss at Brisbane but then again that playing group exhibits significantly more competitiveness than ours week in week out.

It's a bit tough to say the players 'hate' MN, however it does appear he is out of his depth. It's also pushing it to say the players wanted to rule the roost, but it could be true that they felt too much interference from other areas. One would hope the players wanted a professional coach. I'm not convinced the coach needs to be a premiership player, or even a top player, but the coach certainly needs people skills and a sound understanding of the modern game as in the Geelong style of play, which many clubs have adopted in one form or another.

This thread is a joke. It consists of loads of "loyal" MFC supporters potting our coach with no regard to the crap situation he's inherited and the huge amount of effort he's putting in to turn around our boat. The cheap and uninformed pot shots, bogus claims of Player disenfranchisement, moronic pop psychology on the coach... total bollocks and massively disrespectful to those trying there best to fix our club.

No one is offering a solution, no one is complaining that he's had to bring in ANOTHER couple of newbies (Kent, Spencer) because our list is so average yet everyone is out for Neeld's blood.

Bunch of [censored] wits.

Throughout all my years following the club, I've looked forward to the week ahead. Optimism made me believe we could put in a good showing, despite the opposition and our relative positions on the ladder. I even remember the days when we'd expect to win. For perhaps the first time that I can recall, I now enter each weekend full of dread. It's embarrassing and deflating - and that's before we've even played! I'll be surprised if we can get within 100 points of Carlton this week. For that reason alone, something has to be done and quickly. I never thought I'd lose faith in this once great club. I'm on the verge.

This thread is a joke. It consists of loads of "loyal" MFC supporters potting our coach with no regard to the crap situation he's inherited and the huge amount of effort he's putting in to turn around our boat. The cheap and uninformed pot shots, bogus claims of Player disenfranchisement, moronic pop psychology on the coach... total bollocks and massively disrespectful to those trying there best to fix our club.

No one is offering a solution, no one is complaining that he's had to bring in ANOTHER couple of newbies (Kent, Spencer) because our list is so average yet everyone is out for Neeld's blood.

Bunch of [censored] wits.

Help yourself - go back and read all the posts from #1 - you might begin to understand the issue.